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Christians Blown Apart In Nigeria By God Fearing Islamists

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posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Algernonsmouse
 


definitions mean squat when people are dying. it's like caesar fiddling while rome burned (and then blamed it on christians). what's your world view? if it isn't islam (which is a fine religion when it isn't in crusade mode or sharia mode), then just rest assured that for every excuse you make for jihad, you provide yet another excuse for genocide, and your belief system is on their list if you aren't muslim. and i don't mean all muslims, i mean the fundies, the ones that go in and take over whole countries by force. you know and i know and most people on ATS know that war sucks. war is struggle. same damn thing.

stop the genocides in africa. stop blaiming poor black people in africa, simply because they are christian, for being to blame for crap other countries do, most of which are not statiscally christian, but predominantly white, and for some strange reason, jihadists tried to convince everyone that only white people are christians (of course, that doesn't fly in africa!) so they can blame all christians of any racial background for anything ever done in history, by white people in general (no matter what religion or non-religion they are!) or wayward christians for last 2000 years. it's the most ludicrous thing i have ever seen. and you're supporting this?

how is it the fault of nigerian black christians that the roman catholic church crusaded all over the place 500 years ago? do you want to inherit all the poor decisions made by people in the past? let's talk about RIGHT NOW.


edit on 1-1-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Jihad means struggle. That is all it means. Nothing more, nothing less. No educated historian would list it as a cause of death.


97% of Jihad passages in the Koran are references to violent Jihad

Jihad Passages in Koran



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by undo
i mean they are blaming poor black christian people in africa for stuff russia, england and america does, for crying out loud! even if the people doing it are no particular religion at all! that should set off some alarms


Good point.

How does whatever the West has or hasn't done justifiy the murder of Black christians in Nigeria by Islamic Jihadists?

It doesn't.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


I never said anything justified murder, under any conditions, or under any god's name. To imply I did means either you didn't read my post properly, which was articulated well, or you have an agenda.

What I said was:

a) Those statistics are unreliable
b) It is not only Islam that has killed in the name of God. Christianity has just as brutal a past.

Jihad literally means to struggle in the name of Islam, this is not limited to violence and war. It also applies to the internal struggle, the struggle to maintain one's faith amongst difficulties and temptations, etc.

Muhammad and his company were attacked relentlessly before they ever began retaliating.

My point is - this problem is common in all religions, why focus on only one? What about the Crusades? The Salem Witch THunt? The Spanish Inquisition?

It's easy for someone who doesn't speak Arabic to pick and choose parts of the Qur'an as they like, repeat misinterpreted lines, etc. - it takes a lot more to approach it open-mindedly, as most Muslims do. With regards to Hadith, not all Hadith are reliable and the huge room for interpretation is again present.

Conclusion: once again, all religions have brutal pasts - the world was a brutal place. But I could do the same thing and find violent, intolerant parts of the Bible and use them to say 'well all Christians are exactly like the Westboro Baptist Church and they always have been' - it wouldn't make it true. It would actually be an extremely ignorant statement to make.


That is the bigger picture, to focus on only one religion implies a huge amount of bias.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


I beg your pardon? I was communicating a similar point you did. Just because I used Christians as an example, it doesn't mean I was referring to them exclusively. Point is, they are not totally innocent either. All people kill people, not just this religion or that religion - some people use religion as an excuse, some people use political ideology. These are ways a facilitating murder, in many cases.

Pardon the imperatives but you should save the melodrama, quit being so aggressive and mellow out. Do not victimise Christians as if they're any less at fault when they do wrong, everybody is equally to blame for equivalent moral wrongs. In some circumstances, other factors come into play - for example in Africa.

However, I disagree very strongly that Christians are generally blamed when Pagans or other non-Christians kill people - that's a ludicrous claim. Who are the 'they' you refer to? I certainly don't blame X when Y kills someone, and I don't know many people that would.

There is nothing 'the freak wrong' with me. If you don't want to communicate in a patient and civil manner, then why not skip past my post?



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by arollingstone

Jihad literally means to struggle in the name of Islam, this is not limited to violence and war. It also applies to the internal struggle, the struggle to maintain one's faith amongst difficulties and temptations, etc.


I can only presume you are being deliberately economic with the truth (Islamic 'kitman') or know much less about Islam than you think you do.


...When a Muslim maintains that “jihad” really means “a spiritual struggle” and fails to add that this particular definition is an 11th century invention that originated from a fabricated hadith which is universally rejected by Islamic scholars, he misleads by holding back the true violent nature of jihad, and is therefore practicing “kitman.”

