The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.

Your children are deliberately being used as weapons against you by the corporations. They are using Santa as a tool to make you feel bad unless you give them money.

The whole idea of Santa is to take the "we can't afford it" excuse away from parents. And to make children feel bad if their parents can't afford to cough up.

To those who support lying to their children for corporate gain. Your children speak to other children. We are going to tell our children the truth. Your fear of being exposed as a liar to your children is your problem, not ours.

But the concept of santa in one form or another was around before consumerism.

'tis a floppy trumpet you blow.

Originally posted by watchdog8110
How many of us were so dismayed with the girl that wanted to kill Santa thread . Was it for the horror of Santa the lie being snuffed out or the blackmail killing threat part of it ? Who perpetuated that BS ?

She knew full well Santa does not exist. She was thirteen and I'm sure she talks to her friends.

She was probably embarrassed about believing in Santa when she discovered the truth. Her friends would have thought of her as a baby, that wasn't privvy to "adult secrets", and gave her heaps over it.

I have no doubt that she was simply getting revenge on her mother for making her look like a fool.

"So Santa is still real? Ok then, I want this, and that, and this, and that. And if I DONT get it, I'll kill him!"

She's not dumb. She knows she can't be charged with threatening life that doesn't exist...

reply to post by steveknows


well the other examples you gave are fine because children know they need to imagine it, as they are fairytales and not real. or simply entertainment.

on the otherhand where santa in concerned, what is there to imagine if your taught something is real (ie not imaginary)?

i did not use fantasy to believe santa was based on a real person, for example, because i thought it was true.
interesting how you see what i was told by other people about santa being a real person in the past as properganda, because it was not true.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Kids believing in Santa makes Christmas more magical, then they grow out of it become jaded teenagers.

It does make Christmas more "magical". The problem is, the "magic" is a dark spell disguised as good. And yes, they become jaded teenagers who can't understand why they can't have everything they want for free.

My... what a cynical bunch some sem to be.

What happened to the concept of creating your own reality?

Christmas and Santa are consumer based only if you let it be. Some say Santa Claus was for a simpler time. Are y'all really that out of control of your life that corporations decide how you spend Christmas?

Santa Claus is coming to our house... gona be there Christmas morning. I built a bunch of home made birdhouses with a hinged roof stuffed full of cookies, candies, hard candy, apples, oranges, pocket knives, compasses, fudge...

My wife is making gift boxes with hand carved figurines and decorated so to be a keepsake...

Christmas Eve we will go caroling, drop off some food and toys at a few houses in need, take some pies and cakes to others...and then go home...tell the Nativity story in the barn with all the animals present... and then we will eat dinner.

I found out one Christmas that Santa wasn't real. I thought myself real clever... "See how brilliant I am to have found out." But after that, Christmas was never the same.. it lost that magical element....it was as if I wasn't a child anymore.

Then a few Christmas' later, I decided to believe in Santa again...I just pretended. Suddenly, the magic was back. It was kinda' cool. So I have believed in Santa every since then.

I am now 48, and Santa Claus is coming to town. Hope I get to see the Christmas Twilight Zone with Art Carney...

HO, HO, HO... Merry Christmas...HO, HO, HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Originally posted by Jim Scott
When I was a kid, I loved the Santa myth. I believed in Santa. Now that I have long been an adult, looking back I am very glad the adults of my parents' generation perpetuated the myth. I think it really helps children to begin their belief in God.

You're damn right it will help them...

From one fairytale, to another...

Sorry to say this to you OP, but I think you are being a Scrooge, although unintentionally, a Scrooge none the less. I always told myself I would never feed my Kids the BS lie of Santa Clause and I meant it when I said it.

Then I actually had Kids.

I never did pimp out the Santa idea to my kids, they learned about Santa all on their own. It is tough to get away from. He is everywhere. On TV, commercials, in Stores, on people's front lawn. Kids can hear all about Santa (or at least used to) from watching Sesame Street.

Fact is, you are reading way too much into this whole Santa thing. It is fun for the Kids, and believe it or not, it is fun for the Parents as well. In a world when Parents are blamed for every little thing, not once I have ever heard someone yelling, "They ruined my life by lying to me about Santa Clause"

Im not sure if this has already been stated but I am against teaching our kids about santa clause, or the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny. As a child if you are taught to believe in a imaginary figure and then come to realize that it was all fake, then how is a child to also believe in God? I think teaching a child in these imaginary people is setting your child up for failure to believe in something even more grand and important in our lives...

Originally posted by Alchemst7
Im not sure if this has already been stated but I am against teaching our kids about santa clause, or the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny. As a child if you are taught to believe in a imaginary figure and then come to realize that it was all fake, then how is a child to also believe in God? I think teaching a child in these imaginary people is setting your child up for failure to believe in something even more grand and important in our lives...

And what about the "God" you speak of? Who says he or she isn't imaginary? Perhaps children shouldn't be taught of that story either.....I hate to think how devastating THAT may be to their psyche, if indeed, they grew to find out the fraud of that figure.

Originally posted by MrWendal
Sorry to say this to you OP, but I think you are being a Scrooge, although unintentionally, a Scrooge none the less.

No offense taken, but not being a Santa enabler doesn't make me a scrooge. I'm going home to see family on the 25th and I can't wait. I'm even bringing gifts. But now society expects me to perpetuate the fable or else I'm a scrooge? This is exactly what I'm talking about. One of the points anyway.

Then I actually had Kids.

