Stephen Hawking: Alien contact could be risky

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Current estimates with an Alcuiberre "warp" Drive, would require the conversion of mass equal to Jupiter into energy. Thats nowhere near the size of the Sun.

It is still massive beyond being practical. Do you realize Jupiter is 2.5 times more massive than all the other planets in our solar system combined?

So, we take away Jupiter from out system and an advanced species "jumps" into Sol, using the last of their fuel. What do they have left to harvest for fuel? Oh right, all the other planets.

The Paranoid Schizophrenia quotient in this thread is palpable.

Example:

Stephen Hawking used to be awesome when the things he was saying matched my delusions of aliens. Now that Stephen Hawking doesn't agree with me he must be..

1. Working for the government.
2. Working for the aliens.
3. Not as smart as everyone thought.

Wake up to your own delusions, people.

Originally posted by JohnCreed777
reply to post by chrismicha77

 

Woohoo! It's nice to see a scientist actually admit that other intelligent life could exist, maybe we can have hope now.

It seems to me that almost all scientist feel that intelligent ET life almost certainly exists. Any scientist who understands the size and scope of the Universe (which is basically ALL scientists) that I have ever heard generally thinks that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe -- and probably even the galaxy.

I mean, look at the Drake equation from 50 years ago (developed by a scientist, Dr, Frank Drake). Scientists may argue over the values for the variables in the Drake equation, but I don't think there are any who argue about the implications of that equation that says that the universe is so huge that odds are other intelligent life exists somewhere out there.

You may be confusing the erroneous idea that scientists in general don't believe in ETs somewhere in the universe with the question as to whether or not the earth is being visited by those ETs -- which is a different question altogether.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
You may be confusing the erroneous idea that scientists in general don't believe in ETs somewhere in the universe with the question as to whether or not the earth is being visited by those ETs -- which is a different question altogether.

Precisely.

While the vastness of our universe almost certainly guarantees there is life out there, it is the same immensity that makes me doubt we have ever, or will ever be visited by others. In fact, the sheer scale of the universe may forever prohibit us from finding other intelligence species.

With billions of galaxies in the known universe (and some scientists think the known universe may be as little as .01% of what is really out there), and each galaxy having upwards of one trillion suns, each with the possibily of its own planets, the logistics of combing the universe for life is staggering and so beyond the proverbial needle in a haystack its rediculous.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


All good points. You gave me something to chew on. Thanks!

reply to post by nightbringr


Yeah but you'd only need a small percentage of civilizations to be so evolved that they've mastered time/space travel and have abilities to find out where there's life from the comfort of their home planets/spaceships.

They use plenty of resourses from "their" Planet Earth and simple resources such as soil, water, plants & trees.......your Gods which are THE CREATOR'S known as the Elder's use these things to create (terraform) other locations out there.

As with everything you have been programmed to fear and our Governments use these threats to keep you in fear wake up.......... if the Beings wanted to do you in there would be no problem it would be fast......but as I see it hopefully many will wake up and finally realize the lies..........when the coming event takes place (and it is coming) these evil aliens you have been programmed to know of................will save as many of your sorry BUTTS as possible.

If anything Alien related bad happens it will be a false flag by our government this Planet is protected.....

Originally posted by ConspiracyTruth
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Yeah but you'd only need a small percentage of civilizations to be so evolved that they've mastered time/space travel and have abilities to find out where there's life from the comfort of their home planets/spaceships.

And how do you propose they do this?

Search the skies for radio signals that travel very slowly? So slowly that by the time they reach the next galaxy, it would take over a million light years for the signal to arrive? How do you propose they are able to travel time? Are you aware of the grandfather paradox or other issues with time travel? Are you simply assuming these things are going to be possibe for these species? Why do you make such assumptions?

Originally posted by ConspiracyTruth
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Yeah but you'd only need a small percentage of civilizations to be so evolved that they've mastered time/space travel and have abilities to find out where there's life from the comfort of their home planets/spaceships.

And they have to find us. A tiny little spec of something smaller than dust when compared to the vastness of the Universe.

You may say "it should be easy to find us from our radio signals we've been pumping out for 90 years and the TV signals we've been pumping out for 60 years"...

...HOWEVER, first of all, it it was so easy, then why can't we hear the signals of other civilizations? Secondly, the "bubble" around us that our radio signals has so far reached is only a 90-lightyear radius (180 LY diameter), and that, too, is a very, very, very miniscule portion of the universe.

Basically, I'm saying that there could be other civilizations out there, but the hugeness of the universe could mean that they have not noticed our existence.

reply to post by nightbringr


These are ridiculous, and sorry - but a little bit arrogant, questions!!! How would I know? I'm a human being and my fellow human beings have only begun to travel in space, what little we know!!! You'd only need a handful of civilizations, of ALL the ET life out there, to be advanced enough to have cracked mysteries like that, for it to be plausible that they'd find us (covertly or overtly). It's not like all ET life out there would have to be so far beyond us.. beyond our imaginations... you'd just need a percentage of it to be.

