Who Or What Is Waiting For Us Somewhere Beyond The Grave?

I read a lot on here and have been for some time, I don't recall me posting though ( at least under this account - my old one got lost when I had to create a new email address )

Anyway, I lost my brother-in-law earlier this year. He was suffering with terminal cancer and towards the end he spoke about 'experiences' he was having to my sister. Now, I'm fully aware of the implications of any medicinal treatments he was undergoing but as it became apparent he was terminal, all treatments were stopped as there was nothing they could do for him. He wasn't in pain as the tumour was pressing on a nerve which left him numb from the neck down or something so even morphine based painkillers were not necessary.

Anyway, he increasingly kept talking about how he was aware of 'what it all meant', 'why we are here' and themes along that vibe. I'd have to talk to my sister again to get all the details and will re-post after I do as I don't want to guess what he was experiencing. He was an absolute athiest, when you're dead, you're dead kinda guy, so it was certainly very odd to hear of him talking about this kind of stuff. What caused these experiences isn't something I would know, pineal gland? Drifting in and out of dream-like states? Who knows? It was very strange though to say the least.

I'm on the fence with all of it to be honest. I guess it would be soothing to imagine consciousness exists after death but there are so many questions and awkward points I wonder about that it often renders the concept redundant. All logic to me, points at death being the extinction of the being, kaput, lights out, call it what you will.

Here are some questions which I have often bought up during conversations on this subject, some basic and all are not necessarily in order.

1. Is there a time before birth when you were aware of existing? For me, the answer is no

2. We are not the only living beings on this planet, or indeed the universe and aside from human ignorance, we are no more important than any other form of life. So with that in mind, any life after death should also extend throughout the cosmos to every organism that has ever existed since the creation of the universe. So does that mean, dinosaurs are wandering about in this afterlife? Am I going to be existing next to a T-Rex or another extinct species when I die? Is the Ant I might have inadvertantly squashed now running around in the afterlife for eternity? In other words, there's no logical reason to assume an afterlife is for humans exclusively but then throw in as many possibilities as you can imagine and you start seeing how silly the concept might actually be.

3. The universe itself. This is the fundamental point of existence, everything that exists within it, must have come from it. Nothing can be separated from it. So in a finite universe, how can infinity exist? If we assume the big bang theory to be correct, it eludes that at that point of creation the cycle started and became what it is and what we are today. With that in mind, where was the 'afterlife' before the big bang? If the afterlife is eternal, how can it have a start point. Also, for billions and billions of years, there wouldn't have been life in any capacity, so what would be the point of an afterlife when there was no life to enter it?

4. Humanity. We haven't been here that long, this planet is miles older than the human species, the universe oncredibly more-so. So what was going on with 'souls' or afterlife before we even existed on this planet. I'd never succumb to the idea that any afterlife came into existence at the onset of humanity. To me, that's nonesensical. And at some point in the future, humanity will become extinct and if you subscribe to the belief that an expanding universe will eventually result in a 'big freeze', so it will too. There will become a time when it cannot sustain life and therefore an afterlife would make no logical sense, as wouldn't re-incarnation or life cycles etc.

Like I say though, I am open minded and I'm kinda on the fence but these are just some of the questions I never hear people talk about in discussions such as this and I often wonder why.

There is life after life ,there are the heavens waiting for you,beautiful things to see,when you die on after life the Banks are waiting for you to pay your debts,BoA has a spot"will get you even on after life,we've got an eternity"

Audiokat...Thanx for sharing your story and i'm sure like myself,everyone is looking forward to reading more about what you might find out from your sister...


How can we find out more,
Who owns the keyless door...
Where does the circle end,
Who are the unwatched men...
Where do we go from here,
Faith is a fading fear...
Life is a waiting room,
I hope they don't call me soon...
How much more do you really
think you know than a flower
does about who's behind the door?


