Those that are against abortion

Abortion is a real hot-button issue, but why is religion always brought into the topic. I am against abortion because I believe all human life is special. And when you consider the facts that (1) a fetus is not a part of the woman's body (it's DNA is different and sometimes even its blood type is different so that proves that point) but rather it is dependent on the woman for survival just like it is after the birth (it would be neglect and murder not to feed and care for the baby after birth) and (2) the medical facts show that a fetus at a very early stage feels pain (some doctors say as early as 8 weeks) It's just that we cannot SEE it suffer that seems to make it OK. Most pro choicers are really pro abortion because most won't even consider other choices it's just that pro-choice sounds better. This is just my belief because I am a member of the caring part of the human race.

reply to post by bodcausailor




Your last line "make the right choice" well the right choice is NOT THE SAME choice for

everyone. And not all unwanted pregnancies are the result of 'partying'



All the people siting religion on this thread i do hope your own house is in order because

didn't Jesus say "Let he who is WITHOUT SIN cast te first stone" and "Judge not lest you

be judged"

reply to post by KrazyJethro

) I am not so unreasonable to assume that abortion can be changed legislatively alone. A culture of change must occur to stop homosexual bigotry and to open the adoptions process to more people (including homosexual couples) to counterbalance the resulting changes.

Ok, look, I think homosexuals should be treated equally and all that, but forcing a woman to have an unwanted baby, because abortion is morally wrong and unnatural, so that couples who are unable to procreate naturally can take said baby, is the sickest twisted logic this thread has yet to produce. IMHO!

Thousands upon thousands of people are killed every single day. Hundreds of thousands upon hundreds of thousands die each week. I am making those numbers up but its gotta be a lot. Yet in an anti abortion persons eyes those lives must mean squat.

I think once we all realize and come to agreement that there is no "right or wrong" there are only values that we put on actions, we will all be able to get along better. Every single living thing on this planet will die at one time or another, so it is possibly the most natural act on all of the planet. Yet most of the time we don't even want to talk about it or think about it.

Its just death, and just because you THINK it is right or wrong doesn't make it so. Everyone needs to get over themself and quit thinking their opinion really matters. Especially to other strangers that have no connection to you at all.

Originally posted by windword

Ok, look, I think homosexuals should be treated equally and all that, but forcing a woman to have an unwanted baby, because abortion is morally wrong and unnatural, so that couples who are unable to procreate naturally can take said baby, is the sickest twisted logic this thread has yet to produce.

IMHO!

I didn't say what you are alluding to. You connected those dots. What I said was that we needed to open adoptions so we could provide additional avenues and relieve pressure from the abortion market. There are many people out there willing to help someone out to have a baby, including paying for cost and living expenses.

My point was not to do it legislatively, but to make the changes socially so as to reduce the number of abortions undergone. Additionally, there is no "forcing" women to have an unwanted baby. The choices made have consequences. Those consequences must be dealt with, but to do so at the expense of the fetus seems more than selfish to me.

But that's a personal view, and not one used to judge others.

The arguments for and against abortion really center around the highly contentious issue of when the life of a new person begins. Is it at the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg, or when the baby first emerges from the womb, or some time inbetween? It turns out to be an important distinction, because as we are well aware, currently murder is the single most heinous crime one can commit, but abortion is not a crime at all.

Obviously we could go on ad nauseum about our arguments one way or the other, and I think I could state with conviction that no one is going to change their minds based on the arguments of the opposing faction. The only thing that can make someone change their stance is a personal experience (unwanted pregnancy, rape, death of a child, etc) that gave them some new insight.

Since it the onus of the females in our species to carry the gestational young, it is therefore my opinion that the mother and the mother alone who gets to decide whether the baby within her is a life or it isn’t or at what point that transition occurs. Obviously once a full term baby exists outside the womb the mother no longer has that option to decide.

Abortion is an unpleasant business no matter how you look at. The social ills that would occur by outlawing it, however, are far more unpleasant than the joy we may derive from protecting the lives of our most defenseless. Bottom line…..if you are against abortion, don’t have one.

reply to post by Windows


Nope not forcing anyone to do anything, just asking them not to kill their baby. I am not a roll model, but I do the best I can. Anyone who already has a child think of how protective we are of them. How you could be so ready not to defend one in the womb. I'm sorry I understand, but do not agree. I was abused as a child and am a man. While I am not female I do understand abuse. Rape is a very difficult thing to have to live with. I fully understand the scars that are left. My question is what about the part of that baby that was half you?

reply to post by eletheia


Got me there darling, but there are some things I just won't do nor agree with period.

Originally posted by muse7

If a woman gets raped, should she be forced to give birth because she was not on birth control? I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control, however I think the option of having an abortion should be there available to parents.

