OWS Turning Violent

What is the real agenda of OWS? I’ve seen the post showing some off duty cops posing as protesters. They were definitely there posing as protesters but the video did not show them provoking any violence. I suspect they were trying to infiltrate the movement and glean information about OWS plans, leaders, beliefs, etc.

Cops Infiltrating OWS

However, today I read about this letter being circulated at Occupy Oakland.

Violence??

The flyer, signed off by an anonymous group calling itself ‘The Oakland Liberation Front’, suggests that engaging in non violent protest classifies as acting as “an auxiliary of the police force”.

“How dare you even ask for non-violence”, the flyer states, referring to the fact that police have already used violence against protesters. Last week’s confrontation culminated in Iraq war veteran Scott Olsen being seriously injured as “non-lethal” explosives, tear gas and rubber bullets were employed in an attempt to disperse protesters. Promising to “go beyond” the pursuit of economic justice, the creators of the flyer vow to “seek a total transformation of society.”

“We seek the complete annihilation of capitalism”, the note reads, adding that this process will begin on Wednesday.

Are we (the people not present who are watching this unfold) to believe that this letter is an effort by the police to incite violence from inside the movement? Or is this more likely the real agenda of the “Oakland Liberation Front” and many OWS'rs? I have seen the Marxist signs everywhere at OWS; we all have. Why shouldn’t we conclude this is really is the plan of the majority in the OWS crowd? The anti-capitalist teachings of Henry David Thoreau, Carl Marx and all the heroes of the radical left promoted civil disobedience as a means to an end. Are we to believe that these folks share all of the same beliefs but stop short of the point where civil disobedience and violence start? Really??

Here is a video from a big OWS supporter who warns people to be careful about revolution and starting violent acts. He asks that OWS remember “how we got into this mess and what the real solution is.”

reply to post by seabag


And naysayers said their could never be another American Civil war.

There is a part of me that says I am witnessing the opening of it.

Violence usually follows a failed plan. And the lefts plan has failed.

“When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution
becomes inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy

Those that want violence will make it happen no matter the venue. With the OWS protest going on I'm afraid they've seen a opportunity to channel this Violence.

The very nature of a long protest will always end in violence. It's kind of naive to think that the boiling point will never be reached. Police our antagonizing protestors, protestors are getting tired of being pushed around and arrested, violent skirmishes will eventually erupt until someone unfortunately loses a life.

Has anyone ever witnessed the system that controls us throughout our world ever bow to the masses? It's like trying to take candy from a baby! The system doesn't want to lose control, it's as simple as that.

The OWS movement has fallen on deaf ears by our elected officials. They want it to go away! These protestors are pushing the buttons of our elected officials, and eventually our system like every other system throughout the world will turn on its people.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
“When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution
becomes inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy

WAR IS THE SOLUTION!

"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness."
Robert A. Heinlein

"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."
"I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature."
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."
"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."
Adolf Hitler

"Do your damnedest in an ostentatious manner all the time."
"Better to fight for something than live for nothing."
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
George S. Patton

"To accomplish much you must first lose everything."
"We cannot be sure of having something to live for unless we are willing to die for it."
Che Guevara

"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you wish for peace, prepare for war"
Epitoma Rei Militaris, by Vegetius.

Rulers are rarely deposed without any bloodshed.
That's just a fact of history.

I'm not advocating anything, just pointing out the obvious. The 1% aren't going to give up their 50% of the wealth and the total control of your labor. They won't. So what are you going to do? 1. Submit. 2. Passively resist until all dissenters are in prison. 3. Do something about it. Those are the choices. There are times for each solution. Which time is it now?

edit: Also, this is post number 1000!

Originally posted by truthbet0ld

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
“When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution
becomes inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy

WAR IS THE SOLUTION!