"Who's Behind The Door"?
By,The Rock Group...Zebra

reply to post by blocula
it's not really a mystery, yes there is a god and he looks like us humans as we were made in his image, there are going to be a lot of non believers in this post, but i believe there is an after life and i believe i've been here before according to my dreams i also believe that we will not all die on 21st december 2012 but we will all go to another dimension another world the world we are in at the moment is just an illusion as everything is made up of atoms and atoms cannot solidify so everything we see or touch is not real we are programmed to see what we think we see and when we all leave you may see everything start to vanish before your eyes so it will be best to leave your building and go and stand on natural ground and don't forget pavements and tarmac roads are man made so don't stand on that it must be natural earth this is quoted by david Ike him self and i think he's right all my family and friends will be with me i'm not concerned at all about it i think it's an exciting time that we are all going through and who wants to be here in 2013 when the massive solar flare is due that will fry us all up no doubt about it that's why the illuminati are going under ground away from all the floods the the solar flare will dry up the earth again and they can then start all over again can't they an elite world

There is no way to know for certain until that day comes, then there is going to be something or nothing, but one things for 100% certain, all the little worms will have their knifes and forks out chanting "Bring on the dessert!" (unless your cremated, then someone might accidentally mistake you for gravy one Sunday)

Personally, I am STARTING to believe in the Big bang > Big crunch > Big bang > party all over again. Too many Deja vu where I know I have done it before.

reply to post by blocula


I believe in Jesus Christ. He is all that matters to me. Beyond that i don't care what happens after i die. You can live for the hope of eternal life and live to serve something greater than you, or you can live selfishly and only for yourself and serve nothing but your own wants and desires. What alot of people do not know and do not believe is that death is not the end. When your meat dies that is not the end.

reply to post by blocula


That was a really beautiful poem and it seems to me from reading your posts you already know the answers to your questions. You know the ones before you have gone to a place that also awaits you. They are cheering for you and await the moment of your return.

Life's mysteries can be pondered here in our current energy form, however the knowledge is limited as we are limited through consciousness that knows the purest of love we call life.

When we go back home..everything will come back to light and what was once thought as a loss will be found and remembered! Every movement took will be a movement of loving knowledge. One cannot humanize the experience because it is not comparable with what we currently know.

On Earth we may find a fraction of truth within the collective but only when we quiet our self and learn by listening to others experiences and journey to truth will we be able to add it all together to form the Ultimate truth of love for our brother and sister. We cannot collectively get there when we are at war with another's belief. Another's belief or non belief does indeed fit into the equation....in my opinion of course.

xoxoxox

Jenn

Originally posted by missiongal
reply to post by blocula

 

it's not really a mystery, yes there is a god and he looks like us humans as we were made in his image, there are going to be a lot of non believers in this post, but i believe there is an after life and i believe i've been here before according to my dreams i also believe that we will not all die on 21st december 2012 but we will all go to another dimension another world the world we are in at the moment is just an illusion as everything is made up of atoms and atoms cannot solidify so everything we see or touch is not real we are programmed to see what we think we see and when we all leave you may see everything start to vanish before your eyes so it will be best to leave your building and go and stand on natural ground and don't forget pavements and tarmac roads are man made so don't stand on that it must be natural earth this is quoted by david Ike him self and i think he's right all my family and friends will be with me i'm not concerned at all about it i think it's an exciting time that we are all going through and who wants to be here in 2013 when the massive solar flare is due that will fry us all up no doubt about it that's why the illuminati are going under ground away from all the floods the the solar flare will dry up the earth again and they can then start all over again can't they an elite world

See, the thing about God and us being made in his image also throws me. By God, I presume you refer to an eternal being who wasn't created and has been around infinitely. Here's where I digress from that view of God.

How long have we been here by comparison to the universe? Minutes/milliseconds? I don't know but it's a damn long time. Why then, would God suddenly decide after billions and billions of years to create a being in his own image? Why not there and then from the word go?

Also, that blinkered way of looking at things assumes humanity to be something superior or significant in the universe. We aren't. It also assumes that there isn't any other intelligent life out there in the universe that is different to us. If God made us and in his own image, who or what made other intelligent life out there? ( assuming it exists because we are already down the road of assumption by the very nature of your post )

I'm not saying I don't believe in God or something capable of intelligent design but I think things like biblical accounts and other religeous sources on the topic of creation have been taken too literally throughout time. I'm trying not to go off-topic on this as it was about an afterlife but I think a lot of knowledge around this area was just expressed in a sort of laymans term so as it could be interpreted and comprehended. Then, people have took things literally and have become so black and white/blinkered that they can't possibly ever see the wood for the trees. "This is right and everything else is wrong" kind of attitude, which to me, is the height of human ignorance and delusions of massive grandeur. The human species is no more significant than any other so why would anyone assume it to be modelled on some eternal deity?

