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Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked

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posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by kauskau
my god i am reading all of the post here and really worry about america more and more... ..... Your system clearly does not work at ALL!

Buddy .. have you checked the state of Europe lately? No ... didn't think so. If the system over there works so well, then why is Italy on the brink financially? Why is lil' Timmy Gietner over there in meetings about having the USA BAIL OUT Europe. The answer - because of it's socialist entitlement society.

Now .. backatchya ... MY GOD I am reading your post here and really worry about Euros more and more ....




posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by bjarneorn
Your just an ignorant baffoon [sic] ... who is living in a hipe [sic], that you are a "good man" because you are a "leftist". You don't even have a moderate understanding of what "leftist" is referring to. Do you?


Are you an American? I'm not. But apparently, I know how to spell "buffoon" and "hype", and you don't. That tells me you aren't highly educated. Yes, I believe leftism is "good" and rightism is "bad". I in fact believe the labels "left" and "right" are chosen deliberately to lend credence to the notion that amoral and unethical policies are somehow the product of a "fair choice", between two "rivaling political factions". Nothing could be further from the truth.

At its core, leftism is about caring about somebody else, that is, acknowledging you live in a group of human beings, some of which need support and help from others, versus the social Darwinism you champion, which is somewhat of a misnomer, because Darwinism actually predicts survivability on several indicators, one of which is the ability to adapt and cooperate.

I am a true leftist, I believe in nationalization. I believe in human rights. I believe in regulation. I believe in government run health care. I am anti-racism, anti-sexism, I embrace the scientific method, that is, evolution, anthropogenic global warming and I reject the Bible, the Qur'an or the Torah. I believe in a salary cap and a minimum wage. I believe in unions. I believe in internationalism over nationalism. I believe in sustainable energy. I believe in honesty, integrity and I believe all men are fundamentally equal and valuable, and that any societal model should reflect this fact, differentiating only on the basis of meritocracy. I believe the market, to the extent it should even exist, should favor the rights of the consumer, not the producer, proportional to the size of the economic entities involved. I believe in freedom of speech. I renounce censorship. I believe in privacy, and I believe in human dignity. And so on and so forth.

Eat me, "baffoon".with your talk of "hipe". Next time you throw feeble-minded insults around and then sprinkle around ridiculous tidbits of factual incorrectness which painfully demonstrate your boorish ignorance, try learning to speak your own language properly first. Your rantings and ravings are the product of relentless propaganda brainwashing and historical revision (e.g. Jonah Goldberg, Glenn Beck), and it's actually pretty depressing to see.


Nice one! Yes, let's bring more leftist idea's into this place. It needs it.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by snowcrash911
 


Snowcrash I have to say it. I read two post by you up so far and I already love them. Your use of English is phenomenal, I'm almost jealous of it. I look forward to more posts.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by kauskau
my god i am reading all of the post here and really worry about america more and more... ..... Your system clearly does not work at ALL!

Buddy .. have you checked the state of Europe lately? No ... didn't think so. If the system over there works so well, then why is Italy on the brink financially? Why is lil' Timmy Gietner over there in meetings about having the USA BAIL OUT Europe. The answer - because of it's socialist entitlement society.

Now .. backatchya ... MY GOD I am reading your post here and really worry about Euros more and more ....


First of all. Try to get one thing through your thick skull. Europe is not one country.

We can discuss about the choice for creating the Euro currency, which by the way was just the product of liberal capitalism and not socialism.

Capitalism and its inherent destructive need for expansion is the root source for this crisis. What does socialism even have to do with it. You see, you just don't know what term means. You are an after generation of the Cold War era brought up in fear of socialism. You're more like a parrot really.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by dadgad
 


There is plenty of land around. I'm not sure how someone having lots of land deprives me of having land. Govt buys up land and then tells the citizens they cannot use the land, even for public use. The govt takes land from citizens by emminent domain. So John McCain having so many houses he doesn't know how many he has still doesn't deprive me of land, but govt can stop me from using land or take my property away.


Perhaps it doesn't deprive you, but it will deprive someone else. There is no way around it. As said before, resources and land are limited.

Government seizing land and not using it for common good is not that different in my opinion.

I am reminded of a quote by Zizek Slavoj (radical leftist philosopher), he said something like this about charity and private property. "It is amoral to try to alleviate the horrible evils that result from private property by using the institution of private property". Why is that? Because it was (according to him) the institution of private property that lead to the situation in the first place. With one hand you try to repair what you destroyed with the other.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Ok I'm going to be honest and say I'm not real sure what you mean by a resource based economy. All economy is based on one resource or another.


It is this Utopian system in which man recognizes it's evolutionary progress in terms of technical capabilities and realizes that the institution of money has become an obstacle for progress. It eliminates money entirely and focuses on managing earth resources in the most responsible and advanced ways possible. Problems are approached scientifically. Technology will become the major player in substituting human labor, anything that can be automatized will be automatized. A society in which humans will only have to do what is absolutely necessary. Humans are encouraged to do or become that what they have the most incentive for. It is recognized that everybody is unique and born different. Therefor stimulating each persons uniqueness will always contribute to the greater good.

