Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by dadgad

 

Exactly what evils arise out of having private property? By the way, what makes you think the upper crust at the Kremlin didn't get more of the spoils than the poor common proletariat with his little brown working man's cap? Did you know that the very people in the US Senate and House of Representatives who are advocating socialistic programs and health care are themselves extremely wealthy? Do you really believe Nancy Pelosi is going to give up her personal wealth and property for the common good of the proletariat?

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

The evils that result from private property are all around us. Someone is exceedingly rich, possesses great masses of land, which in turn deprives other people from necessities of survival.

Oh good hell.
Social Justice here we come.
That is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.

That works well, if the premise is that no one else besides that wealthy person is allowed to earn money on their own and become wealthy themselves.

Again, the fantasy of endless resources.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

 

Well...you seem to love the founding fathers.

Tell me...would you vote for a President who used the US Army to march on farmers to collect their taxes???


If not...you probably wouldn't vote for George Washington. Can you imagine if Obama did that today???

en.wikipedia.org...

Obama already does it.
The IRS is his standing Army.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Lot's of replies.... not time to read the entire set... just wanted to say....

The protection against the declarations of the political elite are all in the first paragraph www.abovetopsecret.com...

But you don't have to click on that link .. this is not about getting you to visit some old thread... it's this simple:

Since when is it the purview of the political party and her leaders to "educate" America about what our own lying eyes see of their works and agendas?

Since when does it matter that their tried-and-true strategy of "repeating the lie often enough" is now transparent and worn so thin they can no longer hide behined it?

Listen... many people are going to 'buy the crap these political celebrities are shoveling" simply because it makes them feel good... the media will find those people and make them appear to represent "Amercians" on TV for the remainder to be convinced that their declarations are not only beyond reporoach, but are the beloved pablum of our society.

There are two possiblities: Our political celebrity president either believes what he is saying, or is saying whay he "has to " say.

In either case, the proper response is to ignore him and the rest of his ilk as pontificating Machiavellian flim-flam showpeople.

Any who would believe that "it doesn't work" when the last century was spent not doing "it" would have to be what some refer to a sheep.

Not only did the Founders KNOW there was a danger of this kind in the form of representative goverment we chose to build, but they pointed it our clearly and specified the powers of the people explicitly.....

THAT is what they are worried about. THAT is what they can't afford to face in the open. THAT is what they cannot defend.

So stay tuned boys and girls for the inevitable to follow.... the baby-steps towards repainting the founders as "bad" people, and those who sought to resynthesize the Constitution (as they tried in the 19th century) as "heroes", rather than the duplicitous self-serving usurpers they are.

To everyone else I beg... please... pretty please.... read the Constitution.... it is NOT only for lawyers... it was never meant to be. Research history.... they are changing it as we speak... and TALK ABOUT IT... before it becomes suspect to care....

“The price good people pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil people.”
- Plato

reply to post by Maxmars
i am very suprised that this thread hasnt been shut down yet or moved to the hoax bin, it is such a waste of time, it has already been solidly debunked. read the posts people!!!
the quote in the opening article is a fabrication and the entire article it is taken from is an outright lie an piece of political propaganda...
where are the MODs when you need them.

Originally posted by Maxmars
Lot's of replies.... not time to read the entire set... just wanted to say....

The protection against the declarations of the political elite are all in the first paragraph www.abovetopsecret.com...

But you don't have to click on that link .. this is not about getting you to visit some old thread... it's this simple:

Since when is it the purview of the political party and her leaders to "educate" America about what our own lying eyes see of their works and agendas?

Since when does it matter that their tried-and-true strategy of "repeating the lie often enough" is now transparent and worm so thin they can no longer hide behined it?

Listen... many people are going to 'buy the crap these political celebrities are shoveling" simply because it makes them feel good... the media will find those people and make them appear to represent "Amercians" on TV for the remainder to be convinced that their declarations are not only beyond reporoach, but are the beloved pablum of our society.

There are two possiblities: Our political celebrity president either believes what he is saying, or is saying whay he "has to " say.

In either case, the proper response is to ignore him and the rest of his ilk as pontificating Machiavellian flim-flam showpeople.