Lying & Deception in Islam
Lesser vs Greater Jihad Fabrication



Kitman... ...rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only part of the truth, with “mental reservation” justifying the omission of the rest (adjustment, deception etc, anything short of a full-blown lie).

Lying & Deception in Islam



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by arollingstone
It is not only Islam that has killed in the name of God. Christianity has just as brutal a past.

That is the bigger picture, to focus on only one religion implies a huge amount of bias.


Who should we be focuing on as murdering Chritians in Nigeria?

a) The tooth fairy
b) Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
c) Mother Teresa
d) Islamic Jihadists

If you found that one difficult, then you will struggle get the next ones.

• What great religion originated the term “jihad,” which means a permanent holy war against non-Muslims?

• What great and peaceful religion orders the killing of any individual who attempts to mock or draw a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed or question the veracity of the Koran?

• What great religion promises 72 awaiting virgins in paradise for a young man to strap a bomb to himself and take as many innocent lives with him as he can?

• What great religion teaches that deception is appropriate when it furthers their cause?


Did you work out the answer?



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


Well seeing as I grew up in a Muslim household, in a Muslim country, and went to regular Islamic Studies classes for years as a practicing Muslim - I probably know more about it than somebody who didn't.

It also helps that I understand the Arabic translations of Surahs in the Qur'an, as well as Hadith, and have read many Muslim scholars' views and interpretations.

That isn't to say I am a Muslim now, but I definitely understand the religion and its intentions. What sort of reading have you done, other than selective and biased online research? Have you read any full verses of the Qur'an in Arabic?



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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People say most moslems are good people like anybody else.
Their religion commands them to kill anyone who wont become a moslem, its in the coran.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 




Who should we be focuing on as murdering Chritians in Nigeria?

The Nigerian Government and 'Muslim' fundamentalist terrorist groups. I put that in quote marks because they are not Muslims - ask any practicing Muslim you meet in the real world. Those same extremists blow up mosques - and you seriously take them as Muslims?


• What great religion originated the term “jihad,” which means a permanent holy war against non-Muslims?

As I have already said, Jihad does not mean that at all. This statement clearly highlights the extent of your ignorance of the religion and is therefore, invalid.


• What great and peaceful religion orders the killing of any individual who attempts to mock or draw a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed or question the veracity of the Koran?

Was that the religion that ordered the killing - or was it a highly ignorant and hateful human being/collection of extremists? It was the latter.


• What great religion promises 72 awaiting virgins in paradise for a young man to strap a bomb to himself and take as many innocent lives with him as he can?

Not Islam. Manipulative false preachers promise that, Islam doesn't. Brainwashed, uneducated fundamentalists might believe that, but actual Muslims don't.


• What great religion teaches that deception is appropriate when it furthers their cause?

Where did you hear that one?

What a shame - it seems you have fallen prey to FOX news, deceptive politicians and their sensationalist friends' propaganda campaigns.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by arollingstone
 


i'm sorry but i had just saw a video of it, and there were babies and little kids, along with women and men of all ages, just laying dead in the street. one baby was so decayed, he was no longer recognizable as a human being, laying right next to other dead babies and children. and all this is about bringing in sharia law.

some of the pictures were so bad. there was one where the child's head had been split right in half above the eyebrows and some kind of device (presumably a weapon or something), was jammed into the top of their skull, opened the skull and slid it back, brains leaking out unto the dirt and wires protruding from whatever that thing was. it was......i just don't have the words to tell you.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by undo
 




i'm sorry but i had just saw a video of it, and there were babies and little kids, along with women and men of all ages, just laying dead in the street. one baby was so decayed, he was no longer recognizable as a human being, laying right next to other dead babies and children. and all this is about bringing in sharia law.

some of the pictures were so bad. there was one where the child's head had been split right in half above the eyebrows and some kind of device (presumably a weapon or something), was jammed into the top of their skull, opened the skull and slid it back, brains leaking out unto the dirt and wires protruding from whatever that thing was. it was......i just don't have the words to tell you.


Of course incidents like that are abhorrently horrendous, how anyone could do something like that is unimaginable. However, even if those responsible say its about Sharia law - it isn't. Those guys wouldn't know Sharia law if it bit them in the arse. That isn't Sharia law, its total lawlessness and genocide. Sharia law isn't about running around like savages killing people and beating women, its a system of law - not really the specific laws themselves.

Don't forget, these are some of the most uneducated people on earth.

Reactions to scenes like that are obviously emotional, however when discussing them one must be rational. No matter how powerful your emotional reaction to it was, no matter how graphic the images were, that isn't a substitute for logic. Remember after 9/11? Everybody was shaken up, heartbroken and scared. The US government took advantage of that and went into Iraq. It didn't excuse what they did in Iraq though.

