OWS is working

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Hey, I thought of a nice question for you. Please dont dodge it.

If you absolutely had too decide on the message(Like you alone are a tie breaker) what would it be?

I believe I asked you the same.

reply to post by Puppet27Master

I believe I asked you the same.

Didn't catch that.

If you were placed at a podium in front of thousands of people to voice your message, what would it be?

Not sure. I suppose my biggest concern about the economy is "Keep the money inside the country."

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Now sum that up and slap it on a sign for me.

the 1% cannot be trusted to create money from the full faith and credit of the american people (the 99%)

hows that?

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Not very catchy, but we can work on that later. Maybe an accompanying theme song, hmm?

It does provide an intro for those who feel they may agree.

Now that you've got clear goals and a catchphrase, what now? Are you protesting the right people(as in wall street)? Or do you need to move to D.C.?

Once that is decided, how do you plan to represent yourselves? Elect a leader(or representative) by public vote(as in, anyone can vote. )? Or is it closed to the public and only for active protesters?

End the banking system. End all debt. Yes I know it is dishonourable not to pay a debt, but the debt was obtained through a dishonourable and malicous practice. So now everyone is free.

New banking system that is put in the hands of the state (the people). A system based on progress and deflation rather than debt and inflation. The government can lend out money at 1% to the people, as well as a 1% tax on income and 1% sales tax. That is more than enough money to run the government. Government should be small and cities, towns, counties should handle their own affairs to a certain extent.

Supressing technoligy should be outlawed and solar panels should be mass produced at a higher efficiency than they currently are, and made to last longer. The energy problem is one of the biggest that mankind faces and just about the main cause behind most conflicts. A fight for resources/energy. If we can get that far we can move on to even better things.

reply to post by godfather420


the argument against giving the right to coin money to the people is we would coin to much,
look at the fed printing presses,
they are doing that themselves while saying we could not be trusted not to do it

it is obvious that who ever gets to use the money first gets to make the most from its creation.

this is why the fed wants the right to monopoly create money,
to pick winners and losers

and so far the banks are the winners

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Well I hear what your saying. But I think we all need to change our way in the sense of consumption, manufacturing and self suffinciency. This so called "economy" is not economic at all. We waste so much. If the corporations would stop buying patents on world changing energy solutions and with holding them so they can profit on their out of date destructive source of energy, we could progress in ways I think we can't imagine right now. There is so much good out there the only problem is they shove the bad down our throat everyday. This idea can work with restrictions obviously. Its an idea thats all.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Not very catchy, but we can work on that later. Maybe an accompanying theme song, hmm?

It does provide an intro for those who feel they may agree.

Now that you've got clear goals and a catchphrase, what now? Are you protesting the right people(as in wall street)? Or do you need to move to D.C.?

i am not a leader or part of OWS but i do support legal lawful protest within the confines of local statutes and ordininces
and i do support the right for people to make a better world for all that said,

protest to the others in society, the other 99%ers
wall street wont change, govenment wont change,
but if the people change first then the changes will spread.
AN IDEA WHOS TIME HAS COME WILL BE STOPPED BY NO MAN

protesting wall street will remain popular as their crimes are self evident,
and every person agrees that wall st is out of control.

as soon as it becomes political you will be fighting the left right pardime
stay focued on the obvious easy to see coruption.
this will ensure that more people will jion in and debate.

Once that is decided, how do you plan to represent yourselves? Elect a leader(or representative) by public vote(as in, anyone can vote. )? Or is it closed to the public and only for active protesters?

it is required in a true democracy for the people,
that all people are allowed to vote including the 1%

but remeber they are the minority 1%
and no leader should be allowed to be spokes person for more than a small period of time.
in my mind the way to fight corruption is to have revolving representation.

every person who wishes to represent must be picked at random,
and all must be allowed to enter the draw

only in this way can we remove the ability of the 1% to buy or control the direction.
i suggest people from each protest location pick a new leader every day by popular ballot.

i also suggest a "offical" video documentary from each place with the voices and ideas of the 99%

if people see change they want to be part of that change,
with a well presented video people can become invested in the outcome of the movement.

let the world see your faces and hear the words from your heart.

each location could "pick at random" a local charity and show support and fundraise for them.
its the small things sometimes that people remember.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

Awesome thread Xploder.

I think your OP really hits the nail on the head. Most groups, or movements place all the spotlight and power on a select few, who in turn become the focal point of the entire operation, good or bad. Having a leader focus' the power and energy in to a single force, like a laser. While this does make it stronger overall, it also makes it easier to manipulate. History has shown us time and time again how easy it is for a single strong force with good intention to be turned to the dark side through manipulation and corruption. IMO having no leader and giving everyone an equal voice allows the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts.

