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Q. I have heard some people say the pill has an abortifacient capacity. What does this word mean, and is it really true anyway?
A. Before answering this question it is very important that we all have a correct understanding of the key biological terms related to pregnancy. The following definitions have been accept by major medical texts for decades.
'Conception' refers to the moment at which the sperm penetrates and fertilises the ovum to form a viable zygote. It does not refer to the process of implantation of the newly created human embryo, which is a separate event, occurring about 7-8 day’s after conception. A woman is pregnant because conception has occurred, not because implantation has occurred. This distinction is important.
At the precise and unique moment of conception, a woman is 'pregnant' with "a new individual ". This is an accurate and informed medical description. It is the same terminology used by Prof. John Dwyer, pre-eminent Australian AIDS expert and researcher, who has described the moment that the sperm enters the ovum as the creation of a "new and unique individual". Well known medical writer, Professor Derek Llewellyn-Jones, author of Everywoman, has also written that when the male genetic material from the sperm joins with the female genetic material in the ovum, " a new individual is formed".
To stop conception occurring, that is, to stop sperm and ovum joining, is contraception. Condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, vasectomy and tubal ligation are accurately described as methods of contraception. Obviously any drug or device used after conception has occurred cannot be termed a contraceptive.
The correct term to describe any interference with the pregnancy after conception has occurred is ‘abortifacient’. This is the precise biological description for any drug or device that acts to end a pregnancy once it has begun at conception.
You might be interested to know that many major medical dictionaries have definitions of ‘conception’, ‘pregnancy’ and ‘contraception’ that are the same as those listed above.
It is medically dishonest to break from these definitions. And yet, this is precisely what some scientists have recently started to do. They seek to define pregnancy as beginning with implantation, not fertilization. But as I mentioned ealier, implantation occurs 7-8 days after the new human person has come into existence. The pregnancy, and the new human person, are already many days old by the time implantation has occurred.
Therefore, what these scientists are trying to doing is get people to think that abortifacient drugs such as the pill are really just contraceptive drugs. Do you see the clever shift in definitions these scientists are trying to make? Redefine when a pregnancy and new human life begins, and you redefine the key characteristic of the drug – how it works!
Obviously many people object to abortifacient drugs because they can cause a loss of human life. Not so many people object to methods of contraception (condoms, diaphrams etc), because these methods prevent new human life being created. Hence, if scientists succeed in convincing people that human life begins after implantation, eventually most people will have no objection to the pill. They will have been tricked into believing that human life had not begun when the pill exerted its anti-implantation effect.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by amazed
It generally amazes me when people blame a woman for getting pregnant, while pretending she didn't have a man help her get that way.
Phrases such as "she should have kept her legs closed", "she should have used birth control", "she should have ...... (insert your own personal argument as to why SHE is to blame)".
All the while pretending that somewhere in these accusations ought to also include a he. ie: "he should have used birth control", "he should have kept it in his pants"... etc.
Stop blaming only the female as the male is also to blame.
So are you suggesting that since the man is also apart of it then he has the right to demand the woman to get an abortion when she wants to keep the baby? Or if the man wants to keep the baby the woman should be force to birth it for him?
Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
i suggest that it be mandatory for anyone who claims to be anti-abortion that they must adopt a child.
If you're not willing to adopt a child then shut the hell up and mind your own business.
Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".
Now, are you pro-death penalty? Are you against universal health care? Are you against social programs which assure life? Are you one of those who whine and moan about "socialism", or those socialistic programs which truly assure life? Have you adopted a child? Do you volunteer at abuse shelters or homeless shelters helping children? Do you support food stamps for low income families? Do you support welfare to help low income children? Do you support education for all through university to help assure children grow up to be adults who can be productive citizens?
Originally posted by Kyobosha
reply to post by amazed
Seriously? This is a part of your argument?
Now, are you pro-death penalty? Are you against universal health care? Are you against social programs which assure life? Are you one of those who whine and moan about "socialism", or those socialistic programs which truly assure life? Have you adopted a child? Do you volunteer at abuse shelters or homeless shelters helping children? Do you support food stamps for low income families? Do you support welfare to help low income children? Do you support education for all through university to help assure children grow up to be adults who can be productive citizens?
Ridiculous. First, since when does socialism assure life? Socialism is an economic model that has a goal for equal quality of life for all but it is not a model for assuring life. In no way does socialism guarantee you will live. On top of that universal health care doesn't assure life for all either, especially if it takes months to even see a doctor. Just because somone doesn't support a system that is flawed doesn't mean they aren't pro-life. That is a huge assumption.
We ALL should be helping the less fortunate however we can. I think you will find very few people that would want to deny life for others.
Originally posted by muse7
Are you also against the woman having an abortion if she gets raped by a family member/complete stranger?