We're already discovering that light isn't necessarily the fastest particle out there... "Similarly, the apparent discovery of faster-than-light particles raises more questions than it answers." www.telegraph.co.uk... There's much we have to learn. I reckon we don't know more than we know.

I'm on the fence about whether they have visited us or not. I love the subject and used to blog about it, don't get me wrong : ), but I'm waiting on a Smoking Gun before I make up my mind either way.

True story: a journalist friend of mine (he even interviewed Hunter S Thompson!) says he talked to an astronaut who admitted that he's seen white orbs observing him when in space... but that the orbs weren't threatening, but that they just watched. Don't know what to make of this, just sharing.


Other astronauts' interesting insights:

Buzz Aldrin, monolith on Mars' moon: www.youtube.com..., and UFO incident: www.youtube.com...
Edgar Mitchell, asking for disclosure: www.youtube.com...
Clark McClelland says aliens are real: www.youtube.com...
Can't find link, but a Canadian female astronaut has also chimed in on this subject... saying there were structures on some other moon or planet in our solar system

Originally posted by ConspiracyTruth
We're already discovering that light isn't necessarily the fastest particle out there... "Similarly, the apparent discovery of faster-than-light particles raises more questions than it answers." www.telegraph.co.uk... There's much we have to learn. I reckon we don't know more than we know.

I agree. There are many things we do not know. I find particle physics fascinating and read up often on these things. However, there is simply no reason to believe that even if a particle can travel faster than light, we will be able to ourselves. I am convinced if we are ever to do such a thing, it will be the "folding space" scenerio.

Originally posted by RandalFlagg
I'm on the fence about whether they have visited us or not. I love the subject and used to blog about it, don't get me wrong : ), but I'm waiting on a Smoking Gun before I make up my mind either way.

Fair enough. While i am convinced life is out there, the vastness of our universe is what makes me doubt we have ever been visited. I simply do not see any means they would have to discover us besides jumping about the known universe, one system at a time to check for radio signals or other clues. Perhaps advanced technology will make it easier, but i cannot fathom how. Any ideas yourself? Some kind of "life force detector" that can sense life on the other side of the universe with speeds many millions of times the speed of light? Excuse my skepticism, but i doubt it.

Originally posted by RandalFlagg
True story: a journalist friend of mine (he even interviewed Hunter S Thompson!) says he talked to an astronaut who admitted that he's seen white orbs observing him when in space... but that the orbs weren't threatening, but that they just watched. Don't know what to make of this, just sharing.

Hunter Thompson? The inventor of "gonzo jounalism"? Your kidding me right? You do know his schtik was to take a story, and inflate it so much that the end product was almost unrecognizable. And yeah, say what you want about astronauts, but they are human like anyone else. They make mistakes. I am only slightly more inclined to believe their stories over Bob from Nebraska who say lights in the sky on a saturday night. Astronauts as far as i know are not trained to spot ET's. I could be wrong.

reply to post by ConspiracyTruth


Right.

And considering we don't know if aliens have the ability to easily stumble upon us, we can't assume that they have ever stumbled upon us. Like I said, the Universe is huger than huge, and a tiny spec like Earth, with only a 180 light year diameter (90 light year radius) bubble of radio communication signals emanating from it, can very easily go unnoticed...Unnoticed by other civilizations that perhaps never had occasion to come as close as 90 light years from us to even hear those radio signals in the first place.



As for Buzz Aldrin, that thing he saw is still not "positively" identified, but the explanation that it was one of the four SLA panels from the S-IVB stage of the Saturn 5 launch vehicle is a very plausible explanation (andm in my opinion, it is a quite probable one).

The SLA panels (or "Spacecraft Lunar Module Adapter" panels) were 4 large panels that acted as the transition piece between the S-IVB upper stage of the Saturn-5 and the command module, and covered The LEM (Lunar Module) at launch. The S-IVB had a known trajectory that took it beyond the Earth's gravity well, but the trajectory of the SLA panels were not tracked, and one or more could have also gone beyond earth, following along with the Command Module on the way to the Moon.



Edgar Mitchell is simply a person who believes in ET visitation, and who became an astronaut. He had believed in ETs even BEFORE he became an astronaut -- his beliefs are not CAUSED BY his being an astronaut.

