It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Government Motors Volt Costs Taxpayers $250,000 per Vehicle

page: 14
25
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 07:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Did you honestly expect them to sell 10 Million cars and have the stock price to $50 a share within 2 years?


I honestly expected to not have my, or anyone else's, tax dollars flushed down the toilet that is General Motors. If you, or anyone else, wanted to make a donation then you should have done so. Charity is not compulsory, when it is it is called fascism.




posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:00 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Whoever said that the money was free and that it was a charity? Nothing was a charity as they were told they have between 10 - 20 years to pay it back or else all property everything would be auctioned off to the highest bidder to pay the taxpayer back. Besides it's GOVERNMENT'S MONEY AND NOT YOURS! The taxpayer was in no real threat and continues to remain in no real threat of losing the investment.

Why? Because AN AMERICAN COMPANY WHO KEEPS EMPLOYING AMERICANS IN AMERICA is the epitome of evil?

Twisting words, levying character assassinations, issuing false claims, spinning facts is a classico sign of the defeated and that is precisely what you are doing here.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Facts remain are the following :...


All your Corvette, CTS and Suburban fawning is irrelevant. Address the topic and the points, particularly the ones you got wrong (Jack Smith, taxes, defrauding of bondholders, etc, etc.) and stop turing this into the one-man lame-o version of Top Gear.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:14 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


No one got swindled, defrauded, scammed out of anything and where the flip are you getting this info from?

If you think it's a scam call up The US Securties & Exchange Commission but they won't take your report because even they know no one was scammed, defrauded or swindled!

Telling me to stop when you are blatantly obvious that you cannot hit on facts and continue talking points written by The SCUM!

Bernie Madoff was a scam artist, GM is not!
edit on 3-1-2012 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Whoever said that the money was free and that it was a charity?


Once more because you ignore things:



Originally posted by jdub297
GM still owes $28,000,000,000 (51billion delivered, 23 billion returned)

We still own 26% of GM stock, which has dropped like a rock since the IPO.


quote.morningstar.com...

We have lost another $16,500,000,000 since we took ownership.

28,0 + 16,5 = $44.5 billion down the tubes!


This will never be payed back.


Besides it's GOVERNMENT'S MONEY AND NOT YOURS! The taxpayer was in no real threat and continues to remain in no real threat of losing the investment.


What!? Not my money? Where do you think the United States Federal Government gets tax dollars? The giant tax money tree growing behind the Treasury Building? Are you completely oblivious? The taxpayer is jeopardized by this bailout because the deep and critical underlying flaws that caused General Motors to require bankruptcy were not addressed.


Why? Because AN AMERICAN COMPANY WHO KEEPS EMPLOYING AMERICANS IN AMERICA is the epitome of evil?


No, because corporate welfare and crony capitialism are.


Twisting words, levying character assassinations, issuing false claims, spinning facts is a classico sign of the defeated and that is precisely what you are doing here.


Right, because I was the one who mentioned no one at General Motors attended Bilderberg, I was the one who did not know how municipal taxes operate, I was the one who claimed General Motors had great crediting ratings right up until they imploded, I was the one who brings up irrelevant points, while overly chubbed-up, about the Corvette, I was the one who does not understand Chapter 11 debt restructuring, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

Get a clue and stop projecting. Address the points and stop your habitual derailing with irrelevance and banality.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:27 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Chairman Of GM since 1990 :
Robert C. Stempel -- August 1, 1990 - November 1, 1992
John G. Smale -- November 2, 1992 - December 31, 1995
John F. "Jack" Smith, Jr. -- January 1, 1996 - April 30, 2003
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. -- May 1, 2003 - March 30, 2009
Kent Kresa -- March 30, 2009 - July 10, 2009
Edward ("Ed") Whitacre, Jr. -- July 10, 2009 – December 31, 2010
Dan Akerson -- December 31, 2010 – present

CEO of GM since 1990 :
Robert C. Stempel -- August 1, 1990 - November 1, 1992
John F. "Jack" Smith, Jr. -- November 2, 1992 - May 31, 2000
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. -- June 1, 2000 - March 30, 2009
Frederick A. "Fritz" Henderson -- March 30, 2009 - December 1, 2009
Edward ("Ed") Whitacre, Jr. -- December 1, 2009 – September 1, 2010
Dan Akerson -- September 1, 2010 – present

No mention of these like 9 people!



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
No one got swindled, defrauded, scammed out of anything and where the flip are you getting this info from?


Really? What happened to the primary and rightful bondholders? Explain to me in detail what happened to thier property.

