The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

i think origionally 'santa' was a real dude in the netherlands that did give gifts out to needy families around the time of the solstice. i think ' santa' became marketable when coka cola used their image of him for their product.
and if you think about it,it is totally appropriate,because thats all this fake 'christmas' holiday is all about anyway! buy buy buy! i'll knock you out to get that last x-box!
peace on earth people,please!

The beauty of the santa myth, compared to other widely held myths in society, is that by the age of about 9 , most people have given up on the fanciful story. Shame the same can't be said for those other myths.

It's funny how some words turn into completely different ones. Take Santa Claus for instance, the name is actually Saint Nicklaus... When you say it quickly without enunciating correctly it sounds like Santa claus. Now here we are years later traditionalizing a name/person that doesn't exist.

Poor ol' saint Nick. I tell ya, he gets no respect.

On topic though, We never really taught my daughter that Santa is a real thing. We use the tradition for fun at Christmas time but my child knows who really deserves to be buttered up around the holidays...ahem.

Originally posted by lifeform11
reply to post by steveknows

 

well the other examples you gave are fine because children know they need to imagine it, as they are fairytales and not real. or simply entertainment.

on the otherhand where santa in concerned, what is there to imagine if your taught something is real (ie not imaginary)?

i did not use fantasy to believe santa was based on a real person, for example, because i thought it was true.
interesting how you see what i was told by other people about santa being a real person in the past as properganda, because it was not true.

edit on 22-12-2011 by lifeform11 because: typo

I don't think I know on person who has ever told their children that Santa is real. Not one single person. Children believe Santa is real through exposure to tradition and then discovering that it's not real is (usually) a natural transition with no ill effects.

I think reading through these posts I see that it appears that some people are more against the concept of children having a childhood than they are against any legendary charactor. Perhaps that's more to do with thier own childhood than it is with the effects of the concept of a Santa on children themselves.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
What harm does it do? None. Who can sit here and honestly say they were harmed by believing in Santa?

Kids have great imagination. It is fun and helps to teach the spirit and goodness of giving.

Let them believe.

I can sit here and say that I was honestly harmed by beleiving in Santa. (raised poor in a large family.)

The harm that it does is for POOR children, who are told just like non-poor children are to "be good or santa wont bring you any presents." What do you think THAT does to their self esteem-self worth, etc when they wake up and find that either there are no presents, or the presents that are there are not what they "wished" for? I wasn't "good enough", or I was "bad". Yea, real healthy for kids.....

reply to post by DarknessMatters


How is feeding them lies protecting their innocence?

I have no issues telling the kids stories about Father Christmas (Wōden) or talking about St Nick, but if I am truthful I have no idea what Santa is all about outside the stories pushed by TV.

But the telling is the same as telling them stories of the pharisees, puck or the Green man and other such tall tales.. stories you learn are stories.. or are they..

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by DarknessMatters

 

How is feeding them lies protecting their innocence?

Even though the modern figure of Santa Clause is mostly a commercial entity, it amplify's the spirit of Christmas for children. How does it "protect the innocence" of a child? It gives them the belief that there is a person out there who loves everyone unconditionally. It allows them to believe in more than just what they see every day. It plants the seeds of open-mindedness in the child. It lets their imagination soar with thoughts of a place where everyone is happy all the time. So many children just don't have that feeling of happiness in their everyday lives, because of one reason or another.
You take Santa away from young children and you strip them of one of the only things that help keep them young and bright eyed.

reply to post by Firefly_

And in all honesty, I would prefer to tell my kid's a magical, loving story about a person like Santa Clause (whether he's real or not), than try to convince them to believe in a mythical "God" that says "love and believe in me or be cast in to a fiery pit for eternity".

Option #1: Tell my kids that there's an invisible bogeyman in the sky, that demands their love and dedication else be faced with harsh judgement, grief and sorrow.

Option #2: Tell them there's a jolly guy who brings gifts of happiness to all children around the world every year, just because they're children and he loves them.

Um, I'll take Option number two.

Santa is not just "St. Nick", it's the Dutch Catholic icon "Sinterklaas".