"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness."
Robert A. Heinlein

"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."
"I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature."
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."
"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."
Adolf Hitler

"Do your damnedest in an ostentatious manner all the time."
"Better to fight for something than live for nothing."
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
George S. Patton

"To accomplish much you must first lose everything."
"We cannot be sure of having something to live for unless we are willing to die for it."
Che Guevara

"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you wish for peace, prepare for war"
Epitoma Rei Militaris, by Vegetius.

edit on 1-11-2011 by truthbet0ld because: (no reason given)

So you don't think the letter I referenced was a set-up? You think this is the OWS agenda? What is the outcome OWS seeks after the revolution? What system of government will be in place? Anarchy? Socialism? Communism? Aren't those worse alternatives? Just wondering what the end-game is...

I live on the other side of the world. But I guess even i see whats going down in the US as of Wednesday.

1 (this thread) + 1 (this thread = 2 (Maybe some problems.)

Originally posted by FejkNick
I live on the other side of the world. But I guess even i see whats going down in the US as of Wednesday.

1 (this thread) + 1 (this thread = 2 (Maybe some problems.)

I hadn't seen that post!! Thanks!! Ya, that is a serious conflict of interest. The whole thing is a conflict of interest. I understand some of what is being protested but you REALLY have to think about what's going on behind the movement when the city (that gives the police orders) tells the police to crack down, then they tell the police to join in!!! WTH

reply to post by seabag


I don't like the looks of how the world is moving into position the last few days. Market issues in the world, protests set up so that it will result in violence and then what? What comes next?

reply to post by seabag


I think it's simply backing down because:
1) The more people saw of the majority of arrests being ridiculous (not blaming cops) the more people rallied.
2) Way too many cameras to get away with anything.
3) Winter is coming and people will get cold.

re: the OP, more BS IMO.

reply to post by truthbet0ld


Love to see someone quoting Heinlein, if you are a fan you should read For us, the living. As for the Op, although the author of that lovely piece of literature may feel that way, i doubt that the movement as a whole does not, if they did they would show up with motorcycle helmets and their signs on really think sticks, like the Greeks.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by truthbet0ld

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
“When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution
becomes inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy

WAR IS THE SOLUTION!

"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness."
Robert A. Heinlein

"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."
"I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature."
"It is not truth that matters, but victory."
"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."
"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence."
"Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future."
Adolf Hitler

"Do your damnedest in an ostentatious manner all the time."
"Better to fight for something than live for nothing."
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
George S. Patton

"To accomplish much you must first lose everything."
"We cannot be sure of having something to live for unless we are willing to die for it."
Che Guevara

"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"If you wish for peace, prepare for war"
Epitoma Rei Militaris, by Vegetius.

edit on 1-11-2011 by truthbet0ld because: (no reason given)

So you don't think the letter I referenced was a set-up? You think this is the OWS agenda? What is the outcome OWS seeks after the revolution? What system of government will be in place? Anarchy? Socialism? Communism? Aren't those worse alternatives? Just wondering what the end-game is...

Not everything is a false flag IMO. The OWS agenda is TRULY a mixed bag of opinions. The truth is EVERYBODY WILL NOT AGREE ON EVERYTHING. Some want peaceful protest others want war. Constant tug of war. A setup, I don't think it is. I do think it is however intended to stir the pot of emotions and get people fired up since way too many citizens think peaceful protests will sway anyone or anything.

Because not everyone agrees on everything you can bet that TPTB are having their own internal battles. There are definitely splinter groups involved in the grander scheme of things who don't approve of the governments actions. This includes whistle blowers from CIA, NSA, etc.

After the revolution?! Hell, I can guarantee you that after war things won't be easy. We will be almost like a third world country. I think we will resort to self governing tribes, groups, posses, or whatever you want to call them. A lot of infrastructure will be destroyed both by citizens and by government. This means no medical facilities, no communications, no internet, a lot of nothing. Self government and Anarchy will likely be a definite reality. They are indeed worse alternatives. It may take quite some time to even reach that level and fully abolish the government.

Truthfully though, it might just be disorganized chaos all over the place. Ideally an organized revolution would be ideal. But deep down inside I know that truthfully, it is impossible to get everyone organized into moral uprising. You got racial agendas, religious agendas, and political agendas. Racial and religious pride has blinded a lot of folks. These people must be discarded. They are of no use. They only serve to further divide and conquer. I don't claim any race or religion. Screw all that racial pride and religious pride.

