The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by FlySolo

 

why dont you get it over and done with and also tell them about the horrors of this planet.

That's a bit excessive don't you think? I just don't see the point in convincing children that he's real. What point does it server really? Children have imagination anyway. And their innocence. So what's lost?

Not, it is not excessive. If you are going to tell the truth about father , why stop there? Children find out when they are older, just like they find out their fav tv character is a person in a suit.

In fact, why dont you tell them that jesus was not born on christmas day. You see what getting at?

It's excessive because your exaggerating my point. Go back and take a look at my first post. I edited a little picture in there. Do you not explain from time to time (if you have kids) that others are not as fortunate?

id say perpetuate what we know. A long time ago... a man was generous enough to treat all the children of his village to toys on a certain day. Maybe one day they can be generous enough to emulate his actions?

as we certainly aren't celebrating jesus... just awesome perpetuation of commercialism.

the argument for imagination doesn't make much sense. how can kids be stretching their imagination if they think santa is actually real? if they consider it a fact, how does that help their imagination at all?

1 a : existing only in imagination : lacking factual reality

www.merriam-webster.com...

keeping kids innocent and exercising their imaginations can both be accomplished without lying. treat santa like a mascot, or a story.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
the argument for imagination doesn't make much sense. how can kids be stretching their imagination if they think santa is actually real? if they consider it a fact, how does that help their imagination at all?

1 a : existing only in imagination : lacking factual reality

www.merriam-webster.com...

keeping kids innocent and exercising their imaginations can both be accomplished without lying. treat santa like a mascot, or a story.

That's a great point!. And it has been my argument all along. Kids will play with a stick.

It looks like I'm in the minority according to the link below. 31% no 69% yes. I don't know and please, I'm not a scrooge.

reply to post by FlySolo


ah, another christams character to label those who choose not to take part, another peer pressure character, "if i do not take part then people will think i am a scrooge"

perfect.

buy, buy, buy, what? you did'nt buy? you scrooge!

I don't see why not, it doesn't hurt anyone. Kids believing in Santa makes Christmas more magical, then they grow out of it become jaded teenagers. Go to college get a job wife and kid, and bam the cycle continues. No one dies, no one gets hurt and no one cries. Well except maybe a parent, after their kid tells them they don't believe in Santa anymore, and they know from now on the world will always be just a little less magical for them. :'(

What's wrong with you people, get a life!

reply to post by FlySolo


Like the OP I do not have children, and I agree that we should stop with teaching the Santa mythos to children (for all of the points raised by the OP and some of the other posters on this thread).

What I don't get are the people saying to let children remain ignorant...err...."innocent" as long as possible.

I persoanlly think that keeping children ignorant, confused, and blind to the brainwashing techniques of commercialized business (especially around the holidays) is at best miguided and at worst a blatant failure to the responsibility of raising smart, questioning, and aware citizens (you know...what those children will become).

Maybe if as a society we quit feeding childrens heads full of BS fantasy stories (Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, 9/11 was carried out by terrorists who hate our freedom, etc...) and gave them a good doses of reality along the way they wouldn't be so disillusioned, confused, and angry by the time they are adults and instead would be smart, thoughtful, and ready to do some good in the world.

But, once again, I don't have children so what do I know about raising them?

reply to post by BlindSided


What? You think this discussion doesn't happen offline too?

The purpose of such stories are the same as those found in many religions. The same reason for simulators. The same reason for engaging in math problems that do nothing for you. So it seems at the time.

Pathways are burrowed in your mind giving the POTENTIAL for consciousness to travel down those pathways. The subconscious mind tinkers amongst these burned-in pathways. When confronted with an issue where your conscious mind digs for a solution, those pathways are available. Suddenly you have a solution come toward to your conscious front and you think your so very, very smart to solve the problem.

