Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!, page 55

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reply posted on 4-1-2012 @ 02:54 AM by colbe

Originally posted by LunaKat
Colbe, The first Christians are DEAD. All of the players in the Bible are DEAD. While they were alive they were no better than the rest of us. The Bible did not fall down from the sky completely written. The Bible is myth told by people no better (and in many ways a lot worse) than people today.

You put all your faith in a bunch of words that were received by what your church would call imperfect human beings. Words Colbe... just words. That thing that causes wars. And they are words that make hearts cold because they come not from love, not from a loving God, but from a very divisive one.

Faith is of the heart. It needs no words. It only listens for and responds to love.

edit on 27-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

LunaKat,

I think about you and I know you don't like it, I keep you in my prayers.
I was way out there too, I had a lot of liberal even ungodly beliefs.

"Faith is of the heart", how true. And who created the heart? The source
of all love, God. God's revealed Himself, you only have to believe.
I know of no atheists, non-Christians, agnostics even devout Catholics
as capable of love as I know God is...

The prophecies for this year are serious. You said it, "Faith is of the heart" Faith comes from God so give your heart to God.

I get hit for this a lot. Go where God is...

Go to a Roman Catholic Church, if it's locked, go to the office and request them to let you in... Tell them you wish to pray.
Sit or in reverence kneel before the Tabernacle, speak to Jesus, He
will send you His grace.... Just sit there in quiet if you want...

I wish all the doubters would do this...

love,

colbe

reply posted on 4-1-2012 @ 03:01 AM by colbe

Originally posted by gabby2011

Thank you for a great link colbe.. That forum had some very prophetic messages about the times we are in and what to expect..

The call for pray and to open out hearts to the Holy Trinity is very important..

The following is taken from this link

www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

God the Father: The Anti-Christ and a new world currency Friday, September 23rd, 2011 @ 09:30 pm

My daughter while the world may fear The Warning they must accept that the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation are upon us.

The Holy state of the Church is now at risk as is the state of Israel.

Prophecies will unfold as the world will be controlled by the Anti-Christ who will attempt to control you through a new world currency. When and if you are controlled in this way you will be controlled in every other way.

The Warning will put a halt to this and other evil atrocities being planned by global forces which are beyond the understanding of My children the world over. Innocent pawns in a game, not of your making, you will be protected by My hand of justice.

Rise, My children and fight this sequence of evil through prayer. The global control and persecution being plotted right at this moment can be averted through prayer. Not all of you can or will be saved such is the grip the Anti-Christ will hold over you.

My children Satan will never win. He has not been accorded the power and as his grip begins to loosen now he will drag as many souls as he can into the pits of hell with him.

I weep with deep sorrow for My beautiful creation and those precious souls of Mine. Oh if they would only listen to the truth.

Scientific evaluation is a nonsense for no science will substitute the reality of My Divine Kingdom. No one person on earth can ever fathom the beauty and the miracle that awaits you all for it is indescribable in human terms.

Soon you will understand the plans I have to salvage the world from the hands of the Deceiver.

I love all of you and will protect My followers at every stage during any planned persecution. Look towards Me. Open your arms and allow Me to hold and protect all of you. My children who believe in Me have nothing to fear.

Your beloved Creator
God the Most High
God the Father

edit: oops..pressed wrong member for reply..was supposed to be colbe..my apologies.

edit on 2-1-2012 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

You are welcome gabby,

The seer, Maria from Ireland was interviewed on American radio a
few months ago. She said, before she began to hear from Our Lord
and see Him and His mother, she was almost agnostic!

Raised Catholic but....bad catechesis, the times, the last fifty some years, the loss of faith.

