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Why the US Navy will be destroyed in Hormuz

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posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 

Do you have some proof that the CIWS was activated on the Hanit at the time of the incident?

Your critique of the system in that incident would rely on that being the case.




posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by Sailor Sam
reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Oh yes, you yanks won 2 wars since Vietnam -
1) the Grenada war
2) the Panama war
D

edit on 1-1-2012 by Sailor Sam because: spelling
And your last 'win' was.... when?

Just wondering, you brought it up.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


There will be wars and rumors of wars but the end is not yet. It is getting closer but not even that close as people might think. There is still a lot to be played out.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:36 AM
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If such an attack proved successful then every highly populated coastal country in the world could mass produce large quantities of cheap speed boats and challange the advanced navies everywhere. It would be similar to the extinction of the armoured knight after the adoption of massed musketmen in the 1500's



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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I had an instructor who told me that the windspeed on a carrier deck is often 90mph. I said "must have been a windy day" and he said "you would be suprised".



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


As I am currently a Sonar Technician in the U.S. Navy, I think I'd be a fair resource here.

Do you not think we learn from mistakes? That's why wargames are played. The navy constantly trains against small boat attacks, and one battle group can do way more damage than it receives.

Also, the debacle with the Chinese sub popping up in a war game. Anti-submarine warfare is probably the most nerve wracking and environmentally dependant warfare that the navy deals with. Sonar is a very hard field. Even though Chinese subs are not the quietest, when your surface picture looks like it does in a battle group, it is extremely hard to find subsurface contacts, the Chinese are pretty proficient in this field, and they're only getting better. If you knew anything about ASW you would know this, but obviously you're fairly ignorant in the matter. Also, China considers the act of us going active (pinging) on one of their subs and act of war, we don't want to risk a war because they're trying to bluff.

Although Iran has one of the better navies, they are no match for ours in proficiency and equipment, let alone sheer numbers. Of course, if you had done your homework, you'd know this. Our biggest obstacle is that as the U.S. Navy, we have way to many regulations to follow, and as always, the admiralty is rightfully worried about our public image, since if we even sneeze the wrong way, it ends up on CNN.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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The only weapon that should really be feared is the atomic bomb. And there are too many to go around. No place on earth will be safe.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 

First off let me make it clear I am against war with Iran, and
think most of the wars in the last 50 years were contrived.

As for the likely skirmish near the Straits...

There are quite a few land based US air bases in the middle east.

Globally its rumored we have over 700+ bases.

It is solid fact there is one in Saudi and Qatar.

One of the bases long range aircraft flies out of is Diego Garcia, and that
is a bit out of range for Iran unless they want to leave the Persian Gulf.

The US at present has a few air fields it can use scattered around the middle east.

The small boats in the water are likely to encounter heat seekers launched from
out of their range.

Most of Iran's navy will be wiped out from air power at a range beyond the visible horizon
with missiles much like they are bragging about.

As long as the idiots in the Navy have the Phalanx online and working right,
the missiles will have quite a bit of trouble getting thru.



One or a few US ships may traverse the straits trying to provoke an attack as they have
in the past, and when it happens then you will see the US air power already armed to
the teeth retaliate, and that will be the beginning of the end for the Iranian Air Force
and likely its Navy.

Most US carriers have 8 of these autocannons onboard and I say cannon because it
is 20mm which is ....just wrong...

While Iran has a decent military, the US spends more on military than any other nation
on earth and has done so for quite some time even if it is often spent corruptly and badly.
edit on 1-1-2012 by Ex_MislTech because: content



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by apodictic
reply to post by mantisfortress
 


What was your job and rank? "Official" speeds are "30+ knots", but 'actual' carrier speeds are on a need to know basis. It isn't public knowledge.


Wrong .... actual speeds are based on physics.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Semicollegiate
I had an instructor who told me that the windspeed on a carrier deck is often 90mph. I said "must have been a windy day" and he said "you would be suprised".


If a carrier is doing 30mph and aircraft want to land or take off they point the ship into the wind.

Whatever the wind speed is at the time can be added to the ships speed, so if the wind is blowing hard say 50 mph that gives you a deck wind speed of 80 mph.

Wind speed at sea is often much higher than on land for the same conditions are the open sea is exposed and there is nothing to slow the wind down. Anyone who has been to sea will tell you this.