Other times, I just don't give a flying rats ass about it all due to all the sheep. Sometimes I think we deserve everything that is coming to us.

One thing I am for certain is that violence will be a reality. I have to admit, I'm not all that morally right myself. Revenge is a dish best served cold. I am an advocate of revenge and retribution.

The recent history of Eastern European "velvet revolution" or "gentle revolution" is a fine illustration that bloodshed not need happen in order to engage in revolutionary aims. More importantly, and something certainly lost on the vast majority of the so called 99%, is that capitalism affords a new method of warfare whereby no bloodshed is necessary, and marketplaces are the battlefields.

Today, the Art of War by Sun Tzu is as embraced by business people as it is military personnel, and for good reason. Capitalism is an opportunity to vanquish your foes without resorting to bloodshed and violence, just simply competing with them.

Capitalism seems to be reviled by much of this so called 99% but they clearly are pointing to corporatism, not capitalism. Corporatists hate capitalism and want nothing at all to do with free and unregulated markets, nor massive competition, and fiat currency only facilitates their desire to keep people living as consumers.

Rejecting the regulated market place imposed upon corporations would be a strong method of ushering in change, and fighting a bloodless revolution. Going into business for oneself, instead of viewing that self as an "employee" for some corporation would be a great start in the right direction, (in my not so humble opinion).

Rejecting credentialism and bogus licensing schemes yet another step. Why would a book seller, or a shoemaker need any license to sell books, or make shoes? Who is protected by a licensed book seller, or a licensed shoe maker? The book seller or shoe maker who applies for a license will be instructed to first obtain a federal tax ID number. The book seller or shoemaker who never bothers to apply for a license to exercise what is a right need no federal tax ID number. That voluntary application for a federal tax ID number is the equivalent of a self assessment of liability for the so called "Personal Income Tax" that has fed that humongous beast we call the federal U.S. government. Why keep feeding a beast that bites the hand that feeds it?

You say you want a revolution? Good! Try a velvet revolution of non-acquiescence to tyranny and an insistence on Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Property, and/or Happiness. That's a revolution for the ages!

Originally posted by herecomesthesun
reply to post by truthbet0ld

 

Love to see someone quoting Heinlein, if you are a fan you should read For us, the living. As for the Op, although the author of that lovely piece of literature may feel that way, i doubt that the movement as a whole does not, if they did they would show up with motorcycle helmets and their signs on really think sticks, like the Greeks.

Good idea. I need to retreat into a book from this information war. Thank you for the recommendation. I love sci fi, universe, astronomy, etc.

I hope you "OWS'ERS"recognize the complete tactical blunder you made!

"they" who ever wants you have got you by the short hairs!

"All are welcome! all are "accepted"; no leaders!
A "free soup! "field kitchen "setup and 5gallonsof ex-lax and this whole "crappy movement is finished!!
ANY organization or unit can send in a few t-shirt/bandanna wearing; sign waving guys. and anytime they want to those (three?) guys spread rumors; agitate; ,standup and throw bottles at the police line and it's over. for the entire country!

Curfews; Martial law (After all there's violent rioting in the streets all bets are off!).

Even the "Posse Comittatus laws" make exceptions for putting down "insurrection" within the conus!You have lost what little control you ever had.

You non-military (non"tactical") thinkers never even considered that option( i.e. the masses once organized being usurped for someone elses' cause!(????))
dijooo?

At least my local "teaparty" organization was smart and had designated"security" staff watching the crowd anybody getting out of hand; espousing embarassing "stuff"; not inline with the rally objectives were culled from the crowd before they could cause problems. or embarass our rally with stupid clueless commentary...That's be "descriminatory behavior"(i.e. "not all" are welcome!) to y'alll

reply to post by seabag


Things are getting very strange in Oakland as they gear up for tomorrow.
You will find this interesting. The Mayor has just upped the ante.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

OWS will fail, it will be something people look back on. Some people will say "they had no idea what they were protesting" while others will say "OMG WE WERE THERE!!!WE WERE ANGRY because things were bad and we wanted change... or was that part of an Obama speech?"