Hmmm...but what if it's not a lie? What if there really is a Santa Claus, but he just doesn't visit your houses because the adults have to believe, too?

Happy New Year, everyone! See you all at the Easter Bunny debate in the spring!

lol at Chargeit's post. See, told you all so!

Well, of course, the REAL lie is that Saint Nicholas doesn't exist. Saint Nick DOES exist; and, if you teach your children otherwise, then YOU are the liar.

See, Saint Nicholas of Myra was a REAL person, a humanitarian and philanthropist and canonized Saint. He was (and is) a REAL historical figure. Every Saint of the Catholic Church only achieves saintly designation through the performance of miracles, and Saint Nicholas performed (still performs) one of the most remarkable of all miracles attributed to any Saint — Nicholas is capable of bilocation.

Bilocation is the ability to physically appear in two or more locations simultaneously... Locations separated not only by Space but by Time, apparently.

The more commercialized version of Saint Nicholas, Santa Claus, is a gaudy children's story, perhaps; but the story is still based upon what is known and has been observed of the paranormal appearances of Saint Nicholas over many centuries.

Yes, there have been numerous sightings of St. Nicholas, and not exclusively around the Christmas holidays.

Typically, Nicholas arrives unannounced and unrecognized, appears just as real as a living human being, and bestows a gift upon his hosts — particularly when his hosts have first shown him hospitality. The gifts of Saint Nicholas are not trifling "presents," either... His gifts are usually life-changing and life-saving miracles.

If you don't want your children believing in Santa Claus, you can take that simple pleasure away from them. But, if your intent is to tell them the Truth, then you should tell them the WHOLE story of Saint Nicholas of Myra, then leave it up to THEM whether or not to believe in it.

I mean, what do you have to offer your children that is so superior to a belief in the miraculous? Not much, I'd wager.

Originally posted by ZeskoWhirligan


If you don't want your children believing in Santa Claus, you can take that simple pleasure away from them. But, if your intent is to tell them the Truth, then you should tell them the WHOLE story of Saint Nicholas of Myra, then leave it up to THEM whether or not to believe in it.

Yes if you're going to tell them the truth then tell them the truth. That Santa has pagan roots right along with the christmas tree.

Originally posted by steveknowsYes if you're going to tell them the truth then tell them the truth. That Santa has pagan roots right along with the christmas tree.

Well, no, Saint Nicholas was NOT a pagan. He was a wealthy humanitarian and philanthropist (and a Catholic Bishop) in Myra, Asia Minor (modern day Turkey), in the 4th Century AD.

And Saint Nicholas is NOT traditionally associated with Christmas or any pagan holiday. Saint Nick appears unexpectedly at any time of year.

Originally posted by ZeskoWhirligan

Originally posted by steveknowsYes if you're going to tell them the truth then tell them the truth. That Santa has pagan roots right along with the christmas tree.

Well, no, Saint Nicholas was NOT a pagan. He was a wealthy humanitarian and philanthropist (and a Catholic Bishop) in Myra, Asia Minor (modern day Turkey), in the 4th Century AD.

And Saint Nicholas is NOT traditionally associated with Christmas or any pagan holiday. Saint Nick appears unexpectedly at any time of year.

edit on 2-1-2012 by ZeskoWhirligan because: (no reason given)

I know saint nick wasn't a pagan and you know what I'm saying.

The concept of a a supernatural being flying around like Santa predates Christianity and saint nick. It was given to saint nick later on and that's where it ends. So many pagan beliefs and deities have been obsorbed by Chrsitianity in its attempt to stamp it out. This is easily researched but if you don't want to look further than saint nick that's up to you. It doesn't change the fact.

Yes, we should lie to kids about Santa.

Kids need a bit of a break before they find out that the world is too hard.

Originally posted by steveknows
The concept of a a supernatural being flying around like Santa predates Christianity. It was given to saint nick later on and that's where it ends. So many pagan beliefs and deities have been obsorbed by Chrsitianity in its attempt to stamp it out. This is easily researched but if you don't want to look further than saint nick that's up to you.

Umm, no, Saint Nicholas does not "fly around," never did. Saint Nicholas of Myra performed the miracle of bilocation — appearing in two or more places simultaneously — both during his life and over the centuries since his death.

Now, are you going to tell your children that COMPUTERS are a myth, too? Because today, through computer technology, anybody can appear in more than one location simultaneously.

Your argument will predictably follow that computer technology is demonstrable SCIENCE.

Yet, you have NO IDEA of how to construct a computer from scratch. Therefore, you are relying on your FAITH in that which you do not understand (computer technology).