I realize that it sounds frightening and perhaps even dystopian. And that is one of the reasons I don't see anything like this happen in any near future.

Capitalism does provide a small minority of the world with significant freedom compared to earlier times and compared to other societies around the world, and we are naturally deeply attached to it. Especially after centuries of oppression, this little freedom that we enjoy means the world to us.

At the same time, are we really free? I mean is being a wage slave being free? Are we really free living in full knowledge that devastating catastrophes are just around the corner? All this division, injustice, exploitation, ignorance, is this really "freedom''?
edit on 7-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)


That's interesting. It is kind of Utopian but in a kind of reminiscent of Atlantis sort of way. I believe it was Philos the Tibetan who revealed some things about Atlantis, such as advanced transportation. But I also read that people in Atlantis were able to take advantage of the magnetic energies of the earth, magnetic grids. I believe that was from a book discussing a possible Pole Shift of the earth and there was some kind of evidence that these magnetic grids existed in previous times, but the grids were changed. Even the monorail at Disney is based on magnetic principles and a friend of mine says he thinks Disney had memory of Atlantis.


I really know nothing about Atlantis. Did it even really exist?



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:20 AM
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Leftism has nothing to do with caring for others. It's about control so you can discount the rights of any minority. What you really want is to create a utopia and the hell with the means used to get there.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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I guess Obama is getting us ready for the New world government.

the rich mess up any and all governments.
so that they can get the biggest share.

the rich are vampires bleeding the world dry.
and I see NO way to stop it.
most people will take cash to brake the law
so that the rich can get even more rich!!!



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Not all founders were like that.... the founders are the ones who who fought for independence for the country NOT the ones who killed off the native Americans and did other evils



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
Leftism has nothing to do with caring for others. It's about control so you can discount the rights of any minority. What you really want is to create a utopia and the hell with the means used to get there.


Not at all. Certainly control is used to achieve goals believed to be for the better good. Like taxing the rich.
Or state controlled health care so that everyone is guaranteed medical treatment when needed.

Your beloved free market is a demon, a hungry usurping beast that will always seek to centralize itself, because centralization guarantees a position of power, which will guarantee the supreme goal which of course if profit, endless profit, more and more.

You have no answer or solution to this. The only thing you can do is blame the state, the government, the invisible elite, everyone expect yourself and the ideology you live by.




edit on 8-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:32 AM
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I agree in principal that, the founding fathers * whom I have GREAT Respect for * could not predict the future. No one man or small group can see All the pitfall's of social and economic times yet unseen.

The Founding father's did the very best they could 200 year's ago to provide a structure for us that prevents corruption, but let's face Fact's, it corrupted anyway. We're not driving horse and buggies to Congress anymore. Nuclear reactor's, Computer's, Cell Phones, Internet, Billion Dollar businesses stockpiling money; and moving job's out of our Country to avoid taxation; and provide themselves with lower waged employee's Etc Etc Etc were not accounted for.

The founding father's expected the people of this nation to protect our hard earned freedom's and cooperate together to keep our Nation safe, which is why they left such safeguard's in place; in plain sight; within document's such as the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

My fellow American's the times have changed, and we must change with them where ever needed in order to preserve what our forefather's struggled so hard to give us. Do Not mistake what I'm saying; we must Not give up our Individualism, our Freedom's, our Right's; Do Not take these things for granted; but we must cooperate together in order to change the system's where necessary to ensure our success and survival. . No system is infallible, and as we all know, things that don't evolve go extinct.

Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence which is a Legal Instrument signed in Congress. So Yes the Declaration of Independence can be used within Federal court.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

People need to stop letting Partisanship differences get in the way of solving our problem's as a Nation and a Business. What's really more important when your ship is sinking; arguing about who put a hole in the boat or cooperating and together bailing out the gosh dang boat! lol

We as a Nation are also a Business, and I really hope everyone understand's that. If not, then you should start looking at the Gross National Product of our business for one example. Like any business we must make a profit in order to pay our debts or we fail as a business! We must balance our budgets and pay our bill's or we will go belly up as a business and an entire Nation!

I am not normally one to involve myself with politics'. The system is corrupt and ruthless. The entrenched Dogma, which has set in over the centuries is overwhelming. I do not care of which political party a candidate is from.

I do care whether My President in Office cares about this Country, and whether or not he's trying to do the right thing. I do understand that he is one man fighting against a corrupt system. I Believe OUR Current President is attempting to shake up the system and the people to do the right thing. But he also Need's Our Help and Guidance as a Nation! I Certainly respect Any man or woman who has climbed all the way up to the Presidency and so should you.