If you're against abortion then that means that the woman should be forced to have the baby, all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do. It's a shame how religion still has a choke hold on social issues, especially in America. European countries are light years ahead of us when it comes to gay unions/marriage/abortion etc..Why? Because they have managed to set themselves free from the teachings of an ancient book that was based on nothing more than superstitions that are considered stupid and foolish by the majority of the scientific community.
You should stop making others feel guilty because of their personal decisions, at the end of the day it's THEIR life and not yours you don't know the situation they are in. Some of them don't like the idea of giving up the baby for adoption and they shouldn't be forced into anything because of the stupid beliefs that are still prominent amongst some.
Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".edit on 11/10/2011 by muse7 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by KrazyJethro
...
4) Science and medicine seem to be moving in the pro-life direction considering the increased viability of children in the womb. This is a long discussion, but it's an important aspect.
...
Can we not have a reasoned discussion, even if it's a topic that has been parsed and hacked to death by the parties of hate and discontent (on both sides)? I feel it's possible.
Peace
KJ
Originally posted by jeramie
Originally posted by muse7
Are you also against the woman having an abortion if she gets raped by a family member/complete stranger?
If you're against abortion then that means that the woman should be forced to have the baby, all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do. It's a shame how religion still has a choke hold on social issues, especially in America. European countries are light years ahead of us when it comes to gay unions/marriage/abortion etc..Why? Because they have managed to set themselves free from the teachings of an ancient book that was based on nothing more than superstitions that are considered stupid and foolish by the majority of the scientific community.
You should stop making others feel guilty because of their personal decisions, at the end of the day it's THEIR life and not yours you don't know the situation they are in. Some of them don't like the idea of giving up the baby for adoption and they shouldn't be forced into anything because of the stupid beliefs that are still prominent amongst some.
Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".edit on 11/10/2011 by muse7 because: (no reason given)
So why exactly can't they have the baby and then within 3 days just turn it over to a Safe Haven drop-off point, with no questions asked? Or even give the baby up for adoption for those who want to have a baby but are unable to for medical reasons, etc.?
You need to step back and realize that you said that it is a shame that we believe that it is a bad thing to murder a baby. It is WAY more of a shame that you think it is OKAY for someone to MURDER A BABY. Satan most definitely has the majority of the world under his thumb when people get to the point where they actually believe that the mother's own selfish feelings out-weigh the right for a helpless, innocent baby to live.
If a woman is raped, don't murder the baby. Instead, throw the piece of scum who raped her into prison. If she doesn't want to take care of the baby, then give it up for adoption or drop it off at a Safe Haven point.
I like this one saying I heard some time back. It went something like: "If all the mothers of pro-choice believers had aborted their babies, we would have no problem with abortion today."
How dare anyone think that it is actually okay for a baby to be murdered before it has a chance at life.
Originally posted by windword
Is a woman supposed to be an eternal victim to sexuality and physiology?
Originally posted by Charmed707
Originally posted by windword
Is a woman supposed to be an eternal victim to sexuality and physiology?
That is so pathetic. A woman who gets herself knocked up is not a 'victim' in any sense of the word. You are treating women like helpless, mentally incompetent idiots. Pregnancy is not a punishment. It's a natural consequence of partaking in sex and a biological part of the reproduction process. When you say 'victim to sexuality', it sounds like you are demonizing sexuality.
You can stop any chance of pregnancy by simply having yourself sterilized. No reason to be so whiny.
You can try to dress up abortion as a 'medical procedure' or use any term you like to make you feel less guilty, bu it doesn't change the fact that you condone robbing innocent human beings of their life.
Originally posted by windword
Women don't "get themselves knocked up" alone.
Your attitude is ignorant and barbaricaly chauvanistic.
So instead of risking becoming pregnant at an unwelcome time, a young woman should opt for sterilazation?
WOW! You know sterilization is for life.
I have a better idea. How about forcing all men to get vasectomies, since virtually all pregnancies occur due to sperm, then there won't be any unwanted pregnancies and the father will always be culpable.
Abortion is a medical procedure. DUH! It is by law and definition, "not murder."
Originally posted by amazed
Now, are you pro-death penalty? Are you against universal health care? Are you against social programs which assure life? Are you one of those who whine and moan about "socialism", or those socialistic programs which truly assure life? Have you adopted a child? Do you volunteer at abuse shelters or homeless shelters helping children? Do you support food stamps for low income families? Do you support welfare to help low income children? Do you support education for all through university to help assure children grow up to be adults who can be productive citizens?
Are you really pro-life? Or actually just pro-birth?
Peace
Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
I've always wanted to ask this of pro-lifers. If abortion was deemed illegal for the reasons stated..."it is a life", "it is wrong to take a life for any reason"...etc.