I never did pimp out the Santa idea to my kids, they learned about Santa all on their own. It is tough to get away from. He is everywhere. On TV, commercials, in Stores, on people's front lawn. Kids can hear all about Santa (or at least used to) from watching Sesame Street.

Corporate brainwashing? What makes Mcdonald's any different? Which brings me back to my OP. It's forced upon us without our say.

Fact is, you are reading way too much into this whole Santa thing. It is fun for the Kids, and believe it or not, it is fun for the Parents as well. In a world when Parents are blamed for every little thing, not once I have ever heard someone yelling, "They ruined my life by lying to me about Santa Clause"

I never said it wasn't fun. At first. Was it fun the first time you were asked a logical question like "Do starving kids get presents from Santa?" But you had to make an excuse which was uncomfortable for the sake of what? Keeping your dream alive?

reply to post by FlySolo


There's no reason why you can't have the fun of Santa without lying to your kids. Kids are really good at playing pretend, at least I was as a kid. They can be fully aware that Super Man is entirely fictional and still love Super man. So no, you don't have to tell your child Santa is real, you can admit that Santa isn't real and STILL have fun with the Santa idea.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by FlySolo

 

There's no reason why you can't have the fun of Santa without lying to your kids. Kids are really good at playing pretend, at least I was as a kid. They can be fully aware that Super Man is entirely fictional and still love Super man. So no, you don't have to tell your child Santa is real, you can admit that Santa isn't real and STILL have fun with the Santa idea.

How many people can you say do that though?

Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.
This whole "War on Christmas" thing is ridiculous at best.

believing in the Toof Fairy and the Easta Bunny and Santy Claws is ok... and innocent... let them 'stay' that 'way' as long as possible...
but when they start talking about their magical pet rats that live on the border of your reality and mine...
THEN SHOOT THEM UP WITH ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS! .. innocence extinguished enough at that point?

ahem... for your viewing pleasure dear DarknessMatters... view the 4:20 minute mark..




when they're imagining their OWN characters that supposedly actually exist.. it's horrendous.. it's sick and they're socially outcast and exploited to pull at fat housewife couch potatoes' heart strings for television ratings..

but when it's an 'ESTABLISHMENT APPROVED' corporately instituted 'imaginary being' ... THEN it's 'iiinnnnocent' and 'healllthy'....

you're making a direct example of how psychotically backwards this world is.

we're telling kids they're sick in the head for making up imaginary beings... but then also we're forcing the idea of OTHER imaginary beings into their head .. just because it's been accepted to do so because it fills some communal cultural tradition which is based on greed and Pavlovian reward-punishment behavior correction psychology....

man.. I have a strong feeling that people never really think about things deeply anymore.. just these knee jerk reaction comments.

sure lets lie to our kids, get them ready for the obama speeches

reply to post by NuclearPaul


Well I for one have fond memories of waking up early on Christmas morning excited to see santa had brought gifts. I became a jaded teenager because of highschool and puberty(thankful past that), not because I couldn't get things for free. Also why did you quote me twice? And both times you basically said the same thing. "EVIL CONSUMERISM!!"

All and all my post was mostly joking. I was shocked people actually cared that parents tell kids about Santa. Again whats the harm? If you say people in debt, thats their own damn fault for not budgeting or simply telling their kids that they can't have everything on their wishlist. Which by the way is what responsible adults do, and most adults are responsible so this debt after the holidays is more of a myth then Santa is.

I suspect the people in this thread against playing along with childhood fairytale s with children in till they grow out of it are still in the jaded teenager phase of life.

Keep the kids innocent. Tell them there is a Santa and an Easter Bunny et al.

Let them find out on their own.

I did and I wasnt scarred or bothered by it.

Originally posted by prevenge

when they're imagining their OWN characters that supposedly actually exist.. it's horrendous.. it's sick and they're socially outcast and exploited to pull at fat housewife couch potatoes' heart strings for television ratings..

but when it's an 'ESTABLISHMENT APPROVED' corporately instituted 'imaginary being' ... THEN it's 'iiinnnnocent' and 'healllthy'....

If those at the top of the medical industry would allow those beneath them to understand the spirit world is actually real, they would understand what is really going on with this poor girl.

Anyone who has a basic understanding of dark spirits knows what is going on there.

Poor girl...

reply to post by FlySolo


I found out there was no Santa when I was four years old.

...and I was totally cool with it because at first, I just thought he was racist.

I believe that the whole Santa Claus and the rest of it is probably one of the greatest problems with our society. There is absolutely no reason to teach children that lying is perfectly fine practice. I view Christmas as one of the initial deceptions committed against children. From my take on Christianity, well...Thou shalt not bare false witness (lie).

Most things are backwards or corrupt though these days. Manipulators manipulate people, Christmas teaches parents to lie to their children and it teaches their children that their parents lie to them...So therefore people who lie but give you gifts are perfectly normal.

Now that gets really strange when you start to think about it in terms of accepting lying gov't etc. You accept the lies and take the gifts. Ultimately there hundreds of thousands of parties manipulating you and it just so happens that the Christmas manipulation is on overdrive. There is a reason why the have nots become depressed and those that have lost their job and can't afford to provide for the kids kill themselves. Statistically Christmas is one those times.

I find it sad that people are beginning to take such a negative view on Christmas and Santa. I'm sure that even if Santa wasn't around, kids are still exposed to TV and the Internet etc. and would still ask for just as many presents. Without Santa however, it's a lot harder to cover up the reason your child hasn't got the 84 gifts they asked for that year!