What about other 'human' species? Neanderthal? Cro-Magnon? Where did they come from? The whole evolutionary argument for me, challenges the 'God made man in his own image' thing head on.

I would entertain the possibility of universal cycles, an endless and infinite push and pull of big bang/big crunch but that still doesn't stand as a possibility of an existence after death, it could assume an ever existing universe/s but that's it I would say.

I'd be content with the knowldge that nothing in this universe is wasted, everything is recycled in some form or another. Lets assume for a minute that the afterlife is, indeed real. Then, the question is, is it eternal? If it is not, do the 'lights go out' at some point even further down the line? Do I die a second death? I guess it would kinda be pointless if was, so then wouldn't that assume I existed before birth too because I can't remember it? And if I existed before but can't remember it, then we truly do die because if I go on to some other plane of existence after I'm gone but can't remember jack about this existence, how can I call it an afterlife? The being which is me in the here and now, would no longer be me in the afterlife if I have no memory and none of my experiences are kept with me.

I read about some stuff where people who have had NDE's have felt they were 'one' with everything. Like everything was fundamentally connected a 'one-ness' if you like. Like the universe itself was consciousness experiencing itself.

That's the nearest to where I think I'm at in this subject. I'm getting more and more convinced that there's something about the nature of consciousness that we can't comprehend.

reply to post by Audiokat


(((HUGS)))

MY thoughts:

My step son was 5 when I met him. He became terminal with Leukemia at the age of 10 and passed when he was 15. He suffered a lot and it was a nightmare!!!! I can hardly go back to that time without feeling much pain but I can tell you he was aware of where he was going and he made that clear with some of the things he said right before he took his last breath. I could tell you some stories that happened right after his death and my grandfathers death that were signs to me they are ok. They both came to me in different ways and I believe without a shadow of a doubt it was as real as real can be. I experienced this, so why do I expect anyone to believe? A belief will undoubtedly be based on the individual who experienced such phenomenon.

Through experience and artifacts we should all be able to agree there is something more "out there" and this life is nothing but a step toward growth. When we go back home we will see our thoughts were no more than a fraction of what there is and what there will be. Creation continues....it has not stopped.

We will see our loved ones again and anything that was loved by us in which God created within the spectrum of Life. Dogs, cats, tigers...you name it... if it was given life....it will not cease to "be". We all grow for the ultimate cause which is from the love of God.

Everyone believes something and that belief is from the Word....Love. Love will see you through the darkest nights and when this life is over on Earth...the unbeliever/believer will be shown the Truth in which he denied.

What part of denial you hold onto may hold you up for a minute until the denier lets go of the thoughts that hindered growth.

From there we are united and the love story of life continues.


MY Final thoughts:

We have an entire Universe out there that has life within it...all life forms are connected for the greater cause and the goal will be made good within the harmony of the most beautiful love song!!!

reply to post by Audiokat


This pondering you are doing in regards to this thread is so exciting to me. The questions you ask yourself do indeed have answers. Your belief in a greater cause is growing and expanding just as the Universe. You are thinking aloud and posing some great questions and your answers are really exciting to me as I look into your belief and ponder that which you are pondering.

Your thoughts are similar to mine so I am relating on a higher level with you and it comes with a feeling of great love and admiration for you as I can clearly see you thinking a belief through.

What does not make sense to you is something you are trying to make sense of. You are on a roll and it seems as though your sense of knowing rings true but you are not quite sure in your belief because it is growing. Go with it...embrace it.

We all believe different. I think the problem arises when we try and shove our belief onto someone else. A belief or non belief is very personal. We are all different and our belief will be different, yet we can come together and learn the different view points and grow within the belief of Life. We collectively have the answers and some more than others....and I think this is from their growth in knowledge from incarnations.

I for one like to have all the pieces of the puzzle in hand, analyze them, and then begin working with each piece ...one at a time. All life forms and the way they operate is meaningful when pondering life and so is History of said life. Gods creations are remarkably connected and it truly fascinates me when I "see" and "feel" it.

Also, I think The Bible is full of Truth, and everywhere you turn while on this journey will be pieces of truth found by you and anyone who seeks it.

If you ever get to a point where you think ALL life is God..... then ask yourself if it makes sense that every where you look within life (God) is but a portion of Truth.

We live on in my opinion because we have been given Life!!!

I ran out of characters there but what I wanted to say was whether people believe consciousness to be a product of the brain and life experience or whether they believe the brain to be a kind of receiver of an external or universal consciousness?