Much to the point Xploder has made with this thread, there have been some very valid questions raised by the replies and it is nice to see a mature debate taking place. I would like to address a few of the questions with my personal take on the situation.

reply to post by Puppet27Master

IMHO OWS won't start making any real head way until they begin to gather around the capitol building in D.C. Then and only then will our bought-off congress men and women realize that there will be real repercussions for the decisions that they have made, which have been influenced by personal and corporate greed.

While i do agree with you about congress being bought, and i would love to watch them skwirm, i would like to share why i think Wallstreet was chosen over DC.
Our bought congress is nothing but a tool. The fact that they allowed themselves to be bought shows that they are tools. When someone uses a tool for evil, getting mad at that tool is pointless, you have to go after whoever is weilding that tool. Don't get mad at the tongs, get mad at the guy using the tongs to steal your wallet.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

1. If people are discussing "What the hell the message actually is?" doesn't that take away from discussing how to achieve a clear and decisive goal?
2. The lack of message has already pushed a lot of people away.
3. Doesn't it show a lack of "Community" if the protester continue to argue over what exactly the message is?

This is a big one, and has been fuel for the anti-ows crowd, but is a very valid question. How can one get behind a movement when no one really knows where they are moving to?
Sure not having a set in stone message may push a lot of people away, but so would having a set in stone message. If i say raspberry jam is the best, but you like strawberry, you will not agree with me. Through debate and mature dialog we can come to the conclusion that while we may all like different jam, pretty much everyone likes toast. Eventually there will be a clear and concise message and goal, but the people have not found a way to articulate it in a way that will speak for everyone.
This may be a pipe-dream, and i understand there will never be a message that will speak for every single person, but through debate and mature dialog i am confident we can get damn close.

Shouldn't the debating have taken place before the protest? And then those who agreed would have shown up?

The reason for the protest is because the system is broken. Simple as that. Getting people out in numbers is a great way to light a fire under some rear ends. The fact that the current system is broken is something that no-one can deny.

Like what Carl Sagan once said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" i believe that complicated issues require complicated solutions. There is no quick and easy solution to what the world is currently facing, so all we can do is what we think it right, and do our best to make our voices heard, and contribute to the democracy that made this nation a nation that i am still proud to call my own.

Wall of text crits you for over 9000 - You die
Deadcow

reply to post by XPLodER

if there is no leader then they cannot be bought off or sell out.

I am waiting to see what is OWS going to get. I mean , what the elites will give OWSers. I think that OWS should want it all back.

So , there should be a way to get all back.

I hope people wake up sooner in US and take control of the bully which is threatening and invading other nations.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


This is actually the biggest problem with the protest. Too many opinions about whats wrong. In a protest you want a clear message. Not just a lot of different people that think the problem is different things. Or the people who just flat out DO NOT know. Its distracting and convoluted.

maybe there are TOO many things wrong?

reply to post by XPLodER


But there is an overwhelming unwillingness for change.

Apathy.

the few are outnumbered by the sheer majority - and it disgusts me as much you. but that is our lot.

Trinkets and harlots. that is our society. one provides the other and all the foot stomping does is make noise.

We're just too far along now. The bigger foot stomps harder.

reply to post by XPLodER


You are right of course. An excellent way to put the matter and it does come down to the old adage divide and conquer. If those many divisions can be maintained - we can be controlled by pitting some members of the group against others. There is no shame in many different opinions. That does not mean people do not share a common goal of equality and opportunity for everyone who wants it and even those that don't.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
reply to post by XPLodER

 

But there is an overwhelming unwillingness for change.

Apathy.

the few are outnumbered by the sheer majority - and it disgusts me as much you. but that is our lot.

Trinkets and harlots. that is our society. one provides the other and all the foot stomping does is make noise.

We're just too far along now. The bigger foot stomps harder.

This has some truth to it too but sometimes hopelessness is mistaken for apathy.
It is never too late to bring about necessary changes to your political system and demonstrations like this do not work instantly but, they certainly do have an effect on and form and shape the future climate.

These things take time and effects are going to be witnessed gradually but they will occur eventually, like everything else worth fighting for.

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


you are forgetting something,
when pieceful people who are lawful and inspired get together,
and the non violence pact is adherd to,
then the protestors cannot be stopped,

first there will be ridacule,
then there will be threats,
then there will be provoked acts of violence,
then there will be more support from the others who thought "not in my country"

and then the people will be a comunity working for each other and many other people will feel the comunity spirit and see what happens when the group needs are put before the individual needs,

this brings people who feel icolated together in the spirit of making the world a better place.

eventually every person will want to be part of the new comunity even police ect.

when we finally put the group before the individuals, people will sacrifice time, energy and ideas to make the comunity even stronger.

it is only when we realize that to win we must be a community.
it is easy to stop individuals,
but it is impossable to stop a commited comunity.

xploder