Yes, it was an educational trip when I went to Holland and hung out with the locals. They taught me much that the Amish in the Dutch-US territories (Like oh, New Amsterdam now called New York?) never mentioned.

Pics of "black pete":

images.google.com...

I had no idea that "Sinterklaas" had a little black slave named "Black Pete" who carried the bag for him. But I had read that it was Catholics who empowered Albert Pike to build up the KKK. I just hadn't known about Santa's racist past before he emmigrated to America and took over the Coca Cola Company. I had known about the papacy's racism and of Pike's KKK, but I'd not known Santa to use cheap black slaves.

Well anyway, all the more reason to bring Jesus back into it. Jesus is completely anti-slavery and also anti-materialism, and also, anti-Pope.

Originally posted by Nana2
I can sit here and say that I was honestly harmed by beleiving in Santa. (raised poor in a large family.)

The harm that it does is for POOR children, who are told just like non-poor children are to "be good or santa wont bring you any presents." What do you think THAT does to their self esteem-self worth, etc when they wake up and find that either there are no presents, or the presents that are there are not what they "wished" for? I wasn't "good enough", or I was "bad". Yea, real healthy for kids...

That, it appears, is one of the reasons people are so against it.

screw all that religious dogma, it only confuses the real meaning,

which is the winter solstice and the transition between the sun being low in the sky and thus short days/long nights, to the sun being high in the sky bringing long days and springtime

the sun stops moving southward on dec21/winter solstice. and the point where it gets most southward in the sky is the exact place where the constellation of the southern crux ( a CROSS) inhabits part of the sky.

this is symbolic of "jesus dying on the cross"

then, on december 25th the sun ascends off the cross and starts to make the days longer again.

before sunrise on the 25th, the "three kings" (three stars of orion's belt) make a line that lines up perfectly with the "star of the east" (SIRIUS) these four stars make a longer line which points toward the horizon. the point on the horizon which these stars point to is exactly where the sun dawns on the 25th.

the "three kings" "follow" the "star of the east" to find the manger where "jesus" is born.

jesus dies on the cross, is "dead" for three days until the 25th, and rises "back from the dead"

it's all astronomy, and because we anthropamorphize it, it becomes astrology.

if i have a kid one day i'm def. going to give them a one up on all the other blind and ignorant people of the world and teach them what it's really about: the stars.

The concept of telling your kids, a flat out lie, is wrong. No matter how you sugar coat it with Magic and Miracles.

I as a father of 3, have tried my hardest to keep my kids as kids. I don't want them growing to quick, or needing to think about the woes of the world before there ready.

But to perpetuate, in the face of my own "You Shouldn't Lie" advice and guidance, has to on some level break down trust, on a conscious or subconscious level.

Consider also the way a child see this aspect.

"You Must never talk to strangers..." "Do not take anything from strangers"

Except this guy in red with the beard and the glasses and no discernible facial features his body is obscured by an overly tight red suit and a big fluffy beard that screams "what this guy hiding". . . (Who Knows, have you ever asked for your local Santa's credentials?)

Not only can you talk to this "Stranger" because it's Santa, But you can go and sit on his lap, let him whisper in your ear and You ask him to come into home at night while you sleep and leave you presents under a tree.. . . .

And for this you'll leave him in return for his "Gifts" a glass of milk and a cookie. or a Carrot and A 6 Pack.

IN THIS FORM of the FULL BLOWN Con THERE IS NO GOOD OUTCOME FOR YOUR CHILD. Surely!!

I can Lie, but my children are not allowed. That's creating a foundation of mistrust and deceit from the onset.

I don't need to make my children "believe" in santa, for them to Understand the concept. And enjoy giving and receiving presents.

We at Christmas time, have never lacked the "Magic", but the magic is in the Gathering. NOT in the Gifts.

Faith...is a thing that is magical.
Satan has replaced Christ as surely as Santa ...hey they even have the same letters in their names...Satans Claws...Santa Claus.

Holywood has allowed movie after movie to be produced about Santa, but very few about Christ...just ask Mel.

Just don't let Santa come down the chimmney to posess the children.