If you think it's a scam call up The US Securties & Exchange Commission but they won't take your report because even they know no one was scammed, defrauded or swindled!

Considering this was done by executive fiat the Securities & Exchange Comission was marginalized by the entire fradualent transaction.


Telling me to stop when you are blatantly obvious that you cannot hit on facts and continue talking points written by The SCUM!


How is Jack 'Bilderberg' Smith O Factual One?


Bernie Madoff was a scam artist, GM is not!


They both are, the exception being that somoene in a very high place decided that a bunch of corporate welfare and crony capitalism was in order.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Chairman Of GM since 1990 :
Robert C. Stempel -- August 1, 1990 - November 1, 1992
John G. Smale -- November 2, 1992 - December 31, 1995
John F. "Jack" Smith, Jr. aka: Bilderberg attendee-- January 1, 1996 - April 30, 2003
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. -- May 1, 2003 - March 30, 2009
Kent Kresa -- March 30, 2009 - July 10, 2009
Edward ("Ed") Whitacre, Jr. -- July 10, 2009 – December 31, 2010
Dan Akerson -- December 31, 2010 – present

CEO of GM since 1990 :
Robert C. Stempel -- August 1, 1990 - November 1, 1992
John F. "Jack" Smith, Jr. Look! Me again! -- November 2, 1992 - May 31, 2000
G. Richard Wagoner, Jr. -- June 1, 2000 - March 30, 2009
Frederick A. "Fritz" Henderson -- March 30, 2009 - December 1, 2009
Edward ("Ed") Whitacre, Jr. -- December 1, 2009 – September 1, 2010
Dan Akerson -- September 1, 2010 – present

No mention of these like 9 people!


*triple yawn* You said 'no one' attended Bilderberg, I gave you 'someone', and that someone happened to be the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the Board (for the slow ones that means he ran the entire show).

Do you wish to play again?






edit on 3-1-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Indigo5
Just found this...I have to assume that I am not the only person on ATS that understands math"


No, but you are among the many Obama supplicants who take Media Matters at its word, as if they had any credibility outside of the "progessive" movement.





Finally, the $250,000 figure assumes that the full $3 billion in subsidies that has been awarded will be spent. But as Hohman acknowledges, it is "unlikely that all the companies involved in Volt production will ever receive all the $3 billion in incentives ... because many of them are linked to meeting various employment and other milestones."

mediamatters.org...

Again...anyone can argue that the Gov should invest in the Auto Industry, but you can still cling to rational thought by understanding the OP Claim is BS.


How sad that you adhere to the leftist BS that permeates denial of the fact that the Volt rides on the backs of taxpayers.

Hohman took into account the fact that future subsidies may be contingent upon production and sales.
Given that your ilk insist that 20 to 65 million Volts and their progeny will be sold, these figures seem justified! Are you now contending that Volt sales will NOT be as robust as it adherents have prophesized?

It’s unlikely that all the companies involved in Volt production will ever receive all the $3 billion in incentives, Hohman said, because many of them are linked to meeting various employment and other milestones. But the analysis looks at the total value that has been offered to the Volt in different aspects of production – from the assembly line to the dealerships to the battery manufacturers. Some tax credits and subsidies are offered for periods up to 20 years, though most have a much shorter time frame.
...
Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

www.michigancapitolconfidential.com...

Of course, the numbers could just as easily go higher, but you take no account of that eventuality, do you?

Face it. If Hohman, the Mackinac Institute, or any other source ( including GM) were wrong, you would've heard GM howling, loudly protesting the story.

Instead, what does GM, or the Obama administration, do? Nothing!

You can use all the liberal biased sources you want, but they do not change the facts: GM doesn't dispute the accounting; and, the costs could be substantially higher than projected!

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:39 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


We are not losing anything, in a few years time this will be re-examined and if it is determined to be a failure then they get taken over, split up and sold off. This is the fallback plan!



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:42 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


No entry :
A - Scholten, Rudolf - Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG.
D - Schrempp, Jurgen E. - Chairman of the Board of Management, Daimler Chrysler AG.
DK - Seidenfaden, Toger - Editor-in-Chief, Politiken
USA - Shapiro, Robert B. - Chairman and CEO, Monsanto Company.
RUS - Shevtsova, Lilia - Carnegie Moscow Center.
P - Silva, Artur Santos - President and CEO, BPI Group.
E - Solbes Mira, Pedro - Member of Parliament, Socialist Party.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
We are not losing anything, in a few years time this will be re-examined and if it is determined to be a failure then they get taken over, split up and sold off. This is the fallback plan!


