Why the US Navy will be destroyed in Hormuz

^ Forget using cold facts to these people.
To them, Iran having missiles is all that counts. Yes, missiles. They can beat the strongest navy in the world (by a long shot) because they have missiles. Facts don't matter, they have missiles.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Oh you cant say nothing about killing innocent palestinians... And maybe something about this: news.sky.com...

Oh yes, those evil bastard from hamas... They dont let you take their homes and land without fight...

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
^ Forget using cold facts to these people.
To them, Iran having missiles is all that counts. Yes, missiles. They can beat the strongest navy in the world (by a long shot) because they have missiles. Facts don't matter, they have missiles.

Jesus... Man, its not about some misilles... Its about level of preparedness, will to fight and equipment...
And yes, Iran can fight long time with U.S. Im not saying that they will win or destroy entire U.S. army what im saying is that they actually can sink even carrier... Also, they have good or very good antiaircraft weapons.
Read something about their military. You will understand that it will not be like in Iraq.
Also, remember war in Spain, germans tested their weapons there. You think that russia or china will drop a chance to test their toys? I can bet that they allready shipped large amount of high teh weapons to Iran.

I think the OP is wrong for several reasons, and right for one reason.

The one area in which he is correct is in by stating that it has been demonstrated that in a war game, small fast attack craft managed to succesfully defeat a carrier. This is undisputable and it happened.

However, there are reasons that the military perform these war games, one of those reasons is to highlight previously unforseen tactics as those demonstrated by the team that won, (Red/Blue cant remeber which and it was too many pages of BS ago for me to back track to) and learn from them.

The OP is delusional if he believes that the US navy simply re-set the game without taking a lesson away regarding how to deffend their carriers from this type of attack in the future.

IF the US attack Iran and Iran offer little resistance, it will all be over very quickly and the US will come out of the engagment in a better condition than Iran. However, if Iran decide it all or nothing, this will be a very messy conlict and Iran may well come out of it better off than the US.

My reasoning or that statment.

Another war now could potentialy bankrupt the US who, metaphoricaly speaking are in administration anyway. And what those who seem to delight in the idea of war, making references to "bomb them back to the stone age" dont seem to realise is that Iran, being less technologicaly reliant, and having no link to the world bank will cope with a few bombs far better than the US will cope with being bankrupt.

Iran would come out of this conflict in pretty much the same condition as it entered it, would the US ?

Finaly a question, and this possibly shows my ignorance in US/Iranian politics. Why do the people on this foum who seem keen on war, seem so keen on war. What is the percieved threat from Iran that America is so scared of?

Having the biggest weapons and guns won't make you win a war, game planning and intelligence does.

Originally posted by SoulParasite
Oh you cant say nothing about killing innocent palestinians...

Haven't had enough, have you? You do understand this is derailing the thread, aye?
Anyway..

I did say something about killing innocent Palestinians. No Israeli soldier/commander wakes up safer in the morning after knowing innocent civilians were killed. It does not serve any goal to the IDF, on the contrary.
On the other hand, it serves all the goals to Hamas. Hamas already knows it cannot fight the IDF, so they only way to be effective at all is to fight using propaganda, which is exactly what I said in the previous post.

I can derail this thread even further and post solid proof of operating from kindergardens, UN funded schools, civilian neighborhoods and mosques, in order to draw fire from the IDF and make them kill innocent Palestinians.

And maybe something about this: news.sky.com...

Do you think I'll let you throw accusations at me for much longer? Do you wish for me to start asking explanations for sick and twisted things which I find wrong in Islam, in Iran or whatever backwards country you're rooting for? Clearly you're up to nothing contributing, but only trying to derail the thread as far as you can.

About the T-Shirts. Although it's not politically correct, it happens on every army. These sick jokes that relate to the military exist not only in the IDF. I don't know if they are used to show superiority, boost the morale or share one's sick sense of humor, they are not an indicator for anything.
Personally, being served as a fighter, I will not wear such a thing.

Originally posted by SoulParasite
Jesus... Man, its not about some misilles... Its about level of preparedness, will to fight and equipment...

What makes you think Iran is any better than the US when it comes to level of preparedness, will to fight or equipment? Specially the equipment part.

And yes, Iran can fight long time with U.S. Im not saying that they will win or destroy entire U.S. army what im saying is that they actually can sink even carrier...

They can sink a carrier if they are on their best day and the US is really unready, which will not happen. Still, this does not equate to "US NAVY WILL BE DESTROYED IN HORMUZZZZ!!!".

Also, they have good or very good antiaircraft weapons.

Which were battle testes just how many times exactly?

Read something about their military. You will understand that it will not be like in Iraq.

Read something about them? I know from experience what they have. Regardless, you can pretty much see anything they have to offer at Global fire power.

Also, remember war in Spain, germans tested their weapons there. You think that russia or china will drop a chance to test their toys? I can bet that they allready shipped large amount of high teh weapons to Iran.

Your hopes have nothing to do with facts. Truth is they are using some of Russia's equipment, small part of it being anything that can be classed as new generation tech.
China's high tech? Would you please enlighten me on what do they have to offer besides long range missiles?