I have no idea who would be against kids having a childhood...Santa is magical person to some kids and to destroy that is just idiotic.

Also the a lot of people on ATS believe in Aliens and other mythological things so why should they be allowed to ruin something the kids enjoy...you don't like it when someone tells you those things don't exist then don't tell your children Santa doesn't either.

Santa exists..he is just takes the form of your parents... not true but whatever.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


I'm definitely not against letting kids be kids.. I'm still one..

The thing is, like you just pointed out people on here believe in Aliens and Ufo's and the such.

But it's "their" choice.

To, build a con in a childs mind is to "make" them believe.

A child doesn't have the thinking power to put weighted thought into whether it's real or not.. If mum and dad say it is... then by golly it is...

A person who "Chooses" to believe in ufo's is entirely differnet kettle of fish. But an adult should be able to make a critical judgement made on the validity of facts presented etc etc.

That's what I think... Not saying I'm right... Just My Opinion.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Faith...is a thing that is magical.
Satan has replaced Christ as surely as Santa ...hey they even have the same letters in their names...Satans Claws...Santa Claus.

........

Just don't let Santa come down the chimmney to posess the children.

That has to be the worst comparison I've heard in a while. Calling Santa, satan, just because the same letters are there. In fact, Santa means "Saint" and Saint means "of God". So, if I understand your logic, you think Saints are evil because they are Santa's, just because the same letters are there.
One should better educate themselves prior to making outlandish claims.

Interesting, but for me I brought up my children in the American believe of Santa at least until they were smart enough to see the truth, then when they asked if Santa was real I told the truth, but no until they asked themselves.

Still I came from different set of believes, we do not celebrate Santa back in Puerto Rico, but the three kings and Christmas was celebrated because its religious meaning in my Island not because Santa.

Presents were given on January 6 and not the 25 so our holidays are longer with more partying and "parrandas" (like caroling).

I guess because we didn't have chimneys and snow in the Caribbean Santa was not an option.

I was very surprised when my parents started to have a Christmas tree when my sister children were born back home, my parents never had a Christmas tree when my sibling and I were children.

Santa commercialism is finally hitting my Island this days.

There's a difference between a myth and a lie. The Santa 'myth' simply allows children to enjoy a brief period of magic in their early years. Something most will cherish. Most of us that are old enough to remember Christmases before Wall Street bought the rights still fondly recall that magic. I guess as long as it's okay to perpetuate the myth that America is a democratic and free country a little Santa Claus is the least of our worries. At least in the latter case we can be safe in the knowledge that the kids will learn the truth as they get older.

Oh good, I thought I'd missed the yearly "Let's destroy Christmas for the kids because it makes me as an adult feel bad" thread.

I've never understood everyone gets up in arms every year about how we're lying to our kids if we let them believe in Santa Claus. There's nothing wrong with a child believing in Santa. It's we adults who screw it up and make more out of it than what it is. To a child, Santa isn't commercialism. He isn't the embodiment of greediness. He's a magical creature who brings them presents because they are children. Only adults put so much thought into it that they turn Santa into an evil pedophile who brainwashes children to be good consumers.

Adults complain about greed constantly, whether it's the greedy bank taking every dime you have or the greedy company you work for not paying you enough. Here is a mythical, magical creature whose sole purpose is giving things away and still you complain. If a child is taught the spirit of Christmas along with their belief in Santa it causes no harm and actually teaches them to be giving themselves. My oldest knows that before Christmas he has to go through all of his toys and clothes and sack up things that he no longer plays with or that no longer fit (that aren't broken, ripped, stained, etc.) so that we can donate them and some other little boy can play with the toys and wear the clothes. The number of presents under the tree isn't an indication of how good he was during the last year, and we shouldn't be greedy and want more when we're given gifts.

It's what you teach them along with Santa that matters. Not Santa himself. Belief in Santa doesn't harm kids, adults who don't bother to use the opportunity to teach their children some values harm children. Even a child from a poor household can have a great Christmas if their parents put more emphasis on the spirit of Christmas and Santa than they do on being good so they get lots of presents.