Again, it should not have been the fallback plan, taking taxpayer money for cronyism and corporate wellfare goes against everything that the United States Constitution admonishes.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
No entry :
A - Scholten, Rudolf - Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG.
D - Schrempp, Jurgen E. - Chairman of the Board of Management, Daimler Chrysler AG.
DK - Seidenfaden, Toger - Editor-in-Chief, Politiken
USA - Shapiro, Robert B. - Chairman and CEO, Monsanto Company.
RUS - Shevtsova, Lilia - Carnegie Moscow Center.
P - Silva, Artur Santos - President and CEO, BPI Group.
E - Solbes Mira, Pedro - Member of Parliament, Socialist Party.


Stop posting irrelevant crap and use the link I provided.



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:55 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


So giving tax breaks and subsides for corporations who send jobs overseas and giving subsidies to oil for keeping us on the black death is accepted?

This is NOT CORPORATE WELFARE!



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:56 PM
link   
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Totally relevant as you said Mr. Smith was a Bilderberg 99 attendee and the attendee list does not list him.

Shot down!



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 08:59 PM
link   
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


the fact that 25 Million don't have to worry about where their job is going to be tomorrow but all back the banks blindly and refuse to talk yap on them out of a fear it "might scare away the job creators and financiers".

Until you blackout on the banks as you are doing GM now Up until 2008 GM had one of the best corporate credit ratings and was tops and that doesn't qualify them from getting a loan.


GM was trash going into 2009 and you know it. It couldn't finance its way out of the death spiral the UAW was driving it into. Ford found capital at the same time GM went into Obama's collection of state-run industry.

If you've followed anything I've posted (or had a grown-up read them to you), then you would know I am as vehemently opposed to Obama's take-overs of AIG BofA, CITI, SEIU and AFSCME, as well as others propped-up through artificial market manipulation.

You have no idea what has happened, but what your liberal handlers feed you to mis-understand and mis-represenr.


This is a template program that will allow the Federal Government to loan money to companies directly without involving or needed the foreign controlled and operated Federal Reserve as the private control ends at the end of this year.


Where on Earth do you think the "Federal Government" gets funds to 'loan money to companies?"

First, the Federal Government get funds from the sale of debt; to buyers like China, Japan and the ECB. Second, federal loans have been politically directed under the Obama adminstration without regard to economics or market justification. Just look at Solyndra, Johnson Controls, GM et al for proof.
Finally, when the Fed is already whispering about QE3, how can you pretend to believe that all this will end this year?

deny ignorance

lw



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
So giving tax breaks and subsides for corporations who send jobs overseas and giving subsidies to oil for keeping us on the black death is accepted?

This is NOT CORPORATE WELFARE!


Once more, because I know you have a prediliction towards histronics and need to ask the same questions in an inflamatory manner and with great use of exclaimation points, I do not agree with giving any company taxpayer money. No subsidies, no wellfare, no bailouts, nothing. Do you understand this time or are you going to make me repeat myself again?



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:13 PM
link   
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


OWS is demanding that a company who got a loan is to pay it back and GM is adhering to all agreements!


Look, you may have decided not to go to my links, but the fact is tht GM will never pay back at least $60,000,000,000 in subsidies($18,000,000,000), bailouts ($28,000,000,000) and unlawful IRS tax waivers ($14,000,000,000).


These figures are well-documented, and do not take into account the additional costs to taxpayers that coddling the UAW and supporting crony industrialists will add to the ultimate costs.Just look at what Obama's "Chief of Employment," Jeff "GE" Immelt, will get from taxpayers for playing "Yes man" to Obama, and you will see that the taxpayers are sibsidizing Obama's cronies and supporters in the tens of billions of dollars.

You either have no integrity, no conscience, or no common sense.
You cannot simultaneously support OWS, American jobs, the free market and GM's never-ending bailout, or the crony capitalism underpinning the fascist approach to business of the Obama adminstration.
jw



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Totally relevant as you said Mr. Smith was a Bilderberg 99 attendee and the attendee list does not list him.

Shot down!


Unlike you I actually put links with my information and the one I provided shows him as an attendee. Maybe when you find yours I can show you where you went wrong with this too....



posted on Jan, 3 2012 @ 09:19 PM
link   
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


GM WAS NOT A THEFT!


Obama and GM pissed on the preferred bondholders in the bankruptcy, contrary to law and the Constitution.
GM received a $14,000,000,000 credit against future income taxes contrary to law and the Constitution.

It is a thief from the American public, its bondholders and its former shareholders.

jw

edit on 3-1-2012 by jdub297 because: sp



new topics

top topics



 
25
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join