I like to add, does it make her more legitimate? She is a mother and
a businesswoman.

reply posted on 6-1-2012 @ 07:44 PM by ZakOlongapo

Did I Tell You to Start a Religion ???
JESUS was BORN in the Spring with the Lambs!
He was a REBEL - Against the Pharisees of His Day and
Unfortunately PAID The PRICE ! - This CAN NOT be DENIED !
Sadly, this False ROMAN Structured RELIGION (Built around Him)
Follows the Roman Senators OFFICIAL LITANY To Obey a "LORD" !
Extreme Oath of the Jewsuits ~ www.reformation.org...
~ Loving Spiritual People can See this Perspective as a Challenge
to a Belief Structure, NOT Particularly Based on any Scientific Reality.
~ I Apologize to any Christian who may be Offended.
But I Truly Respect what Jesus STOOD for,
NOT the Excess False Litany built up around his COURAGEOUS Life.
ROMANS realized 300 Yrs. of MARTYRS were ONLY making them LOOK BAD,
so they Co-opted JESUS to Further their EVIL DOMAIN,
Until Martin LUTHER Changed "The GAME".
The EVIL ROMANS have been WREAKING Havock
Ever Since, Using the Jewsuits as THEIR AGENTS.
All Religions are CORRUPTABLE ~ But Some are More Corruptable than Others

edit on 6-1-2012 by ZakOlongapo because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 6-1-2012 @ 09:30 PM by lonewolf19792000

reply to post by arpgme

Youre finally starting to see the light. Now you just need to know his real name. It is Yahshua in hebrew and Yeshua in aramaic. Keep digging for answers, you will find them. The Creator's name is YaHuWaH (pronounced YAH-OO-WAH, call on him)..or YHWH.

There were 2 false Christ's before the Messiah, Nimrod's son Tammuz was turned from a man into a god by his mother, he was one of them. Lucifer was working hard to make people believe those lies but the star gospel tells the truth.

Research the star gospel, sacred astronomy.

edit on 6-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 6-1-2012 @ 09:49 PM by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LightSpeedDriver

Not true. Bible does not say he was born on Decmber 25th, nor does it say that there were 3 wise men, only that three gifts were brought...

Yahshua was concieved around the 25th of Kislev (roughly december) which Chanakuh just happened to fall in that year around December 20-28 just like it did in 2011. Count 9 months forward for normal human gestation period and he ends up being born after the hebrew new year which falls around Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) and Rosh Hoshana (feast of trumpets). He was born around Sukkot (feast of boothes or tabernacles) which is during Tishrei (september/octoberish).

The 3 magi came from Babylon in the east and because they wanted to worship the new King of Israel (he was 1.5-2 years old and toddling by the time they found him) that means they knew he was the Messiah and that they were Jews. There were still jews in Babylon during this time period because the Prophet Daniel never returned to Israel after the exile, he and some of his people stayed with him.

The "star of Bethlehem" was not a star at all. It was the planet Jupiter in retrograde making a loop (a crown) around the star Rigel (the King Star) during the constellation of Leo (Lion of Yahuda/Judah) which told the sacred astronomer magi that the King had been born. This, is part of what is called the "star gospel". in the bible whenever you read "signs in th heavens" it is referring to cosmological events going on in space, using our solar system like a clock against the backdrop of the universe. So the signs the 3 magi saw were the King of Israel being crowned the lion of Judah.

The signs in the heavens have begun again...and the signs in the earth...Adonai said he would return after these began.

reply posted on 6-1-2012 @ 10:25 PM by colbe

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LightSpeedDriver

Not true. Bible does not say he was born on Decmber 25th, nor does it say that there were 3 wise men, only that three gifts were brought...

Yahshua was concieved around the 25th of Kislev (roughly december) which Chanakuh just happened to fall in that year around December 20-28 just like it did in 2011. Count 9 months forward for normal human gestation period and he ends up being born after the hebrew new year which falls around Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) and Rosh Hoshana (feast of trumpets). He was born around Sukkot (feast of boothes or tabernacles) which is during Tishrei (september/octoberish).

The 3 magi came from Babylon in the east and because they wanted to worship the new King of Israel (he was 1.5-2 years old and toddling by the time they found him) that means they knew he was the Messiah and that they were Jews. There were still jews in Babylon during this time period because the Prophet Daniel never returned to Israel after the exile, he and some of his people stayed with him.

The "star of Bethlehem" was not a star at all. It was the planet Jupiter in retrograde making a loop (a crown) around the star Rigel (the King Star) during the constellation of Leo (Lion of Yahuda/Judah) which told the sacred astronomer magi that the King had been born. This, is part of what is called the "star gospel". in the bible whenever you read "signs in th heavens" it is referring to cosmological events going on in space, using our solar system like a clock against the backdrop of the universe. So the signs the 3 magi saw were the King of Israel being crowned the lion of Judah.