Nor does an emotional response to those shocking images warrant a knowing refusal to speak rationally.



posted on Jan, 1 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by arollingstone
It is not only Islam that has killed in the name of God. Christianity has just as brutal a past.

That is the bigger picture, to focus on only one religion implies a huge amount of bias.


Who should we be focuing on as murdering Chritians in Nigeria?

a) The tooth fairy
b) Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
c) Mother Teresa
d) Islamic Jihadists

If you found that one difficult, then you will struggle get the next ones.

• What great religion originated the term “jihad,” which means a permanent holy war against non-Muslims?

• What great and peaceful religion orders the killing of any individual who attempts to mock or draw a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed or question the veracity of the Koran?

• What great religion promises 72 awaiting virgins in paradise for a young man to strap a bomb to himself and take as many innocent lives with him as he can?

• What great religion teaches that deception is appropriate when it furthers their cause?


Did you work out the answer?


You're pointing out the obvious and you've made rational points. You'll get nowhere. The theme is that the west is evil and the muslim fundamentalists are misunderstood and the true victims.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by arollingstone
 


something is going on. they hit sudan and genocided a bunch of black christians there.
now nigeria, libya and egypt. and those people are convinced that americans and brits are ordering it. if our leaders are ordering that..........!.
and you want me to be rational? i don't get it. be rational about genocide? should i be rational
about the killing of any racial/religious group, especially like this stuff? hellloo. anybody in there?

here's a guy talking about the sudanese genocide



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 06:15 AM
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look at this lovely video.
they would molest all these women because they aren't dressed properly, according to whatever,
and all those black african women would be called whores, raped and have their breasts cut off?
if not just outright shot after the rape. this video is a lie. there will be no black african women soon.
particularly dressed in "western clothes" (although those are more traditional african than western)
the video is a lie because it suggests african women can dress like that. they can't. not if they value
their lives. and even then, their skin color will likely get them killed. this video is a lie because it pretends
all is fine for black people in africa, and it isn't.



why do they want to spoil all that grace, charm and loveliness? something is freakin' wrong.
edit on 2-1-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by arollingstone
Have you read any full verses of the Qur'an in Arabic?


Hundreds of millions of Muslims can't read the the Qur'an in Arabic.

Go figure.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by arollingstone
Well seeing as I grew up in a Muslim household, in a Muslim country, and went to regular Islamic Studies classes for years as a practicing Muslim - I probably know more about it than somebody who didn't.

That isn't to say I am a Muslim now, but I definitely understand the religion and its intentions.


With the way you try to deflect attention by blaming the West for the murder of Christians in Nigeria by Islamic Jihadists, it is probably a good guess that you are indeed a Muslim.


Once a Muslim, always a Muslim?



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by undo
 



something is going on. they hit sudan and genocided a bunch of black christians there.
now nigeria, libya and egypt. and those people are convinced that americans and brits are ordering it. if our leaders are ordering that..........!.
and you want me to be rational? i don't get it. be rational about genocide? should i be rational
about the killing of any racial/religious group, especially like this stuff?

As I said, an emotional response is natural and actually, essential to maintaining ones humanity. By all means, complain about it. However, now we're discussing it on an intellectual level - that requires rationality. You use emotion to justify making unsubstantiated claims, that's not constructive at all.

So yes, you should be rational about the discussion of the killing of racial/religious groups in this environment.

I don't think anybody would disagree that its wrong to do what they do - we're discussing why they do it and I maintain it isn't for sincere Islamic reasons.


hellloo. anybody in there?

Why do you insist on these childish cliches? It seems like you're deflecting the issue.



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 



Hundreds of millions of Muslims can't read the the Qur'an in Arabic.

Go figure.

Laugh all you want but many Muslims don't speak Arabic - they learn the Qur'an in Arabic and rely on fundamentalist preachers for translation. This leaves a lot of room for abuse.

Where did I ONCE put the blame on the West? Please show me where I attempted to absolve fundamentalists of their responsibility in these actions. I believe you have mistaken me for another poster, who is blaming the West.


it is probably a good guess that you are indeed a Muslim.

Once a Muslim, always a Muslim?

That's a pretty poor guess, seeing as I already said that I am not - though this has no bearing on my argument. The point was that I have an intricate understanding of the religion.

Once a bigot, always a bigot?



posted on Jan, 2 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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what's this, looks like somalia is on the list too. so, thus far it's a genocide against black christians in sudan, somalia, nigeria, egypt and libya (not sure on religion in libya, but it's almost entirely black people getting killed because they were qaddafi supporters ..that migrated there from. .was it nigeria?).

the UN is going along with this! OMYGOD!




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