It seems to me that the people are Always looking for the Next candidate for office instead of supporting and helping the current POTUS to do anything. Which is a huge part of why so little gets accomplished in this "revolving door system". If you don't agree with what he's doing - Email Him and give him advice, he is Your President!

I have Idea's to help the Nation and I believe a lot of you probably do as well. So why not try to Do something instead of bickering like a bunch of old men.


I propose the development of an Online Voting System for one. This would create an much larger voter turn out on all issues.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by dadgad
 


No, the ends do not justify the means. If bad happens in a free market it's because individuals were bad. My only answer to this is a return to morals, but leftism hates the idea of non-secular ethics.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Misoir
 


The founder were wrong on many things...slavery, not letting women vote, killing off the natives.

Why is it so surprising to you that people have differing opinions with the "founders"...they are irrelevant today...they aren't gods to be worshipped.

In todays world, the founders would be viewed as extremist idiots...I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.


Maybe you should learn the truth about the 3/5th's clause and read Frederick Douglass. In addition, it was Andrew Jackson we can blame where the natives are concerned, not the Founders.
edit on 8-12-2011 by saoirse33 because: forgot a s in Douglass



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:44 AM
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The free market never worked?
It never worked for who?
"People" like him?

You may not agree with everything he says but listen the Glenn Beck radio show and watch his tv show.
So get great insight and great coverage.

Find out what is going on daily



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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Money IS the root of most all evil.Capitalism is the worship of that.

Untill the system is changed all there will be inevitably is the have's and have nots.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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See what happens whan you illegally elect an illegal immigrant to the office of president. Why do you think the founding fathers made it so you had to be a natural born citizen? He has no knowlege of the founding of the country. For crying out loud the guy is a moslem. I don't care how many times he claims to be a christian. He's not plain and simple. He was raised moslem, went to a moslem school. Think that some indoctrination went on there? Seriously what do you expect? Doesn't indoctrination happen in christian religious schools. I have many friends who went to cathiolic school who can tell you about it.

Can't blame him on me I didn't vote for him. When they don't offer me a proper choice where at least one candidate is competant I don't vote. Look at what the "two parties" offer you to vote for Really Obama or Mcain. I don't vote for the lesser of two evils.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by dadgad
 


No, the ends do not justify the means. If bad happens in a free market it's because individuals were bad. My only answer to this is a return to morals, but leftism hates the idea of non-secular ethics.


Yes and that is why your position is so weak in my opinion. A return to morals, thats all you can come up with. Why not question the entire system itself? The system itself sets the platform for this immoral behavior. To survive within this structure this kind of behavior simply has become or always has been a necessity.

And you are damned right that I oppose non-secular ethics.
edit on 8-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Obama: Limited Gov't That Preserves Free Markets 'Doesn't Work. It Has Never Worked'


A few radical potheads do not know more than brave men who fought a revolution against an empire, much like the one you are running.


edit on 12/7/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)


Impeach. He just broke his oath.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Change we can be deceived in.


edit on 8-12-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Misoir
 


The founder were wrong on many things...slavery, not letting women vote, killing off the natives.

Why is it so surprising to you that people have differing opinions with the "founders"...they are irrelevant today...they aren't gods to be worshipped.

In todays world, the founders would be viewed as extremist idiots...I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.


No doubt you are an Out Kast and those who gave your comments a star can't be far behind since like Obama, you have little regard for our Constitution but unlike you who were probably born here and given everything on a silver platter, Obama did in fact have to swear allegiance to our Constitution; to protect and defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Guess his oath meant nothing to him, which makes him both a liar and traitor but you and people like you are just traitors, ungrateful ones at that. Just stand right where you are, you will be given an opportunity to stand for what you believe in very soon, as will everyone else in this country.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by MajorKarma

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Misoir
 


The founder were wrong on many things...slavery, not letting women vote, killing off the natives.

Why is it so surprising to you that people have differing opinions with the "founders"...they are irrelevant today...they aren't gods to be worshipped.

In todays world, the founders would be viewed as extremist idiots...I doubt if they would even get 1% of any vote.


No doubt you are an Out Kast and those who gave your comments a star can't be far behind since like Obama, you have little regard for our Constitution but unlike you who were probably born here and given everything on a silver platter, Obama did in fact have to swear allegiance to our Constitution; to protect and defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Guess his oath meant nothing to him, which makes him both a liar and traitor but you and people like you are just traitors, ungrateful ones at that. Just stand right where you are, you will be given an opportunity to stand for what you believe in very soon, as will everyone else in this country.


It's always the same with you people, oath this oath that, allegiance, constitution, traitors etc. Don't you ever get tired of being this rhetorical machine gun?
This is exactly the reason why we all know why it so hard to have a mature conversation with Americans. Somehow you embody the opposite of what your founding father believed in, freedom of speech and opinion and all that.
edit on 8-12-2011 by dadgad because: (no reason given)



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