Nevertheless, Islamic armies have had a terrible experience in the past with using soviet weaponry (that at that time was actually high-tech). So bad they had to buy not only soviet gear, but soviet pilots to operate them.
Do you want me to cite history, or do you know what am I talking about?

-Double post-

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Mate, im not defending islamists. Check my other posts. Im only saying that it will be long and hard war, not like in Iraq... Im not supporting Iran, i know that they are extremists. Learn something about military then post.


Dont tell me that you (as Israelis) dont commit crimes against Palestinians. You are stealing their houses etc. But ok, its another thing and we shouldnt write about it in this topic.

Any kind of US will destroy Iran, Iran will destroy US is just borish pompous posturing.

All you pro-Americans, Americans, warmongers who make statements to the nature of "The US will destroy Iran" are part of the problem.

The US has no legal right to attack any nation on the planet. Especially for a hypocritical point that "they" are arming themselves with nuclear missiles. One day, soon, all these illegal attacks on countries will come back and bite the might US of A on it's posterior.

The US will never drop another nuke, nor will any other country on this planet because to do so implies more than the actual act itself.

I'm actually starting to become a US hater.. and I live in the West! No wonder most of the Islamic world despise the US and wishes to Jihad you all.

T

Originally posted by SoulParasite
Im only saying that it will be long and hard war, not like in Iraq...

Iraq war took one week. Three weeks until both the government and army collapsed. The occupying is what took time, and it will not happen as it is not one of the goals in a war with Iran.

Im not supporting Iran, i know that they are extremists. Learn something about military then post.

Odd, so far I have been raising points while countering your's and all you have to say is "learn something about military then post", as if you somehow proved me wrong about anything?
How about this - you learn something about anything related to military conflict, consider very carefully if what you're about to say counts as your hopes, your opinions, or facts - and only then post.

Dont tell me that you (as Israelis) dont commit crimes against Palestinians. You are stealing their houses etc. But ok, its another thing and we shouldnt write about it in this topic.

I'm glad you agreed to stop whining about this subject. Feel free opening any thread you'd like in any forum you'd like and I'll be more than willing to make you quiet again.

Now I'm off. Anything you throw at me will be answered later so no worries if you don't get instant replies like now. Cheers.

reply to post by SoulParasite


No my friend its not true as a matter of fact i'll say more than 90 percent of what your watching or reading in your mainstream media is false.............As it probably is in any other country.But we have a choice to deny ignorance and look for alternative sources...........We can read, talk to other people from different backgrounds and hear their side of story.............not every body think the same you know...I never insult Americans or any other nations. .....as a matter of fact i have a lot of american and canadian friends.........I lived almost 18 years in canada and the US.and i have a profound respect for both people............you see its just the govs and the corporates that i and the rest of the world for that matter are against of.............I even had a couple of Israeli girlfriends and i have nothing bad to say about them at all.................just for you guys to know,, I am a pop rock musician who lives and works in Iran. and yeh,,I wear jeans!!!........Dont get me wrong I am not saying that we live in a perfect paradise,,there are lots of things wrong with our govs just like any other gov ...but we like to take our times ourselves and correct the issues without interference of western countries,if you dont mind!!......see if we talk and listen to each other we can find out that we have a lot in common and thats exactly what the Elites are afraid of, because then there will be no hatred ,no wars to establish them and fill their bottomless pockets...........If all people come to their sences The world will be a much better place to live......Together we stand....divided we fall............Peace......

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


You are finest example why peoples all over the world hate jews. You dont understend simple fact that Iranians are well equipped and prepared to war. More, you want this war. This is sick.
You bastards stole land and other things from palestinians and i will support them always. Im not supporting extremists like Iran or Talibans and i understand that world should do something with them but war is the last option, always. You are just like germans in 30's... You can do enything to palestinians but when someone is defending them he must be antisemite...

reply to post by area6


do you think we can nuke iran without another super power nuking us. you are completely clueless. what part of anything do you think it is okay to go around nuking countries to glass? and why cant others nuke back once pandoras box is open? why does anyone feel this stupidly? is it just arrogance or naivete?

it will take more than 1 nuke to turn them to glass or cripple them. so yuo are saying a barrage of nukes. what country in the world will let any other country in the world just start barraging a country with nukes? do you believe because we are American they wont dare retaliate?

sorry but that is a major fail. there are 2 other countries in the world who will make sure we never do that. and vice-versa!

reply to post by shapur


So, you (Iranians) dont want to kill me because im different? Your president and some other high ranked guys say different but ok, i belive you. Peace. And good luck with that carrier...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL



Darn, I thought we were done with your drivel. Please edit your title, it is misleading and deceptive. The US Navy will not be destroyed in Hormuz, period. At least admit that your original post is complete garbage... you reference a theoretical war game that is questionable at best. You provide nothing above short meaningless responses to anyone who questions your validity and you are referencing is dated at best and there have been huge developments in the advancement of the Aegis Combat System since this "war game" scenario was tested.