Any who would believe that "it doesn't work" when the last century was spent not doing "it" would have to be what some refer to a sheep.

Not only did the Founders KNOW there was a danger of this kind in the form of representative goverment we chose to build, but they pointed it our clearly and specified the powers of the people explicitly.....

THAT is what they are worried about. THAT is what they can't afford to face in the open. THAT is what they cannot defend.

So stay tuned boys and girls for the inevitable to follow.... the baby-steps towards repainting the founders as "bad" people, and those who sought to resynthesize the Constitution (as they tried in the 19th century) as "heroes", rather than the duplicitous self-serving usurpers they are.

To everyone else I beg... please... pretty please.... read the Constitution.... it is NOT only for lawyers... it was never meant to be. Research history.... they are changing it as we speak... and TALK ABOUT IT... before it becomes suspect to care....

“The price good people pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil people.”
- Plato

Is your only argument to call the other a sheep?

More and more I realize that you and others behind you have absolutely no arguments for this crisis, except blaming the government and addressing the need to return to sound ethics. That's all.

How about questioning your system? I think Obama is completely right. It doesn't work and didn't work. It had the illusion of working, you have profited endlessly from brutal exploitation, but these times are coming to an end now. The system is eating it self up.

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by dadgad

 

Exactly what evils arise out of having private property? By the way, what makes you think the upper crust at the Kremlin didn't get more of the spoils than the poor common proletariat with his little brown working man's cap? Did you know that the very people in the US Senate and House of Representatives who are advocating socialistic programs and health care are themselves extremely wealthy? Do you really believe Nancy Pelosi is going to give up her personal wealth and property for the common good of the proletariat?

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

The evils that result from private property are all around us. Someone is exceedingly rich, possesses great masses of land, which in turn deprives other people from necessities of survival.

Oh good hell.
Social Justice here we come.
That is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.

That works well, if the premise is that no one else besides that wealthy person is allowed to earn money on their own and become wealthy themselves.

Again, the fantasy of endless resources.

Endless resources of what?
So, you are in the camp that wealth is finite, people can't make it themselves.
You are right. Stupid people *Forehead slap*, they need the Govt to do it for them. And show them how to do it, provide them everything to do it and if the dummy fails, be there it kiss the boo-boo, make it better and do it for them again, all with others people's money.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Yeah, and the Swiss didn't build their wealth by being the bank for the Nazi's and rich people.
Wonder how long other country's money will prop up yours?

Originally posted by CaDreamer
reply to post by Maxmars

 

i am very suprised that this thread hasnt been shut down yet or moved to the hoax bin, it is such a waste of time, it has already been solidly debunked. read the posts people!!!
the quote in the opening article is a fabrication and the entire article it is taken from is an outright lie an piece of political propaganda...
where are the MODs when you need them.

So why are you still replying and reading?

I am wrestling with this, I like Ron Paul but I think Obama is right here, if you don't have regulations on the financial system, then they will go back to doing the same dirty tricks that led to the financial crisis. I mean doesn't everyone agree they will go back to the same practices as soon as the regulations are lifted?

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Yeah, and the Swiss didn't build their wealth by being the bank for the Nazi's and rich people.
Wonder how long other country's money will prop up yours?

And the US didn't build up by stealing the land from the native Americans

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Yeah, and the Swiss didn't build their wealth by being the bank for the Nazi's and rich people.
Wonder how long other country's money will prop up yours?

And the US didn't build up by stealing the land from the native Americans

That is the best retort you have?

Sure sure. Ok then.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by dadgad

 

Exactly what evils arise out of having private property? By the way, what makes you think the upper crust at the Kremlin didn't get more of the spoils than the poor common proletariat with his little brown working man's cap? Did you know that the very people in the US Senate and House of Representatives who are advocating socialistic programs and health care are themselves extremely wealthy? Do you really believe Nancy Pelosi is going to give up her personal wealth and property for the common good of the proletariat?

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

The evils that result from private property are all around us. Someone is exceedingly rich, possesses great masses of land, which in turn deprives other people from necessities of survival.

Oh good hell.
Social Justice here we come.
That is the biggest load of crap I have ever read.

That works well, if the premise is that no one else besides that wealthy person is allowed to earn money on their own and become wealthy themselves.