To be honest I'm in the middle on this. I don't want to see undue risk to the mother, and I do want a mother to have the right in the case of rape etc, BUT I do believe people should be responsible for their actions too.
I'm not some kind of pro lifer, I would even kill someone in an instant if it was needed, This doesn't mean I'm a killer or I go out killing people, but with 28 years of military under my belt if my family was endangered I would not hesitate.

Looking at abortions we need not to be 100% one way or the other, but it does effect societies' morality, and that is what bothers me. The black population in the US is in decline and a big part of it is due to abortions on a large scale. States like CA will give mothers free and easy abortions to prevent further pull on their welfare system.

Abortions should be the last choice, not the first.....and it has become the easy way out.

We also have Hypocrisy here too. If a pregnant mother is killed it is a double homicide, a person can will an unborn child their property, money etc. Unborn children have certain rights, but at any point the mother can say this is not a child, but a thing and kill it. Also the father has no rights at all to kill it too, but will be forced to pay for that child for 18 years if it is born. The rights of the mother is important, but she is not the only one involved in this who has rights too, but we tend to over look all that.

I'm not smart enough to figure out the best scenario, but I do think it will become a moot point in 50 years as science develops better methods of true birth control. There is one being tested in India where it's a tube put into the Male's tubes that make the sperm that passes through it unable to enter the egg. It is 100% effective so far with zero side effects and as long as it is in place it works, and can be easily removed.

Things like this above will be used in the future, if anything, to control population growth. There might be a day where we argue the rights of a woman to have the personal choice to get pregnant with abortions a thing of the past.

Originally posted by BlackStar99
It isn't hard to make babies. Therefore life is cheap. Again open your eyes as to exactly how cheap it is. I'm sure yours is very cheap.

That is interesting... do you find your own life cheap and easy to throw away? Do you see everyone around as cheap life? One thing I think humans in general strive for is to put some worth to life though we fail miserable at it, but it's the small moments that we do success that advances the human race forward.

It generally amazes me when people blame a woman for getting pregnant, while pretending she didn't have a man help her get that way.

Phrases such as "she should have kept her legs closed", "she should have used birth control", "she should have ...... (insert your own personal argument as to why SHE is to blame)".

All the while pretending that somewhere in these accusations ought to also include a he. ie: "he should have used birth control", "he should have kept it in his pants"... etc.

Stop blaming only the female as the male is also to blame.

Pro-lifers are not always pro-life. They seem to quite often only be pro-birth. If they were truly pro-life they would be stepping up to the plate to assure LIFE.

The strange thing I see is that once born, pro-birthers don't seem to give one hoot as to what happens to that person in life. They seem to only care before birth ie: pro-birth not pro-life.

If they are truly pro-life they would be voting for things which assure life such as social programs which allow these fetuses, once born to have health care, education through university, food, housing, clothing, safety, loving parent(s) etc.

But they do not, once these children are born pro-birthers don't give a crap and cry "socialism OMG EVIL get out of my wallet you hoodlums".

So when someone claims to be pro-life, ask them how they feel about universal health care, education through university, food stamps, welfare etc. Then, ask them if they support the death penalty. Their response will then allow you to judge if they are truly pro-life, or just pro-birth.

If you are truly pro-life, step down off your proverbial high horse and help all children to become wonderful adults. If you are truly pro-life start volunteering at your local abuse shelters and homeless shelters and go adopt some children. If you are truly pro-life stop supporting all the wars, stop supporting hate groups, stop supporting the destruction of this planet among a host of other ideas which truly support life.

Because otherwise the word hypocrite fits you to a tee.

I am truly pro-life as I support programs which actually assure life. I am also pro-choice, giving a woman the right to choose her own path in life. I support social programs which assure LIFE, not just birth. Personally I believe the phrases "pro-life" and "pro-choice" do not fit the package. I recognize the phrase "pro-life" was chosen as it sounds good and gives a psychological "twinge" as the idea can be turned into "if you are not pro-life then you must be pro-death". Psychological twisting of the truth which many fall for.

Hypocrites!

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by BlackStar99
It isn't hard to make babies. Therefore life is cheap. Again open your eyes as to exactly how cheap it is. I'm sure yours is very cheap.

That is interesting... do you find your own life cheap and easy to throw away? Do you see everyone around as cheap life? One thing I think humans in general strive for is to put some worth to life though we fail miserable at it, but it's the small moments that we do success that advances the human race forward.

edit on 11-11-2011 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

It is a harsh reality but it is none the less true. The value we place on life as humans isn't real, its just one that we assign. Human life is the cheapest commodity in the entire world. We reproduce constantly, and the act of procreation is completely free, assuming your not paying for it. It costs money to make a toaster, as well as having to pay someone to make it. Making a human is free and sometimes we even pay for the chance.

These are realities, even though we all ignore them. Even me.

I'm pretty sure the Book is over 2000 years old!