I will agree with you on one single point, we should not and hopefully would not escalate the conflict to a nuclear response if we are attacked but by god, I hope we respond with a full conventional assault with ever resource under our command. I do not think the US will be the aggressor in this campaign, it would be political suicide and permanently and irrevocably destroy many loose alliances we maintain within the Middle East.

reply to post by SoulParasite


>You are finest example why peoples all over the world hate jews.

It always good to hear from the anti-semitic crowd.

>You dont understend simple fact that Iranians are well equipped and prepared to war.

Let's get a second opinion on that...

Ding! Results are in...

The near panic trading of the Rial by Persians would seem to indicate they aren't exactly espousing your point of view.

Psst! The money traders have got their finger of the pulse of the Persian on the street.

19,000 rial to the dollar? ( I'm going to need a bigger wheel barrow!)

>More, you want this war. This is sick. You bastards stole land and other things from
>palestinians and i will support them always.

Those damn Jews! Always stealing land! They are so evil and twisted... They stolen SO much land... for SO many years, by now the Zionist entity must surely be as big as the old Soviet Union.

Funny... Looking at the current world map, I can' t seem to locate this super-sized nation... Just this tiny sliver of a nation.

Time for a reality check, no?

>Im not supporting extremists like Iran or Talibans and i understand that world should do
>something with them but war is the last option, always. You are just like germans in 30's...
>You can do enything to palestinians but when someone is defending them he must be
>antisemite...

You're absolutely right! Those evil land-grabbing Jews are just like those evil Nazi's of the 30s...

If they would have provided tax revenues, access to the power grid, cell phone service, internet access, world-class medical services... etc. etc.

Speaking of reality checks...

I've been following the premise (and rhetoric ) of the OP since page 1...

And in my opinion for what it's worth, would put the results of the Iran vs Allied forces somewhere between the 6 Day War and the Bekaa Valley air battle...

You get my drift.

Originally posted by SoulParasite
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

You are finest example why peoples all over the world hate jews. You dont understend simple fact that Iranians are well equipped and prepared to war. More, you want this war. This is sick.
You bastards stole land and other things from palestinians and i will support them always. Im not supporting extremists like Iran or Talibans and i understand that world should do something with them but war is the last option, always. You are just like germans in 30's... You can do enything to palestinians but when someone is defending them he must be antisemite...

The jews have every right to be in israel, just like the palestinians and christians. You should read history and learn something like the great exodus of the old testament where jews left egypt and settled in israel/palestine till they were kicked out by the romans again several hundreds years later.

Someone who is neutral to the conflict would say the two state solution cannot work because it is barbaric and unfair, but misinformed people like you help fuel the fire as well as fanatics of both sides. The walls should come down and israel should be one state/nation ruled by a secular government, meaning jews/christians/muslims can be part of the government.

I have no problem with the ghettos but this two-state solution is making the peace process go backwards. Anyone who disagrees should be refused citizenship in the new state and kicked out after they sell their belongings.

Originally posted by shapur
reply to post by Dragoon01

 

So by that you mean you can pretty much predict the outcome of any war anywhere!.......wow ,, hands up then.... Real war is not a game!!....its unpredictable, surprising, Harsh and long..and if you screw up you cant start a new game......so instead of designing war games lets do something good for the next generations so people like me would not be sitting here busting their asses trying to explain the obvious to people like you so our kids might have a chance to live life in a safer world.

Give yourself a pat on the back because you missed the entire point of the post.
I will go over it slowly so you will get it. The original post for this thread implied that because a single Navy simulation showed possible vulnerabilities to a US carrier battle group in the Arabian Gulf that the US Navy is risking a dangerous loss of man and material by transiting open shipping lanes. The implication of this thread was that the simulation indeed predicted the outcome of said events accurately My post was to simply show that other simulations could show completly opposite results and thus the original post was putting to much weight into a single exercise. You have chastized me for thinking I can predict every battle with simulations. I am not sure what your position actually is. Are you in support of the primary post, that a simulation predicted massive loss to the US, or that simulations are not capable of predicting war because war is not a game? You are not very clear here. I am very much in support of the idea that war can be simulated and its outcomes assesed based on those simulations. In fact greater military minds than mine are also quite in support of that idea going all the way back to Prussian generals in the early 1800's. That is not to say that the simulations are perfect no one with a room temp IQ would make that assumption. There are always the random factors that cannot be accounted for. Thats why wargames must be taken in context and the factors studied carefully. The games must be ran a number of times to get a range of results. If you climb down off your high horse long enough you might be able to see the value of these kinds of simulations. Wargaming and simulations make understanding wars possible. Understanding war makes wars avoidable.
Now please dont respond to me with another infantile attempt to tug at someones heartstrings. I have a brother curently serving who did a tour in Iraq I know very well the cost of conflict.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


we don't have time now sir,Ron Paul has been removed by election fraud in Iowa and warmongers are in place.We are now sailing towards ww3 for certain.I hope Russia has some extra bomb shelters for us conspiracy theorists.

reply to post by SoulParasite


no one wants to kill except the Rothschild and Rockefeller.We are useless eaters for them.