The signs in the heavens have begun again...and the signs in the earth...Adonai said he would return after these began.

Hi lonewolf,

Have you watched this series (it's up at Youtube, a couple of years old,
a 7 part series) on the Real Star of Bethlehem? It's so cool, it will give
you "good" chills.

A professor (I think Texas A&M) not a theologian discovered wondrous things, the more he studied. He had some help from upstairs. Watch it.

I don't know how to paste a Youtube directly on the forum, here is a link to the final Youtube, #7. It will amaze you. God is in charge of the Heavens. View from 4.58 minutes on if you do not have time. You should skip #7 if you want to watch the entire series, that would be better but if not.....

Could someone share, how to paste Youtube direct at ATS? I have a new
PC, it might be the difficulty, maybe I can't post direct? Thanks!!

www.youtube.com...

colbe

reply posted on 6-1-2012 @ 10:50 PM by lonewolf19792000

reply to post by colbe

Yeah i've seen it. The program he was using is called starry night and you can get a cheap copy for like 30 bucks. That video series was what actually got me researching the star gospel. You'd be amazed out how many prophets prophecies went hand in hand with the stars. It dwarfs my mind to think how Yahuwah set all our solar system and galaxy and universe up to time these events...even if i wasn't already a believer watching that star of bethlehem video would set me on the path to looking for answers because i love astronomy and i got a nice telescope fo christmas.

True enough, the signs in the heavens are whats going on out in space that is relative to earth.

reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 03:54 AM by colbe

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by colbe

Yeah i've seen it. The program he was using is called starry night and you can get a cheap copy for like 30 bucks. That video series was what actually got me researching the star gospel. You'd be amazed out how many prophets prophecies went hand in hand with the stars. It dwarfs my mind to think how Yahuwah set all our solar system and galaxy and universe up to time these events...even if i wasn't already a believer watching that star of bethlehem video would set me on the path to looking for answers because i love astronomy and i got a nice telescope fo christmas.

True enough, the signs in the heavens are whats going on out in space that is relative to earth.

lonewolf,

My brother has a telescope, a devotion to Astronomy and even an interest in clouds. He's fallen away form the faith though. I keep praying.

When we talk, he acknowledges God via Astronomy, I have hope.

colbe

reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 10:47 PM by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by colbe

Yeah i've seen it. The program he was using is called starry night and you can get a cheap copy for like 30 bucks. That video series was what actually got me researching the star gospel. You'd be amazed out how many prophets prophecies went hand in hand with the stars. It dwarfs my mind to think how Yahuwah set all our solar system and galaxy and universe up to time these events...even if i wasn't already a believer watching that star of bethlehem video would set me on the path to looking for answers because i love astronomy and i got a nice telescope fo christmas.

True enough, the signs in the heavens are whats going on out in space that is relative to earth.

lonewolf,

My brother has a telescope, a devotion to Astronomy and even an interest in clouds. He's fallen away form the faith though. I keep praying.

When we talk, he acknowledges God via Astronomy, I have hope.

colbe

Get him into the star gospel, it'll turn him around.

reply posted on 10-1-2012 @ 02:32 PM by H0n3yb33

reply to post by arpgme

The idea that "souls" go to heaven at death originated in pagan and Jewish religion, not the Bible. A brief look at ancient history reveals that the people of Babylon, Egypt and other kingdoms imagined such an afterlife.

The apostle Paul also comments on the state of the dead. In one of his letters to the church in Corinth he compared the condition of the dead with sleep: "For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep" (1 Corinthians 11:30).

But that is not the end of the matter. In describing the future resurrection of Christ's followers, Paul writes in the same letter, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51). This change is yet future—and "Christians" who sleep are dead.

The Bible shows a dead person is in no way immortal; his life has perished. So what happens to the spiritual essence that separates man from animal? Does it continue as a conscious, immortal soul independent of the physical body?

Certainly not! The Bible shows that the spirit in man, which originally came from the Creator God, returns to Him. "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7). This spirit that returns to God is neither the source of human life, nor is it human consciousness. Life and consciousness both perish when one dies.

Notice one such clear statement in John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] who is in heaven." John wrote these words decades after Jesus died and ascended to heaven—and well after many of Christ's followers had died—but he still affirmed that no one other than Jesus had gone to heaven.