I think abortion is 1st degree pre meditated murder. It disgusts me that people can rationalize murdering children at the pretext of convenience. And it really is disgusting when women and others use the excuse..."it's my body...I'll do what i want". It is NOT your body, it is the body of a child. Yes, it is attached to your body, and dependent on you for life. But it is still alive. Murdering children for an easier way of life...I don't understand how people can justify themselves! And just because you are raped doesn't mean the life is less important. How far we as a society have fallen. America should repeal Roe vs Wade, and anyone attempting to get an abortion should be arrested and tried for the crime of attempted murder of a child. If they complete the abortion, they will be charged and tried for first degree murder.

Those of you that support abortion, how can you justify murdering children for a more convenient lifestyle? I don't get it! I don't get it!

This doesn't have anything to do with the Bible. Murder is murder in any culture, in any religion. It is inherent in man...a moral law. You don't kill other humans.

reply to post by bodcausailor


It is their baby and it is their choice, yes as a species we are protective of our children, its natural, animals are like that too, protect their young.

I would be all for protecting my child if it was in the womb and I was financially stable, I wouldn't care if I wasn't physically and mentally prepared but you have to accept that under some circumstances that it is not the case all of the time, some people are just not ready to have children and they're are a lot of people out their who kept the child out of either stupidity, love, greed for benefits, whatever it is, everyone has their own motives, they could not raise that child properly and it is the child who has to suffer because the parents really couldn't care.

Would you call that fair?

My main point put across is you cannot guilt trip other people into keeping a child if they are not ready, because you are giving her hope that he/she/they can raise that child by them self and a year down the line you read in the paper that the woman/man/ found dead of a drug overdose and the child was screaming for a day or two until someone came to check out the noise. (I know that is not all cases but can lead to a worse case scenario)

When I was a kid my best friends name was Andrew and he was 7 the same age as me and his father left when he was young to never return, his mother was a drug and alcohol abuser, she used to go to the next city which was 100 miles away and leave him over the weekend with his little sister who was 5, he used to steal from the shops to fend for himself and his sister and if he got caught, how was he meant to justify it? It was just a child stealing.

In the end yes he and his sister were taken away from his mother and places into adoptive care, I met him a year or two ago and he was looking much better, but the physiological scars of what he had to endure will live with him forever.

A mother like his should of never even been GIVEN the chance to reproduce because she as a mother failed in every aspect to be called a decent human being, never mind a mother.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
i suggest that it be mandatory for anyone who claims to be anti-abortion that they must adopt a child.

If you're not willing to adopt a child then shut the hell up and mind your own business.

I feel exactly the same way. I personally think its somewhat selfish to have a child when there are so many out there who need good parents.

Originally posted by amazed
It generally amazes me when people blame a woman for getting pregnant, while pretending she didn't have a man help her get that way.

Phrases such as "she should have kept her legs closed", "she should have used birth control", "she should have ...... (insert your own personal argument as to why SHE is to blame)".

All the while pretending that somewhere in these accusations ought to also include a he. ie: "he should have used birth control", "he should have kept it in his pants"... etc.

Stop blaming only the female as the male is also to blame.

So are you suggesting that since the man is also apart of it then he has the right to demand the woman to get an abortion when she wants to keep the baby? Or if the man wants to keep the baby the woman should be force to birth it for him?

Originally posted by sputniksteve

It is a harsh reality but it is none the less true. The value we place on life as humans isn't real, its just one that we assign. Human life is the cheapest commodity in the entire world. We reproduce constantly, and the act of procreation is completely free, assuming your not paying for it. It costs money to make a toaster, as well as having to pay someone to make it. Making a human is free and sometimes we even pay for the chance.

These are realities, even though we all ignore them. Even me.

I agree to a point... It is a value WE place, as is the value we place on everything. If you were on a island with a ton of gold what value do you place on that gold that you can not eat?

As I said before we degrade the value on life when we allow large scale abortions with little care or thought to the process. We DO devalue life, but I'm not sure that is what we should do?


Isn't it values we decide on is what makes us civilized?

reply to post by Xtrozero





'Quote' Abortions should be the last choice, not the first.........and it has become the easy

way out.



Whatever gives you the idea that abortion is the FIRST choice of anyone undertaking a

termination and NOT a very reluctant much considered LAST choice. I personally don't

believe that abortion is undertaken as an easy option.




Slightly off topic but............

Just something i'd like to put out there [ i am not aware if this still holds in the catholic religion]

but many many years ago a mother having had several children and giving birth to another and

having a problematic delivery where it was only viable to save either the mother OR the child

preferance had to be given to save the baby. So that left a baby and several young children

without a mother

Originally posted by eletheia
Whatever gives you the idea that abortion is the FIRST choice of anyone undertaking a

termination and NOT a very reluctant much considered LAST choice. I personally don't

believe that abortion is undertaken as an easy option.

Maybe statistics. Plus many times I have seen it as the only choice many have decided on...


UNITED STATES

Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996)
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700

Who's having abortions (age)?
52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%.

Who's having abortions (race)?
While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely.