Government Motors Volt Costs Taxpayers $250,000 per Vehicle

reply to post by Indigo5


Because tech there will not be sold off or licensed to the highest bidder but will be made available for free to others when it's perfected.

reply to post by Indigo5


The us Government doesn't have money it steals it via taxation and when they blow it they steal more and that is what they do and what they have alwas done.

The simple fact is GM any company should use its own money not mine not yours not anyones.

reply to post by neo96


GM WAS NOT A THEFT!

You want to see a theft, look at the banks and how they had zero accountability!

Taxes make sure that the nation can afford essential services as if you don't want to pay taxes don't dare call the Fire Dept when your house is in flames, let it burn down right to the ground.
Don't dare to call the cops when someone is attacking you or your family, taxes pays for that!
When a power line is down in your yard you might as well fix it yourself and don't dare call the city to fix it.
Might as well have a cement mixer, road roller and scrapper trucks for when your street gets cracked because taxes pays for that.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Seems GM and crony capitalism has no accountability either.

Zeig heil for the Fascists and the corporatism in the thread.

reply to post by The Sword

How are GM and the U.S government "forcing" people to buy these cars? Hint: they're not!

False!
I never said we were forced to buy these vehicles. However, we are "forced" to pay for their production through the administarive agencies (DoE, DoL, DoT) that subsidize their production, marketing and purchase with my tax dollars.

Try to think before you post misrepresentations, falsehoods and false accusations.

jw

reply to post by The Sword

Where's the "free market" when it comes to this technology?

There is no free maket when fascist governement monopolization of industry and production tilrs the "market" to favored industries and products.

There would be no Solyndra, A123, Green Vehicles of Salinas, Volt or other crony capitalist boondoggles if there were a truly "free" market.

So long as Obama and his cronies keep their thumbs on the scale, competition will never be fair and the best will not outlast the worst.

jw

reply to post by Indigo5

You seem to think that your The Street blogger's calculations real facts, when they do not.

Whether you and your "sources" want to rely on ten-hyear or 25-year "projrctions," the bottom line is that such guess-work is belied by facts on the ground.Do you not recal GN and Onama's "projections?"

10 million EVs by 2015? 60 million in 25 years? You are kidding yourslef and misleading ATS members with such pure BS.

Look at GM's "roll-out" projections for proof:

GM’s Volt marketing director Tony DiSalle [said] in a webcast in which he took reader’s questions ...
GM will produce 10,000 Volts from the end of this year through the end of next calendar year, and that they will produce 30,000 Volts in the 2012 calendar year.

gm-volt.com...

40,000 Volts in the first 2 years' production? Even with Obama cronies like GE and local and federal fleet sales, no rational person believes GM will sell 30,000 Volts before 8/2012.

You "projections" are baseless and not worthy of considrationexcept in propaganda.
Even GM has NOT countered the "basic math" of the Mackinac calculations.

They do not need your pathetic attempts to prop up their failed agenda at taxpayers' expense.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


8,000 units have already been sold meaning they may not be able to make the 40,000 estimate that they were shooting for. Hell, no one expected them to sell this many in this short time span.

reply to post by jdub297


Correct your typos...So I can be sure what you are ranting about.

You are not making sense. I don't care whether the projections aer accurate, they don't get the funding if they miss goals...see the funding and loan guarantees are spread out over 20 years and tied to goals...thus the crappy math that treats the first 6000 cars sold last year after officially only luanching in November as absolute...while at the same time treating yet to be released funding tied to goals as money already spent.

I can't say it any other way...Links...Math lessons...other peoples explanations...your mind appears stuck in a rut....and your responses seem to be about vitriol directed at "liberals" rather than starting with actual facts..Not interested in discussion with the idealogically rabid.

The Macinac Policy Center sure knows it's target audience. They don't have to bother with accuracey or facts, whatever they manufacture, folks lizard brains kick in and over-ride all logic centers....Me hate Obama..Socialist..Liberal..commie!!! AHHh Me no care about math.

I am not defending Obama...I am not saying the Volt is the best efen car ever...but whenever I point out the simplest of facts or math that expose the article as BS everyone seems to scream about socialism or how horrible Obama is?...This debate is apparently not about facts...it is about emotion and wanting to believe your worldview is absolutely the way it is.

Just crazy town on this thread. Have at it...it's gettin kinda weird here with me repeating basic math and you pretending you can't understand it.



Setting it Straight: Chevy Volt vs. the Government
www.thestreet.com...

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Would you agree to give the plan however it was conceived 5 years from 2010 please before you make a judgement as a report from the other day said that GM is on track to shatter 2011 model year sales reports!

No, General Motors got money illegally, defrauded their rightful and constitutionally garaunteed bondholders and never resolved any of their underlying fiscal issues. They do not deserve our money regardless of how you attempt to spin the situation.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Until you blackout on the banks as you are doing GM now Up until 2008 GM had one of the best corporate credit ratings and was tops and that doesn't qualify them from getting a loan.

Why do you constantly invent things and think no one will double check your propaganda?

General Motors credit rating followed a mostly downward trajectory from 1981 to when it should have entered bankruptcy court:

Nov 1981 -- Lowered AAA/A-1+ to AA+/A-1+
Nov 1986 -- Lowered AA+/A-1+ to AA/A-1+
Dec 1987 -- Lowered AA/A-1+ to AA-/A-1+
Feb 1991 -- Lowered AA-/A-1+ to A/A-1
Mar 1992 -- Lowered A/A-1 to A-/A-1
Feb 1993 -- Lowered A-/A-1 to BBB+/A-2
Oct 1995 -- Raised BBB+/A-2 to A-/A-2
Jan 1998 -- Raised A-/A-2 to A/A-1
Oct 2001 -- Lowered A/A-1 to BBB+/A-2
Oct 2002 -- Lowered BBB+/A-2 to BBB/A-2
Oct 2004 -- Lowered BBB/A-2 to BBB-/A-3
May 2005 -- Lowered BBB-/A-3 to BB/B-1
Oct 2005 -- Lowered BB/B-1 to BB-/B-2
Dec 2005 -- Lowered BB-/B-2 to B/B-3

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Taxes make sure that the nation can afford essential services as if you don't want to pay taxes don't dare call the Fire Dept when your house is in flames, let it burn down right to the ground.
Don't dare to call the cops when someone is attacking you or your family, taxes pays for that!

You seem to be getting property taxes confused with our federal tax dollars that General Motors got as a gift. One has nothing to do with the other, learn how simple economics operates.

When a power line is down in your yard you might as well fix it yourself and don't dare call the city to fix it.

Uh, why would I call the city? I would call my utility provider who is the one that would handle the situation.

Might as well have a cement mixer, road roller and scrapper trucks for when your street gets cracked because taxes pays for that.

Once again, property/municipality taxes, not 'General Motors free gift of federal tax dollars' taxes.

You are a habitual thread derailer, lacing topics with deadly and off-topic nuggets of ignorance. Just like these.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Notice a trend here, the downgrades began when the SCUM's plans started to take effect in the early 80's! When the entire mess we are now seeing the end result of all began! Classico leveraging campaign and tactic!

ALL BECAUSE GM REFUSES TO BOW TO THE BILDERBERG GROUP AND THE SCUM! Notice that GM has never attended one Bilderberg meting and those who do year after year see record sales growth while those who are against them like GM are always getting shafted and attacked! Allegiance means more to these people then laws, freedoms!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


GM Never got any free money. Where the heil are you pulling this out from?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


So it's better to let them fall and put 25 Million more out of work that would've more then tripled the current unemployment status by having the current 8.6% be north of 27 - 30%. Would've that been acceptable?

Like I said, it's easier to let an American company fall and put more out of work which would've sent the stock market into a deathspiral to the point where right now the DJIA would've been at less then 3,000 pts as a direct result.

This ripple wouldn't've just stopped at GM, Ford and Chrysler but would've continued to ripple into companies like Western Star, Kenworth, Pierce Manufacturing, Osh Kosh, Force Protection, Peterbilt, Colet, E-One, American LaFrance, Autocar, International, Case IH, Tucker Terra, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Norththorp-Grumman, airports, commercial shipping companies, private shipping companies, recycling companies, construction companies, heavy duty shipping and transportation companies, raw materials manufactueres and harvesters, farming communities and every single company that relies on and employs heavy machinery. That is how vast the entire US Automotive and Transportation Industry is! This would've eventually continued until it affected The US Dept Of Defense and even into The US Federal Government!