Those who have died are still dead and in the grave—unconscious and unable to praise God (Psalm 6:5; 30:9; Isaiah 38:18). Scripture, as we have seen, shows that no human being except Jesus Christ has ever entered

heaven, and that remains so today. The voices referred to in Revelation 19, then, cannot be those of saved human beings now in heaven.It was a vision not a real account.
Resurrection, we must never cease to remind
ourselves, did not mean going to heaven or escaping death or
having a glorious and noble postmortem existence but rather coming
to bodily life again after bodily death.

“Thy kingdom come, on earth as in heaven.” Heaven comes to earth according to the bible..we don't go to to heaven.

reply posted on 12-1-2012 @ 09:10 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by H0n3yb33

Be it that you desire to know or not I will post this for others or for, which ever may be in need of knowing.

Heaven is not a place. Its a state of being.

Nothing is separate from God, nothing can be unless expressed by Thee. Heaven is a 'now' moment, it can come at any time, its being aware that the only part of you that is, really is, is the spirit that fills your being.

The kingdom IS within.

If I am misunderstanding what your idea of heaven is and represented it wrong, I apologize.

edit on 12-1-2012 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-1-2012 @ 10:37 AM by Unity_99

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Thank goodness HEAVEN IS A REAL PLACE AND I REMEMBER IT WELL. And this aint it. And no matter what you do to raise your frequency this place of torment is gladly left behind. Love & Light is in misery in hell.

AND if you could be happy, in your life, while even one soul is suffering, you're not LOVE.

edit on 12-1-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-1-2012 @ 10:56 AM by Six6Six

reply to post by arpgme

Jesus was no more of a gifted man than I am a sailor.

In fact he was con man. IF you took mentalists and magicians from today back to when sandals were the craze then all of them would be looked at like gods.

There is NO proof Jesus was the son of any god. Just his word. And his word means nothing. In fact the guy was so damn lazy he couldn't even be bothered to shave.

He died for our sins? Yeah keep believing the BS. He died for being a moron and preaching stuff he could neither back up nor prove. HE may at best of been a master hypnotist and mentalist. Nothing more.

Back then people were idiots and without TV and radio they all needed something to take away the boredom. So along came this unkempt man wearing sandals who said he was born of a virgin and was the son of god.

Funny, how today people like him are called CULT leaders.

I hate threads that people write on subject they know little about. The bible was neither written for the purposes you lot think nor was it written to be viewed along side modern day technology.

It was a book that held a secret interwoven into a story that was used for population control. The real key to the bible and its use is something that you will never find out because you believe the story to much.

Within the Vatican there are two missing books of the bible. Not missing really but they are what you use to decrypt the bibles true message. Each story holds a wording that when eventually linked to all the others gives an important "message".

And you will be surprised to know that it was Not a message from god. But people who portrayed themselves as gods to harness control over the population.

A "god" named Esu or Eshu depending on your pronunciation was what is known as a trickster personality. These type "gods" fabricated many a thing and were held in high regard in Africa many moons ago and still to this day are held in reverence. However, one of their many tricks was pretending to be something they are not and fooling humans. Here lies part of the key.

Satan killed 7 people (some say 13) but god killed 39 million!!! Which one do you think would truly offer up his son for sacrifice for human sins?????

You lot lack basic fundamental knowledge on this subject and like 98% of the human population have been chasing the proverbial "wild goose".

edit on 12-1-2012 by Six6Six because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-1-2012 @ 11:45 AM by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by LeoVirgo

Thank goodness HEAVEN IS A REAL PLACE AND I REMEMBER IT WELL. And this aint it. And no matter what you do to raise your frequency this place of torment is gladly left behind. Love & Light is in misery in hell.

AND if you could be happy, in your life, while even one soul is suffering, you're not LOVE.
edit on 12-1-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

What you remember is of your own creation. We all create heavens and hells and even our unconsciousness has a part in creating those. You dont so much leave this place behind, nor wish to, when you understand the need for it to be. Heaven is not a place, its a state of being. Heaven is also not a place where the self can dwell receiving rewards or eternal bliss...heaven is an awareness, an understanding, what you are being a part of here, now. Its a peace, with all that is.