Maybe so, but you've muliplexed multiple pathways ALREADY THERE to make several new ones. It's science.
Put 2 electromagnetic frequencies through a non-linear device and what comes out the other end is the 2 original frequencies, their sum, their difference, and a whole spectrum of harmonics. Your mind is a non-linear device. The pathways are the frequencies. Google modulators and demodulators in electronics.

So put pathways for good, for positive, Santa, the Christ, Buddha, good works by yourself and others, whatever, all of it in there and as they combine through your non-linear device (mind), deeper and new good is generated.

The same goes for when you install pathways of negative. Bad begets worse and deeper, newer bad. Be warned. The fire as it gets hotter melts more fuel which feeds the fire to an even more intense heat, only to melt more fuel into a run-away mind.

How many of us were so dismayed with the girl that wanted to kill Santa thread . Was it for the horror of Santa the lie being snuffed out or the blackmail killing threat part of it ? Who perpetuated that BS ?

reply to post by Jobuko

BS fantasy stories (Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy,

Wow. The tooth fairy doesn't exist?
I guess that nixes the idea I had for getting the $32 I needed.

I think that while children live in the realm of imagination and fantasy we should let them continue to do so.

reply to post by steveknows


santa is not their own imagination, it was somebody elses (although based on a real person) taught to them as fact, well not all them.

i think it is nobody elses business but the parents wether or not to teach the santa religion. but i also think people should be allowed to discuss the negative things about santa and christmas so that people are aware of them and can judge themselves what is best for them or their kids.

to many people seem to get offened when you dis christmas or santa clause.

if you want to encourage their imagination then they need to be the ones who are coming up with the imaginary images and magical things they like. not somebody else.

if a kid draws a picture of something they made up they are using their imagination, they would not be if somebody else drew the picture for them and then just showed it to them. they may well beable to imagine things from it, but that would of been influenced by what the other persons imagination came up with.

reply to post by FlySolo


My children grew up with understanding Santa as people spreading the holiday spirit from babies, I told them we the parents buy the gifts, I had many many angry parents I had to deal with from kindergarten when my children told their stories, I also shared the Christians the nativity story. I refused to have them know I lied. Obvious they knew bunny was fake also, lies are never good and Santa isn't the person who is sharing the gift it is the person who gave the gift to the child. Peace

Originally posted by lifeform11

I think that while children live in the realm of imagination and fantasy we should let them continue to do so.

reply to post by steveknows

 

santa is not their own imagination, it was somebody elses (although based on a real person) taught to them as fact, well not all them.

i think it is nobody elses business but the parents wether or not to teach the santa religion. but i also think people should be allowed to discuss the negative things about santa and christmas so that people are aware of them and can judge themselves what is best for them or their kids.

to many people seem to get offened when you dis christmas or santa clause.

if you want to encourage their imagination then they need to be the ones who are coming up with the imaginary images and magical things they like. not somebody else.

if a kid draws a picture of something they made up they are using their imagination, they would not be if somebody else drew the picture for them and then just showed it to them. they may well beable to imagine things from it, but that would of been influenced by what the other persons imagination came up with.

Either you don't understand that it takes the ability of fantasy for the concept of santa to work or you just have no concept at all. Grims fairytales, the Wiggles, Santa. They get their power from the mind of the children. None of it would work if children didn't have the power of imagination and loved fantasy.

And santa isn't based on a real person regardless of propaganda. Santa is the left over of a pagan spirit who used to have a sidekick and that sidekick even still survives today in the form of the chimney sweep and still in some european countries Santa and the chimney sweep ride together.

If it's ok to believe in Santa, then how is it any different than believing in aliens, ghosts, or Big Foot?

Some people here need to examine how this thread discussion makes them feel. You say there's no harm, yet for some this can't even be considered as valid conversation... And why is that? Because you need a reality check: your programming runs deep and you refuse to see the matrix. Even on this site, there are many who just can't do it.

Call me what you want... I could care less.