Now do you get why this was needed for?

If you think that the banks not getting money would've ended up bad for us, take out the auto industry and the global economy collapses soon afterwards as every single aspect of the economy both domestically and internationally as it would've been felt for decades if the automotive industry would've collapsed. Every single industry and business employs transportation.

I will take it a step further and say to give them A LOAN was a bright idea as it stopped the fall of not only The US but the rest of the world as well.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Notice a trend here, the downgrades began when the SCUM's plans started to take effect in the early 80's! When the entire mess we are now seeing the end result of all began! Classico leveraging campaign and tactic!

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the mediocre cars, poor labor contracts and mismangement. Do you even understand how bond ratings work?

ALL BECAUSE GM REFUSES TO BOW TO THE BILDERBERG GROUP AND THE SCUM! Notice that GM has never attended one Bilderberg meting and those who do year after year see record sales growth while those who are against them like GM are always getting shafted and attacked! Allegiance means more to these people then laws, freedoms!

Oh, really? According to Bilderberg.org (a site that monitors and exposes the meetings and minutes) General Motors Chief Executive Officer (that is the guy in charge if you were curious) attended in 1999. Anything else you need me to Google for you?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
GM Never got any free money. Where the heil are you pulling this out from?

This has been posted again and again. The money that is lost to the plunging stock prices which the United States taxpayers are left holding and the defrauding of the rightful bondholders. Do you still not see this?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
So it's better to let them fall and put 25 Million more out of work that would've more then tripled the current unemployment status by having the current 8.6% be north of 27 - 30%. Would've that been acceptable?

*yawn* I get tired of explaining chapter 11 debt restructuring to you every page. Look it up, it does not mean the company evaporates.

If you think that the banks not getting money would've ended up bad for us, take out the auto industry and the global economy collapses soon afterwards as every single aspect of the economy both domestically and internationally as it would've been felt for decades if the automotive industry would've collapsed. Every single industry and business employs transportation.

*double yawn* Under chapter 11 debt restructuring they would have still been producing (crappy) automobiles and would have not stopped the assembly lines.

I will take it a step further and say to give them A LOAN was a bright idea as it stopped the fall of not only The US but the rest of the world as well.

You sound just like the President when he claims to have averted a depression with his magically magical magicness.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


By 2016 a full review of what is left on the balance sheets will be re-examined and actions will be taken no earlier then that.

Did you honestly expect them to sell 10 Million cars and have the stock price to $50 a share within 2 years?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The wholesale fleecing of America that The SCUM attempted to do (for the most part it's been stopped cold) recently to get rid of every single American company by destroying them systematically.

Facts remain are the following :
1. The 09 - present Corvette ZR1 is the most prolific and dominant American car in recent memory as cars for as high as $500k can't touch it or are even in the same category all for a cost of $125,000. 628 bhp Twin Turbo Superchaged Corvette LS9 V8 topping at 220!
2. Corvette Racing has produced more victories of any manufactuer in the last decade (this includes Ferrari, Audi, Mercedes, BMW).
3. The ZR1 will smoke just about anything by Ferrari (but the Enzo, 599XX, FXX), Lamborghini (but Aventador LP700-4 and Murcielago LP670-4 SV), smoke anything Porsche, Lotus, Aston Martin (but the One-77), Bentley,
4. Only the BMW M5 could devastate the Cadillac CTS-V Series family and can smoke just about any Mercedes AMG, Audi RS-Audi S, or BMW M models.
5. The Chevrolet Suburban is the longest running and oldest continuous nameplate on the planet (2012 marks it's 76th year of production)! Longer then the Beetle, Toyota Corolla, Nissan Skyline/GT-R, Ford F Series Pickups, Corvette!, Mercedes SL Klasse, Porsche 911.
6. GM had one of the earliest defense contracts ever of any company and provided vehicles and equipment for both World Wars!
7. Everytime GM announces a new Corvette the entire auto industry becomes scared!