OWS is working

first this is not about weather OWS is right , wrong or other wise.
this is not about political parties,
but is about the impact of understanding that OWS is having.

WHY i hear you say?
well i spend alot of time on many, many sites other than ATS, and all the sights are talking about OWS.
if the story is negitive then supporters rally and post rebultal and counter aguments.
if the story is positive then the non supporters come and try and make arguments to the contary.

this means weather people support or dont support, they are talking about OWS and this is driving understanding and discusion of issues.

at this point i would like to point out that the lack of a single "head" the crowd voice can be heard, the interesting thing about OWS is that all can speek, all can help and this has brought about a comunity of people working for each others interests.

the fact is this is bringing comunities together and THEY are talking and learning and teaching others.

so when you get a comunity spirit and groups of people getting together to talk about what is wrong and how to make it right, it scares the heck out of the eleites.

"people are supposed to devide themselves and only think about what they as individuals need"

but in these comunities all are equal (not socialist) and all may contribute.
when people feel there needs are not addresed they go to OWS and find commonality with other people, who will listen to them and in some cases be in the same position.

another interesting point is that because of the "everyperson" nature of the movement the debates include all peoples and viewpoints, not just that of a single representitive.

if there is no leader then they cannot be bought off or sell out.

the fact that ats has had many OWS thread weather for or against is proof that debate is taking place at ground level, and when people feel like they can contribute and their voice does matter,
they go and educate others and protest and realize that

THERE IS MORE IN COMMON BETWEEN US ALL

and together we can discuss, teach and learn from everyone how to make this world a better place.

so in conclusion it is my opinion that it is helping to build the movement to make threads weather for or against OWS because it causes debate which is required for a republic to function.

so please keep posting threads "for" or "against" OWS
as this stimulates debates.

what is telling is if you look at the MSM and the internet,
two different stories are being told.

xploder

Ah, yes, that's how it is working. I thought you were going to say it was actually accomplishing the main goal.

Until that starts working, is OWS really working?

reply to post by TsukiLunar


well yes it is working because people are talking about it,
and the heated debates are informative,
and the people are realizing that they do have a voice,

the most important part is everyone can have an opinion and express it,
and in a way this empowers them to make a change.

so if their (ows) ambition was to get people to discuss the issues,
they have acually created a comunity spirit as well,
people are piecefully voicing their concerns,
and this is how to engage people.

but overall the topics without being defined are starting to define themselves.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


IMHO OWS won't start making any real head way until they begin to gather around the capitol building in D.C. Then and only then will our bought-off congress men and women realize that there will be real repercussions for the decisions that they have made, which have been influenced by personal and corporate greed.

reply to post by XPLodER

well yes it is working because people are talking about it, and the heated debates are informative, and the people are realizing that they do have a voice,

But isn't the fact that's its not actually working working showing people that they really dont have a voice? I mean considering its been way more than a month and no ground has really been gained.

the most important part is everyone can have an opinion and express it, and in a way this empowers them to make a change.

This is actually the biggest problem with the protest. Too many opinions about whats wrong. In a protest you want a clear message. Not just a lot of different people that think the problem is different things. Or the people who just flat out DO NOT know. Its distracting and convoluted.

so if their (ows) ambition was to get people to discuss the issues,

IS that their ambition?

reply to post by Puppet27Master


i think you are looking at the climax of what could happen
but i think that when the people debate the topics it helps define the acual issues.

if enough people are debating the issues,
this will become the defining issue of the next elections.

if and when change occours it will only be when people have educated each other in heated debates and decided that "to not faithfully exicute the political office"
is a crime of treason.

at that point congress will empty itself.

xploder

As long as it plants a seed in the minds of the people.

It may not seem like anything is being done, seems like some focus on the miscreants could be hurting the image.
But.
People are waking up to real reasons why they struggle and live pay to pay, with a realization that it's the billionaires that siphon away YOUR wealth with government approval. Too much of what we pay to live costs too much, the interest on national debts to line the pockets of the billionaires that don't care about you or me.

When I was a kid the Boogey man lived up on the hill, that's what my dad told me, I imagined he looked like the monopoly man does in the suit and top hat but it's face was old and sinister.
I think they really are the worlds boogey men, those ultra rich dudes that want it all.

