Originally posted by Vortiki
reply to post by Frira
This isn't about a traffic ticket, so don't down play this. This is about the future of an entire Nation. This is about people being abused and
their right to assembly being taken away.
Do they have a right to be there? Yes.
Were the asked to leave by the Police? Yes.
Did they have a right to be there after the assembly was declared unlawful (not "violent," but "unlawful") and they were asked by the Police to
I once lived in the state capital city in Texas, Austin, and there are protests all the time downtown. It makes traffic a mess, bus routes rerouted,
people trying to catch the bus home cannot. So the protests are limited to certain areas for specific times. They are accommodated, but not allowed
to disrupt traffic or business beyond the area and time allotted.
Protests intended to flaunt disobedience typically are held on the Congress Street Bridge, and are quickly deemed unlawful assemblies. It is a vital
bridge across the lake-- NECESSARY for police, fire, ambulance, public transportation and so on. They are asked to leave, and then tear gas gets
Even those are "peaceable" unless... it is your father having a heart attack, your house on fire, you stranded twenty miles from home all night, or
your house being broken into..
Why don't you go out there and protest and take a tear gas canister to the face and see how quickly you are to defend our enemy. you think this is a
peaceful protest? Well it is not. Whether people want to admit/realize/or accept that this is a war is irrelevant. what is relevant is one side
attempted to be peaceful, and the police decided they were going to throw the first punch.
I just got through writing that if a police officer fired or tossed a canister at that man's head, I want that officer in prison for life. What is
your issue with me? Hop down off my back, and be peaceable.
The first punch is often what police must do (military as well) if they encounter resistance.
The police's first act was to announce that the assembly was being deemed unlawful and everyone needed to leave. If I had been in Oakland at the
moment, I would have waved at the police, said, "Good night officers" and left.
Next, the police explained the repercussions for not leaving: Chemicals employed, and arrests to be made.
So they want to forcefully remove us from our area of protest, then we will forcefully remove them from our path, it's as simple as that.
No. That is false. The police first declared the assembly unlawful-- at which point it was time to leave. Deliberately refusing to leave took it to
the next step, tear gas. Beyond that, those who stayed wanted to be victims, and left the police no choice but to begin using force.
Throwing an explosive canister at a man's head is attempted murder, but the force to remove the protesters with tear gas was lawful. To declare that
you would use force against the police to remain is criminal.
No big changes are made without force, no one will accomplish anything just standing around chanting, it's time to grow up and realize what the hell
is REALLY happening here.
What is happening?
I am listening to the protesters, but I have yet to hear a statement of unified cause. Without that, I understand the rage at government decisions to
bail out big business and banks-- all because of the greed of the 1%-- but civil disobedience is not hurting the government or the 1%, but the other
If that is enough for you to take up violence-- than you are a criminal, and you are a danger to society, but not to the government nor to the 1%.
Further, you seem to making a call to violence which makes your opposition to my post ironic.
I want our present government to be over-thrown by an outraged public voting in revolutionary leadership instead of the status quo
"party-line" which both the Republicans and the Democrats have fed us for too long.
But if war is required, OWS is neither equipped, nor mentally prepared. That is NOT what those people are about.
You say you didn't see the guy get hit by a tear gas canister or anything else? I guess you believe he did it to his damned self then?
Where do you get that attitude?
You saw what I saw-- and neither of us saw what caused the man to go down-- it is not in the video. That I did not see what was not able to be seen,
by no means makes me biased-- it makes me just. Justice is a good thing-- rare, but good.