Mitchell himself has said that his belief is just his personal belief and does NOT come from any specific "secret" knowledge he learned as an astronaut. He's just some guy who believes in ET visitation, just like a lot of people. Mitchell just happened to be a believer in ET visitation who decide to become an astronaut -- and I'm sure his belief was a factor in his choice of professions.

reply to post by nightbringr


Oh I mean I have fanciful ideas not based in science, but more so in imagination. I just don't think it's plausible that we'd be able to even GUESS at what more advanced ETs would/could be capable of. Could be that there are huge limits to time and space travel that are universal for even the most advanced civilizations, or could be there that are no limits. Just no way for us to know. If you compare ants to our intelligence, I just imagine it would be the same leap comparing us to someone centuries to thousands to millions of years more evolved - that's all. It really is true that anything and everything is possible.

And I don't think Hunter S Thompson was a true journalist : ) Just an interesting guy who would be cool to interview.

And I do agree if ETs have visited and we're aware of them, that astronauts are not "in" on it. Most UFOs - if they are ET - could just be unmanned satellites or they could come from portals on Earth or be time traveling devices... who knows ! ha

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


We can't assume ANYTHING. That's my point. We can't even begin to really know what's out there and if there is ET out there, what they're capable of - and honestly, if they've ever interacted with our planet, in the past or present. It's silly to be CERTAIN they've visited (at least for me it would be, for others with more tangible evidence - I have no judgements) or to be CERTAIN they haven't or couldn't.

And I hear what you're saying about the astronauts... but the fact that more than a few astronauts suspect there is a UFO cover up or claim to have experienced UFO encounters should be considered. I wasn't providing those cases as the best witness testimonies or UFO cases, by the way, they hardly match up to events like the Rendelsham incident.

reply to post by ConspiracyTruth


Someone saying that they don't think there is proof of ET visitation is NOT the same as someone saying they are certain ETs have not visited/are not visiting the Earth.

While I think it is possible that ETs have visited the Earth, I also feel that it is possible we have NOT been by ETs because the universe isso big, and we and our 90 light year radius of radio signals are very easy to overlook.

There are places on earth that humans have barely explored, and whole species of animals on Earth that humans have never happened across. I think the same may be true for the humans on Earth relative to other intelligent life in the Universe. They have simply never happened across us yet.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I see what you're saying, I'm just saying I don't doubt or bet anything. I think that's a little absurd... just as the universe is vast, so are the possible ET civilizations and the possible time that's already passed in this universe. Our very own earth has been around for billions of years. Imagine an ET civilization that hit its age of enlightenment at the time Earth was created... I mean to have an idea either way is just well, it's just an idea, not based on any proof of anything.

reply to post by ConspiracyTruth


All that we have proof is that we have no idea how big the universe is or how much time has passed before us.

Originally posted by ConspiracyTruth
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

...Our very own earth has been around for billions of years. Imagine an ET civilization that hit its age of enlightenment at the time Earth was created... I mean to have an idea either way is just well, it's just an idea, not based on any proof of anything...

Yes. The Earth has been around 4.5 Billion years, but we've only been broadcasting our existence (via our radio waves that leak out from Earth) for about 90 years. Therefore, another civilization would need to get as close as 90 light years to notice that there is a civilization on this planet -- a planet that may otherwse seem extremely "unremarkable".

Another civilization could have passed relatively close to us (say they passed by us 5 or 10 light-years away) just 100 years ago and not notice anything worth getting a closer look at...

OR

...another civilization could be passing by close to us RIGHT NOW (say 100 light-years away -- which is close, even in galactic terms) and have no way of telling we are here, because 100 light-years is farther than our radio signals.

So, yeah. The problem is time and distance. The time they passed by us could have been very recent (say at the time the Wright Brothers made their first flight), and the earth may have seemed quite average from a distance -- and there would be no radio waves coming from us. ALSO, the distance they are passing by right now could be just a bit farther out than our farthest radio signal has ever gone.

Well, Zorgon I know you and I over past times have tried to lead the animals to the water but it seems there have only been a few so far that had the sense to drink...............

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I'm sorry but this is just useless. Maybe they'll pick up our radio signals in our lifetime. Maybe they've already picked them up and don't care. Maybe they look for other things besides radio signals. I mean not you, not I, not anyone knows. To start hypothesizing about whether or not more advanced ETs will one day make it here, or even guessing about whether they've been here in the present or past, is just silly... we can assume our brains, and knowledge bank, are far punier than theirs. For all we know, we've got the fundamentals of physics and time travel and gravity completely wrong!

Good example:
If you were to transport back in time to a "past self" (just hypothetical) that existed just a CENTURY before you, just 100 years, your "past self" - same basic intelligence - would think many things impossible that are indeed very possible and in action today. So to start guessing about what a more advanced ET civilization hundreds to thousands to millions of years ahead of us is up to, is just, well, it's futile. So it's silly to doubt anything about them. Maybe the universe is TEEMING with life and more than one species has made some flybys already - there's so very little we know, there are too many unknown factors to have any real working theory about this stuff. But humans are best when they imagine in the face of such unknowns, versus limiting that imagination unnecessarily.