Yes it's true that people are debating this, for and against.
People are talking.

reply to post by Puppet27Master


What happens when they become corrupt again? If we replaced every elected official with non-corrupted people, the very next week the system will have corrupted them too. Just like the corruption it spreads worldwide.

The financial and corporate system are broke and corrupted and will break and corrupt the world as long as it stands the way it is.

The elected officials are a symptom of the disease. When everyone realizes this, then and only then will OWS have reached its goal.

reply to post by XPLodER

if enough people are debating the issues, this will become the defining issue of the next elections.

What will? What exactly is the message?

reply to post by XPLodER


I fully agree with you that it does open a forum for discussion of the many problems this nation faces today. I'm simply stating, as you seem to agree with as well, that D.C. is where this movement is ultimately headed and that is where we will begin to see the real effect of the OWS.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by XPLodER

 

if enough people are debating the issues, this will become the defining issue of the next elections.

What will? What exactly is the message?

what is the OWS message?
that is the question that has everbody talking
that means everbody is asking questions
that means debate

by not defining the message people can ask the question,

and this spreads the debate


xploder

reply to post by LoneGunMan


I am very aware of your concerns as I would have to agree with you that our current system is completely broken. Do you have any suggestions of what we may replace it with or how we can begin to correct the many mistakes that currently bind the system?

As for me, I'm a hardcore Ron Paul supporter and he has some brilliant ideas that could potentially 'fix' the many problems we face today.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


I have this question for you. If you were placed at a podium in front of thousands of people to voice your message, what would it be? That is what the OWS movement is all about and this is what EXPLodER is trying to get across. It provides an opportunity for everyone to be heard then discuss among themselves to build an atmosphere of sharing ideas and ultimately coming up with some main focal points. The OWS movement is still young and may take a few more months or longer to express what exactly they are trying to portray as their message. So be patient and do not be afraid to join in the conversation.

reply to post by XPLodER

by not defining the message people can ask the question, and this spreads the debate

I suppose if that's the way you want to justify it.

However, consider this.

1. If people are discussing "What the hell the message actually is?" doesn't that take away from discussing how to achieve a clear and decisive goal?

2. The lack of message has already pushed a lot of people away.

3. Doesn't it show a lack of "Community" if the protester continue to argue over what exactly the message is?

reply to post by Puppet27Master


it is only when people are debating and talking as a comunity that the issues raise themselves
by this i mean that people simply debating the issues as a comunity,
the issues will become clear to all involved.

debate by nature creates change

xploder

I think that sometimes you have to keep on asking questions and eventually the answers will become apparent. In time we'll come to a cohesive set of questions, answers, and agreements that suit most people.

It seems tome that a lot of the critics who claim it hasn't accomplished anything are really looking for instant gratification.

Changing the world is, and should be, a slow, deliberative process.

Demanding that OWS get it all done within weeks is childish, and unworthy of responsible adults. I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers took more than a few weeks to discuss issues, come to consensus as to what to do, and to articulate that consensus broadly.

Give it time, and try to remember that it isn't an episode of Short Attention Span Theater.

This thing has the potential to hulk where the longer the battle takes place the more we grow and become resilient; until the point where everyone is just standing there looking and realize holy eff we just changed the world folks...

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by XPLodER

 

by not defining the message people can ask the question, and this spreads the debate

I suppose if that's the way you want to justify it.

However, consider this.

1. If people are discussing "What the hell the message actually is?" doesn't that take away from discussing how to achieve a clear and decisive goal?

the people must define there message as a comunity,
otherwise it is just indivdual goals.
if the whole comunity decides on a goal or message it will come to pass.
if one individual trys to define goals or message it will fail.
this only works with public debate and concensus

kinda like how a democracy is suposed to work.
one voice one vote, people will not be bought by lobbyests and power brokers.
because you cant buy everyone

2. The lack of message has already pushed a lot of people away.

to pre define a democratic outcome for expedience of message is a mistake.
as this grows people will see the message rather than hear it,
its called democracy of the 99% against the democracy of the 1% for the 1%

3. Doesn't it show a lack of "Community" if the protester continue to argue over what exactly the message is?

no this shows that everyone is allowed to have their say,
like in a democracy.

not everyone has the same point of view,
but all are allowed to express thiers and has a right to do so.

if this was the case in politics we would not be in so much trouble

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


I understand what you are trying to say. But I think a clear message would be more useful.