Again, the fantasy of endless resources.

Endless resources of what?
So, you are in the camp that wealth is finite, people can't make it themselves.
You are right. Stupid people *Forehead slap*, they need the Govt to do it for them. And show them how to do it, provide them everything to do it and if the dummy fails, be there it kiss the boo-boo, make it better and do it for them again, all with others people's money.

Resources necessary for survival of course. Wealth is finite yes, resources are finite yes. Scarcity is a reality.

I pity your simplistic way of reasoning. Always blaming the government for everything. It's just a one way thought process.

But I would like to witness you living in a true free market. Probably you'd be the first to protest against the low wages and the evil factory bosses.

I'm trying to explain that as far as I'm concerned this a crisis of capitalism, created by capitalism, not state intervention, regulations, failed policies etc. The situation we are in is what capitalism leads to.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Yeah, and the Swiss didn't build their wealth by being the bank for the Nazi's and rich people.
Wonder how long other country's money will prop up yours?

And the US didn't build up by stealing the land from the native Americans

Oh, and not all the land was stolen.
Tribes were traded with for land, paid for land, and so on.

Still don't see how that compares to being the banking system for one of the Earths biggest Genocidal Groups, EVER.

This thread is indeed a joke, but I would like to add one thing.

I am trained as an economist. I can tell you what any economist would confirm: the free market sometimes produces perverse results. Furthermore, it sometimes works perfectly but produces results that are unacceptably inhumane.

There are many reasons for us to regulate our economy, to adjust outcomes, and to correct weaknesses in our markets. That DOES NOT mean throwing away capitalism. It DOES mean actually understanding economics and not relying on quasi-religious economic propaganda coming from people who are self-interested in the status quo.

Wake up, folks, what we need now is RATIONALITY, not blind faith in any orthodoxy, whether it comes from the Founding Fathers or Fox News or MSNBC or Barack Obama.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by kauskau
reply to post by macman

 

i dont say its perfect but we have more regulation and its better than in your country..the problem is that the big corporations are too free to do what they want...THATS the problem...and its called : free market.

You may have more regulation, but it is far from better.
So, instead of Corporations controlling the Govt, Germany has the Govt running amok on it's own.

Yeah

way better.

Except...until they had to bail out the rest of Europe, the Germany economy was a total powerhouse compared to the US post-2009. Lower unemployment than the US (faaaar lower), and hell...go to Switzerland and our unemployment is around 8-10% fo that in the US. And Switzerland has more government intervention than the US, that's for sure

Salaries are higher in Germany too, and healthcare's better too...

Yeah, and the Swiss didn't build their wealth by being the bank for the Nazi's and rich people.
Wonder how long other country's money will prop up yours?

And the US didn't build up by stealing the land from the native Americans

Oh, and not all the land was stolen.
Tribes were traded with for land, paid for land, and so on.

Still don't see how that compares to being the banking system for one of the Earths biggest Genocidal Groups, EVER.

ah well America bankers funded Hitler as well. (Bush, Rockefeller...)

Silly argument really.

reply to post by macman


How is my answer any worse than yours? You answer doesn't invalidate anything I said

As for trading with Native Americans...does that include handing out blankets infected with small pocks on purpose?

And do I really have to list the number of dictators the US supported over the years?

reply to post by Grumble

I am trained as an economist. I can tell you what any economist would confirm: the free market sometimes produces perverse results. Furthermore, it sometimes works perfectly but produces results that are unacceptably inhumane.

Finally someone who gets it!!!

You're spot on, and anyone who studied economics and isn't a bought sock-puppet would agree

It's unfortunate that it is taking extreme events for people to open their eyes to what is really going on in the US.

It is also unfortunate that there are so many people who refuse to pull the blinders from their faces.

Nothing will be better until we first fix what is broken.

When has throwing money at a problem ever fixed it?

I get it, the idealist Utopia where everybody is equal and there are magically no social problems anymore is appealing. But, it is extremely unrealistic. Idealism is nice to think about, but you cannot factor out human nature. Before we go head over heels into "MAKE US ALL THE SAME", I would prefer to at least make us all out of debt.

reply to post by macman


You are calling someone stupid?