My observation is that adults perpetuate the Santa lie to help themselves more than anything else. Let's face it... The holidays are not very happy times when you're pressured to over spend, over eat, deal with crowds and relatives you hate, not to mention the bad weather and lack of sunshine. Seeing children dazzled by the "magic" alleviates all that crap.

I've had this discussion many times before and based on that plus my own experience as a child I feel the need to point out something no one has mentioned here yet which I feel is of some importance. Where do most kids find out Santa isn't real? From their friends at school or an older sibling. When does this usually happen? This varies but usually as they're entering the tween or pre-tween stage of life. I don't think this is the best time for a kid to find out their parents have been lying to them their whole life, especially from their friends. They're entering a time in their lives where they will need a lot of parental guidance but who are they going to turn to? The parents who lie and even put unspoken pressure on the child to keep up the charade for the parents sake, or their school friends who finally showed them the light and told the truth.

Long story short I think it's a bad time for a child to start trusting their friends over their parents... As if there's ever a good time for that.

I don't care if anyone agrees, I'm just offering up my opinion (as I thought was the point of this site) and hoping that people take a long hard look at the underpinnings and implications of such a seemingly harmless fable.

On a personal note, I had fabulous Christmases as a child, full of the "magic" and tons of gifts. While I have such fond memories, I also believe that set me up for ultimate disappointment later in life. It's like a high you're constantly chasing but somehow never seem to be able to duplicate. Which is why I say that the whole mess is perpetuated. It's a never ending cycle deeply rooted in sentiment and emotion, and all these companies trying to sell you and your kids their crap knows that. Despite my good memories, I refuse to lie to my children, and will still provide them with wonder and delight while basing their experience on all the things that are important. I refuse to support the gross consumerism and will never impose that on my kids.

Not brooding in lies is a plus in my opinion, and does not strip a child of innocence or imagination. It's an opportunity to focus on important values and establishing just as treasured lifelong memories.

Merry Christmas to all my fellow ATSers!

Originally posted by Jobuko
reply to post by FlySolo

 

Like the OP I do not have children, and I agree that we should stop with teaching the Santa mythos to children (for all of the points raised by the OP and some of the other posters on this thread).

What I don't get are the people saying to let children remain ignorant...err...."innocent" as long as possible.

I persoanlly think that keeping children ignorant, confused, and blind to the brainwashing techniques of commercialized business (especially around the holidays) is at best miguided and at worst a blatant failure to the responsibility of raising smart, questioning, and aware citizens (you know...what those children will become).

Maybe if as a society we quit feeding childrens heads full of BS fantasy stories (Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, 9/11 was carried out by terrorists who hate our freedom, etc...) and gave them a good doses of reality along the way they wouldn't be so disillusioned, confused, and angry by the time they are adults and instead would be smart, thoughtful, and ready to do some good in the world.

But, once again, I don't have children so what do I know about raising them?

You're right! You have no children!.

Originally posted by SilverStarGazer
If it's ok to believe in Santa, then how is it any different than believing that aliens, ghosts, or Big Foot?

Because it's children believing. But you're right. The others are usually coverd by adults with the mind of a child.

And you've just put the others where they belong being the realm of fantasy.

I can't believe you just effectivaly said "If children can do it why can't I?" guess it answers a few things.

Originally posted by DarknessMatters
The belief in a Santa Clause by children should be encouraged. They're children. Let them stay innocent as long as possible.

Your children are deliberately being used as weapons against you by the corporations. They are using Santa as a tool to make you feel bad unless you give them money.

The whole idea of Santa is to take the "we can't afford it" excuse away from parents. And to make children feel bad if their parents can't afford to cough up.

To those who support lying to their children for corporate gain. Your children speak to other children. We are going to tell our children the truth. Your fear of being exposed as a liar to your children is your problem, not ours.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
I don't see why not, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Tell that to all the people in January that are hurting because of the debt they have been manipulated into getting into.