Sir Arthur C. Clarke once observed that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I mean, a hundred years ago, they would've put you in the looney bin if you tried to explain modern computers to them, using your limited understanding of the technology.

A hundred or so years earlier, they might have killed you for being a witch.

My point is, there are many instances of "magic" and "miracles" mentioned throughout history. You might call them superstition and myth and crazy BS — but the fact is that YOU DON'T KNOW, because you weren't THERE. All you REALLY have is your IGNORANCE of the past, which you weigh against your KNOWLEDGE of the modern world.

For all you know, Saint Nicholas of Myra may have discovered some method of interdimensional travel that permitted him to exist in more than one location simultaneously. Modern Physical Science actually does not prohibit such phenomena.

Modern Physical Science is presently talking about parallel universes, interdimensional travel, Faster Than Light travel, and even Time travel... Are you ready to present any of THAT to your kids as the Truth?

I mean, even though you don't understand the Physics of it, you'd probably allow your kids to STUDY these Scientific theories, simply because you have placed your unquestioning FAITH in Science.

Seriously... Would you be willing to tell your kids that the Big Bang, Black Holes, Quasars, Magnetars and Neutron Stars are all LIES? Because, face it, all those concepts are nothing but manmade THEORIES, with no hard proof to back them up.

If your understanding is wrong, that's where all the problems BEGIN. If you don't understand the roots of mythology, or the roots of Science, or the roots of Religion, you're not qualified to tell your children the Truth about ANY of it.

See how it works?

Just because you don't understand history and mythology is NO REASON to perpetuate the ignorance of it, okay?

The "magical" Santa Clause is real dammit. Yeah, I said it.

Ok, maybe he isn't but there was one time when I was 9 years old, my Dad was setting up the Christmas tree while I was watching holiday toons laying on the couch. After I blink my eyes, all of a sudden Clause is IN MY FACE, I was shaken! I took a HUGE GASP and he swiftly threw some "dust" in my face and I fell asleep. The dust was all colorized and shiny. As soon as I woke up, I said, "OMG! Where is Santa Clause??" My Dad said, "Oh, he left." I know now that he didn't realize that I "seen" Santa, so he really had me going.

I'll never forget that though. I don't know what the hell happened that night.

The Man Himself...

Well, Saint Nicholas stories are not all jolly ho-ho-ho, not by any means. Appearances of Saint Nicholas are paranormal, to put it mildly. I mean, one story has Nicholas raising murdered children from the dead. Another story tells of him visiting a monastery during time of war and miraculously filling their stores of food, like Christ with the loaves and fishes, right, except St. Nicholas performed his miracle in the 20th Century.

There are numerous St. Nicholas stories, right up to present day, but they in no way resemble the iconography of Santa Claus.

If you want to tell your kids the TRUTH about Saint Nicholas, then DO THE RESEARCH on the subject. Nicholas was a real person with a lasting legacy, a legacy of generosity and charity and providing for all those in need.

Originally posted by lifeform11
Funny you should say that, because from my point of view alot of people are acting like santa is a religion, and anybody who does not teach it or believe in it are attacked...

...alot of people act like this is a forbiddon subject, like your not allow to discuss the santa thing.

What a surprise. Parents resent other people telling them how they should think, what they should do and how they should bring up their kids.

Go figure.

You don't have to lie to children, tell them Santa Claus is a story.

If you have to use Santa as a way to make your children behave well, then your parenting knowledge needs some serious re-evaluation.

/shrug. My parents told me about Santa etc, eventually when I was 7 or 8 years old I had a pretty good inclination he wasn't real, I asked my Mum and she told me the truth. I don't think a parent would keep going if the kid really honestly asked the validity of Santa.

Originally posted by shadowland8
/shrug. My parents told me about Santa etc, eventually when I was 7 or 8 years old I had a pretty good inclination he wasn't real, I asked my Mum and she told me the truth. I don't think a parent would keep going if the kid really honestly asked the validity of Santa.

My parents never told me about Santa Claus. I remember very clearly one Christmas back in the 1960s when I pointed out to my mom that my various gifts still had residual adhesive from price tags, and I told her I knew the presents had been purchased. She was stunned that I was so observant, at 5 years of age.

Hey, I wasn't disappointed, really. In fact, I was somewhat relieved to discover that my gift requests weren't being processed 6000 miles away at the North Pole along with billions of other gift requests. I knew, as soon as I made the realization, that I only had to submit my requests to my parents, rather than some omniscient demi-god who KNEW how bad I'd really been. My parents certainly didn't know.