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 05:18 AM by michaelsherlock

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by boymonkey74

2nd paragraph say's he was born from a rock. LOL
Mithra

No, but he did "build his church upon a rock" and coincidentally, the Vatican is built on the ancient headquaters of the religion of Mithras, so I guess, with Mithras born from a rock, and the Christian festival dates and many ceremonies like sacramental bread and wine, representing the body and blood of the deity, all comming from Mithaism, "Christ" did build his church upon a rock! The one Mithras was born out of.

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 05:45 AM by michaelsherlock

Originally posted by arpgme
Mithra was NOT born of a virgin like Jesus, he was born from a ROCK!

It is true that December 25 is a Pagan thing for the solstice, BUT, Jesus could NOT be born in the winter if you read The Bible...

Krishna was NEVER pronounced "Chrishta" and was NOT resurrected! You can read the Hindu scriptures themselves for proof!

As for the story of Horus, he was NOT the only son of God... And his story does NOT mimic's Jesus...

As for the Greek God Attis, the stories about him being resurrected came AFTER Jesus.

Justin Martyr even admitted that the Pagans were COPYING stories of Christianity and they were NOT there before...

They created these stories to create and opposition against Christianity...

By the way, do you know what the word opposition means in Hebrew!? SATAN!

By the way, the lady that created Zeitgeist is a Satanist wanting to get rid of Christianity and create a Utopian world. Doesn't that story sound familiar like the book of revelations?

What do you think of this? Can anyone refute this refutation! You be the Judge!

I have talked crap about the Jesus story because I didn't actually do research and just believed Zeitgeist! Please if you can disprove what I said, otherwise the evidence stands that the Pagans ADDED Christian like storied AFTER Christianity was...

You know how they say that the bible says that the world is flat?

It does NOT! The world "Earth" also simply meant "Land", it was not a reference to the planet but the nations or the lands!

Also, JESUS CHRIST said that no one has went to heaven but him, so what about Elijah?

Elijah ascended up to the sky NOT heaven! The word for heaven was not used there.

Christian Apologetics are making me think that maybe Jesus is true... What do you think?

edit on 2-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

You have asked (me) to give you my thoughts on the truth of Jesus' existence and I am assuming you mean as the Gospels, New Testament texts and the various doctrines of the Churches of Christ describe him.

Firstly, I must concede that it is a possibility. I have read quite alot of apologetic literature, from C.S Lewis, to Strobel to Geisler and many apologists present rather persuasive arguments in support of their beliefs. But the last word of the previous sentence is key to understanding these apologists and the supposed truth of their claims. "Belief!" Christianity is not a "truth system" it is a "belief system" and as such, the fabulous tales contained within the texts of the NT are not something which can be proven. No one thus far has proven the earthly existence of Jesus Christ. In the words of the Biblical Archaeologist and Professor of Ancient History and Archaeology at Washington University, Eric H. Cline:

"Archaeology has not yet been able to shed any direct light on the birth, life, or death of Jesus. That is to say, there is not yet any archaeological evidence for the historical Jesus—or any of the apostles for that matter…. However, the failure of biblical archaeologists and pseudo-archaeologists to provide confirmatory evidence of the life of Jesus and the apostles has not been for lack of trying."

Not only is there silence with regards to Archaeology, but literary sources are also silent as to the existence of Jesus and from the accounts of his life given in the Gospels, which claim that he was very popular and well known in the region, this is rather suspicious. Consider for example, Mark 2:1-12, where the crowd coming to see Jesus is so great that a paralytic person has to be lowered through the roof of a building just to see Jesus. Or when Jesus travels from Bethany to Jerusalem and crowds of people line the roads to welcome him. Further, most Christians would be familiar with tales such as, Jesus feeding the crowd of 5000 people with 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread (Mark 6:39-44) and later feeding a crowd of 4000 (Mark 8:1-9), or King Herod gathering all the scribes and priests of Bethlehem together to ask where Jesus would be born (Matthew 2:4). Add to these thousands of witness, the masses of Jews who were reported to have attended his crucifixion in order to mock him (Matthew 27). Finally, add to all of this Gospel testimony, the fact that his ministry spanned from 1 to 3 years, depending on which tradition you believe and in that time, whether it be one or three years, he certainly would have met and touched more lives than the four official Gospels could have reported. It is this fact, coupled with the above mentioned tales that establish without a doubt, that the Gospel writers were claiming that Jesus was well known in the region in which he lived. Yet we have less on Christ than we do on Pythagoras, or Guatama Buddha, both of whom lived centuries before Jesus, in an epoch where historical records were not as meticulous as they later came to be under the Roman Empire. This historical question is the first problem for Jesus.