Due to reading NDE accounts and other stuff like meditation/spiritualism and that kind of thing, there's a common theme whereby a sense of unity/one-ness is felt. I get the impression it's a feeling of everything there ever was or everything that will ever be, no before, no after and a sense of one massive unity or consciousness.

So by my very nature, I started to wonder about consciousness itself, lets assume it's a product of the brain for a minute but then what is the brain, isn't it just made up of energy/matter like anything else, wouldn't it then stand to reason that consciousness itself is intrisically related to the universe like anything else that exists within it?

The question then of course it, 'can consciousness exist without the universe?'. I'd say no because everything that exists in this universe ( including thought processes, consciousness, everything ) must have come from it. Consciousness then ( at least to my limited imagination ) is a product of the universe. It's almost paradoxical.

The hardest part when trying to comprehend something like an afterlife is the limitation of human perception. We assume the world around us to be what it is but it really isn't. Everything we experience is in an area defined by the limits of our perception and therefore, questions like I have and what others have are also generated by the reality in which we perceive and they will only be valid questions from a human perception point of view.

If we could step outside of ourselves and experience reality without limitation, I'm sure things would be radicaly different. All I know for sure, is that there's a hell of a lot more to the true nature of reality than what we experience, whether or not that makes a case for God/afterlife or whatever is unanswerable but it does tend to make me think there's more to it all than this.

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

I didn't realize Humans contained "Artificial" Intelligent.

You dew kNot contain it, you are IT and dumber than a turd, in relation to the knowledge and truth you possessed prior to taking this ride!

Ribbit

Why are you so sure that what you're saying is true? I am not skeptical, in fact I have followed some of your posts and find them interesting. I am also interested in all that Matrix stuff. What I want to know is how have you obtained this knowledge. Is it just your theory or have you been meditating?

Btw I like your sense of humor.

reply to post by Audiokat


I cannot hardly discount human experience. If I were to discount NDE, then I am totally doubting all these people saying the same thing as If I know they are all in conspiracy to lead the rest astray. I just don't see it......I see their experiences as real and as you said...a theme arises in which stories are similar.

Others have OBE and again, I do not discount human experience as everything I have experienced thus far has formed the mind set I now posses.

We can add all experiences up and still not have all the answers to life's questions but I happen to think when we go back home we will unknowingly have what we have searched for our entire life here on Earth. I am not so sure any are privy to all of lifes answers but we will know so much more than we know now as our consciousness will not be as limited.

reply to post by blocula


Very interesting. I am not sure who or what is waiting or even if I (here on earth) am not in some kind of PAUSE state of suspended animation I call life on earth. Maybe I am the one who is by definition "waiting."
I even wonder if the already dead are there. Story goes some of them are and some of them aren't. I think it will be all or nothing but not knowing of course I cannot say anything for sure and why I like to speak to people who have died, and lived to tell about it. They may be wrong and I may be crazy but then again like Billy Joel sings it...They may be right.

reply to post by MamaJ


I have a belief system of sorts but it's not defined by anyone or anything in particular, it's more of an ongoing, evolving outlook for me. As for God, I'm not sure in what capacity I see that because how can I know or believe in something which I don't even know exists? Why put all that energy into something which may not even be there when I could put energy into being a better person day by day, putting energy into love and righteous morals to try and lead a life which I will be staisfied with when I am at the end looking back?

And if God is there, surely he would be advocating lives along that kind of line anyways?

I know people who believe in God and a hereafter and I know people who do not. Neither one of them could be considered better than the other to me. Neither one loves less or cares more etc but with love in your heart, is that not God-like anyway, regardless of whether you think he exists as an entity or not?

Here's a valid question: If I grew up on a desert island with no people around, I'd never 'know' God as described in text stuff, then compare that with growing up ( in my case ) in western society where indoctrination and dogmatic approaches almost tell you that God exists and you must worship him or you're a sinner etc.

The difference would be that the only thing I know about God, are what other people tell me, and what those other people know about God, are what other people have told them. Take this back far enough and someone somewhere at some point in time, may have instilled that much fear into people that they literally were scared out of their wits and whilst they would have had no personal experience of this God, through fear and false information about the afterlife and creation etc, would have felt almost forced into believing in a diety that they never had first hand experience of.