Hope that makes sense.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


I think it was not activated according to the Israeli navy, but the CIWS is obsolete and the US has been replacing them with SeaRam etc.. and the ESSM



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Sailor Sam
 


It's not the "Yanks" who have been an impediment to reasonable relations with Iran. We have tried to support those who want a rational relationship with the US. Obama certainly made open overtures and of course was slammed by all sides for even TRYING to engage in a dialog, the response being Iran spit in his face. Don't say we haven't tried. Still its hard to be chummy with a government that is as openly hostile against the US short of open war since 1979. Iran is one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth. Aside from them not hiding the fact they openly support terrorism, are brutal in the extreme against the rights of Women and any political or religious group who are not ultra-shia reactionaries. You have Iran flushing any assemblage of rational diplomatic behavior right down the crapper as the UK was the most recent country to have to deal with that. The US has bent over backwards to offer Iran a diplomatic doorway. The door was slammed in our face then they blew it up. And yet were the ones not trying? Enough already.

You have open policy and comments they want to "burn and blow up the west and anything western", not just the US. And don't forget they want to "wipe Israel off the map" How would the world react if the US stated we wanted to exterminate Iran, and openly said we despise it's very culture and people? Who cares since many already hate the US. Personally I would be thrilled if Iran acted as if this wasn't the middle ages, I won't hold my breath on the current government even coming into the 20th century, let alone the 21st. Iran is the victim of only it's own horrendous regime. I have great sympathy for a great and ancient people living under such a nightmare, and wish the people of Iran all the best starting with freedom from a unbelievably repressive religious government.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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Some of the posters in here are real arrogent...Never underestimate an enemy.. Not that I think Iran is really an enemy anyway...



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Sailor Sam
reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Oh yes, you yanks won 2 wars since Vietnam -
1) the Grenada war
2) the Panama war
D

edit on 1-1-2012 by Sailor Sam because: spelling


Are you suggesting we lost Vietnam?

We didn't lose Vietnam, any ground we were told to take we took and held as long as we wished. We were told to stay put. It was a political game.

We achieved every objective given to us.

58,000 American soldiers died

1,500,000 Vietnamese soldiers died

You tell me who won.


-Alien



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by FrankieNinja
 


Why would USA use an ICBM for a lost carrier? If the USA caused the war and lost a carrier, if the USA uses ICBMs guess what everyone can use ICBMS on the USA now.

Wasn't the whole premise to go to war with Iran so they wont develop nukes, and then the USA goes and uses it? Then the Iranians will say, see we told you we needed nukes to deter from invasion


First of all the US would not lose a carrier.

Second, they would not use nukes on Iran.

Third of all the USA Isn't causing a war, Iran is causing a war by not abiding by their agreements.

And just a little note here for you. The UN security counsel has found Iran in non compliance with their treaties and has brought forth evidence for these claims for every UN country to view.

Apparently most countries agreed with the evidence in a vote and so sanctions were imposed as per agreements made with Iran.(and this is not the first time) In fact they have been habitually in violation.

The United States is not making these decisions to sanction Iran all by its self.


-Alien



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Take a look at something better than a map. Iran's army:
www.globalfirepower.com...
Their entire navy consists of nothing more than several old fashioned frigates, three subs, and gunboats. Yes, lots of gunboats...



If Im not mistaken, your link says Iran has 19 subs.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Alien Abduct

Originally posted by Sailor Sam
reply to post by P12SOLD
 


Oh yes, you yanks won 2 wars since Vietnam -
1) the Grenada war
2) the Panama war
D

edit on 1-1-2012 by Sailor Sam because: spelling


Are you suggesting we lost Vietnam?

We didn't lose Vietnam, any ground we were told to take we took and held as long as we wished. We were told to stay put. It was a political game.

We achieved every objective given to us.

58,000 American soldiers died

1,500,000 Vietnamese soldiers died

You tell me who won.


-Alien


Of course America lost the Vietnam war, mate. Your country failed to protect the southern part of Vietnam from falling into communist hands. Open a history book will you

American military deaths during the duration of the Vietnam war are estimated at around 57,000 thousand.

The North Vietnamese lost anywhere from 500,000 to 600,000 troops not a million and half. Plus the Viet cong had no tanks, planes or navy to speak of really. So it not surprising their country suffered higher casualties.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Alien Abduct
 




Third of all the USA Isn't causing a war, Iran is causing a war by not abiding by their agreements.


Does not matter about these agreements, USA cannot dictate to the world what to do. What if China started dictating to the USA?



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Can't believe this thread... The Iranian navy taking out the US fleet?


That's just like saying George bush was the best president in US history.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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That certainly could be correct and I am willing to admit I was wrong.

I read that the Japanese Navy killed more US sailors than the other way around a long time ago and I could not find proof of it.

Please do provide the reference you used.


Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by BRAVO949
 
Ask and ye shall receive.

Japanese Imperial NAVY NAVY NAVY, KIA and MIA 1941-1945: 414,879

US NAVY NAVY NAVY, KIA and MIA 1941- 1945: 62,614 (all theaters of operations)

"NAVY NAVY NAVY"......... Still not even close.




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