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 05:58 AM by casenately

The peter or rock, of catholic faith explained.

Rome’s troops took to the ‘machismo’ faith, with its ceremonies of male-bonding and triumph over death, of self-control and resistance to sensuality. Acolytes were required to descend into a pit, which was then covered by boards filled with holes, and the blood of a sacrificial bull above would shower onto them. Thus sanctified they could re-emerge from the pit ‘reborn’ in Mithras.

This sacrament, the ‘taurobolia,’ was the Mithraic forerunner of the Christian baptism. Mithras’ rock tomb (and place of re-birth) – the ‘petra’ – was central to each Mithraeum. The rock connection was later re-worked into the legend of Saint Peter.

Legionaries took the cult with them into Palestine and back to Rome itself. Several hundred Mithraic monuments have been found in Rome (Coarelli, 1979). Adapted for Roman taste, the most popular Romanised form of Mithraism was Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun, whose re-birth was celebrated as the climax of the mid-winter Saturnalia, on 25th December (Celsus tells us that in the Mithraic mysteries the soul moved through seven heavenly spheres, beginning with the leaden Saturn and ending with the golden Sun).

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

There were seven degrees of initiation into the Mithraic mysteries. The consecrated one (mystes) became in succession crow (corax), occult (cryphius), soldier (miles), lion (leo), Persian (Perses), solar messenger (heliodromos), and father (pater). On solemn occasions they wore a garb appropriate to their name, and uttered sounds or performed gestures in keeping with what they personified. "Some flap their wings as birds imitating the sound of a crow, others roar as lions", says Pseudo-Augustine (Quaest. Vet. N. Test. In P.L., XXXIV, 2214). Crows, occults and soldiers formed the lower orders, a sort of catechumens; lions and those admitted to the other degrees were participants of the mysteries.

*The fathers conducted the worship. The chief of the fathers, a sort of pope, who always lived at Rome, was called "Pater Patrum" or Pater Patratus.*"

www.newadvent.org...

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 06:01 AM by colbe

reply to post by michaelsherlock

michael,

I disagree. Cline doesn't look at the testimony of Christians and the miraculous studied by Science but can't figure out...all of it points to
Christ. Testimony of the "miraculous" today and throughout history. Are all those accounts and modern Scientific study of "miracles" a lie? No.

There's the new study that just came out about the Shroud. Science can
only duplicate today a tiny bit of the "light" that had to be emitted to make
the marks on the Shroud. There's your archaeological evidence. And...

Science can't explain multiple miracles found in the Tilma of Guadalupe.
The image, it's not "paint" (for a better word) of this world.

God bless you,

colbe

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 07:55 AM by michaelsherlock

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by michaelsherlock

michael,

I disagree. Cline doesn't look at the testimony of Christians and the miraculous studied by Science but can't figure out...all of it points to
Christ. Testimony of the "miraculous" today and throughout history. Are all those accounts and modern Scientific study of "miracles" a lie? No.

There's the new study that just came out about the Shroud. Science can
only duplicate today a tiny bit of the "light" that had to be emitted to make
the marks on the Shroud. There's your archaeological evidence. And...

Science can't explain multiple miracles found in the Tilma of Guadalupe.
The image, it's not "paint" (for a better word) of this world.

God bless you,

colbe

Do not be too quick to believe! Ask yourself, would you be as quick to accept evidence that contradicted your belief and if not, why? The mind is a mysterious thing, it can work both for and against us.

In the words of the social psychologist, Leon Festinger:

"A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.
We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks. But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view."

I would be interested to find out more about these scientific tests on the shroud, sounds interesting.

reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 08:47 AM by colbe

Originally posted by michaelsherlock

Do not be too quick to believe! Ask yourself, would you be as quick to accept evidence that contradicted your belief and if not, why? The mind is a mysterious thing, it can work both for and against us.

In the words of the social psychologist, Leon Festinger:

"A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.
We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks. But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view."

I would be interested to find out more about these scientific tests on the shroud, sounds interesting.