I think if there is a God, man destroyed him long ago by the very nature of man. Warping and twisting true spiritual enlightenment for his own needs and prosperity through religion and other dogmatic belief systems.

If I find God, it wont be through mans idea of God but the sad part is, I've only heard of God because I was told he existed when I was a kid so for the hypothetical child growing up on an isolated island, he could grow old and die without ever contemplating the thought.

reply to post by Audiokat


I totally relate to your thoughts and how you are processing information.

In regards to your comment about being in a remote land whereas you do not hear stories about God, do you think you may question your existence and ponder life none the less? With time being a part of this existence one would ponder a beginning, I think. My thoughts take me to wonder all possibilities and whether I live in the West or not, I still think I would ponder a creator of that which I am.

We see proof of past civilizations doing such pondering. This is essentially history.

The dogma that comes into play and the human spins are everywhere but within each I think is truth.

Like you said, whether a person believes or not does not make them better. Within our limited energy form we are all capable of showing, giving, and receiving love and this love can also manifest within each day we are given on Earth. So be it.

Looking back on a life given that was spent making, sharing and receiving love is a life worth living.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by blocula

 

The only thing I DO know about the afterlife is that the more someone is SURE they know about it.....the more illogical, insane and intolerant they become.

Was that supposed to be a statement showing us what tolerance looks like-- leading by example? Ha!

I get your meaning, I think-- especially those whose fixation is that everyone else is going to Hell.

I have had two near death experiences-- one with a "vision" but the other equally metaphysical. It was unique to me, but it matches many others. Twice, also, I have encountered the presence of a departed loved one-- soon after their death but before I had confirmation of their deaths. These things are evidence FOR ME-- not for anyone else.

My experiences are unique, but the theme of them is not. I do not fear death-- and I have reason for that.

I worked with the dying for over a decade, and heard much of the hopes and fears. The hopes expressed so often come with stories of experiences they had had which they did not wish to tell for fear of being considered "insane"-- but their stories are very human-- very common.

I did not experience seeing departed loved ones greeting me in the light, but instead I saw the Source of the light, and He told me I was not supposed to be there. I was not happy about it then and I am not happy about it now.

When your body dies it returns to the dust. Your spirit lives on. I have studied the paranormal for some years now and i have run into entities and occurances that defy human explaination. I've seen things and heard things that could not be there and that science is unable to explain and yet they still happened. Dead people are not "dead" their body is dead but they are very much still alive in the spirit.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
When your body dies it returns to the dust. Your spirit lives on. I have studied the paranormal for some years now and i have run into entities and occurances that defy human explaination. I've seen things and heard things that could not be there and that science is unable to explain and yet they still happened. Dead people are not "dead" their body is dead but they are very much still alive in the spirit.

In what capacity do you believe this though? What image do you have of you in an afterlife and when was your 'spirit' created?

Science is unable to explain a lot of things but why do we feel the need to immediately assume it's something extraordinary in a spiritual sense?

I still ask these two questions in regard to an afterlife.

1. Who resides there and how or when did it come about?
2. Who or what existed in this afterlife before the appearance of the human species?

I post my above reply, leave my desk to grab lunch from the kitchen, sit down to eat and turn on the television.

Without changing the channel, it is some movie (of which I have seen less than five minutes) of a man who had a NDE, and they are discussing the "residual effects" common to such experiences!

Something I have wondered about is related. My first NDE was when I was six. Maybe before that (because I had had visions before I was six), but certainly since then, I seem to have retained some thread which seems to connect me-- sort of one foot in the common and one foot out into something far greater, far more exciting and far more Real.

More than four decades later, the sum of my experiences all point to a sense of not belonging here but forced to remain for some purpose I do not know. You would think that my life in the world would be dull as a result, as if waiting for something to happen rather than doing anything-- waiting for what feels like punishment to end. But the opposite is true. While it "feels" dull and oppressive to me, no one who knows me would claim my life to be dull and without purpose.

I wonder about that all the time. So many "chance" events in my life that have been the stuff of novels:

Adventures, tragedy, danger, excitement, tragedy, miracles (have I mentioned tragedy?!), great love, great loss, and so many times being at the right place and the right time when another needed it but never knowing how to get what I want-- intuition but not premonition, usefulness but not purpose, and function but not form.

Maybe that is the "norm" for describing a spiritually led life, but maybe the NDE at age six, showed me that life by making it real-- even in the common. Either a mixed blessing or it is all blessing that is half resented by me.