Moral's are dying

reply to post by UnlimitedSky


No you are wrong about sex.
You'd like everyone to believe sex should be a sacred way to get close but you sound like a mushy wushy soap opera watcher.
Sex can be just for fun and have no meaningfulness except to acheive a nice orgasm.
Now if you are not happy with what your doing personally, than get out. But dont try and tell us that your version of lovey dcovey sex is any better than anyone else's sex.
It's people who treat lifeless objects as important. That's why our morals are eroding at a fast pace.

Originally posted by Salamandy
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Materialism says the person puts credence in material objects. People will screw the other guy basically to get a nicer piece of flash than the next guy.

I own lots of material objects and I never "screwed the other guy" to get them. It's the same way for everyone I know.

Men are becoming feminine because of it and forgetting to be kind to their fellow man

Well, this is bizarre on many levels.

Looks to me like you've set up some weird straw men here and really didn't show us anything about the connection between materialism and morals.

Originally posted by Salamandy

It's people who treat lifeless objects as important. That's why our morals are eroding at a fast pace.

My house, a lifeless object, is important for shelter. That doesn't erode my morals.
Food, lifeless object, is important for survival. That doesn't erode my morals.

Originally posted by Maslo
People tend to idealize the past and view the future negatively, even if there is no basis for it. In many ways, the youth of today is much more moral than in the past.

Bull. Most young people today don't respect their teachers nor their parents.

The problem is PC gone too far. Parents and teachers aren't allowed to punish (non corporeal) unruly kids because that would be child abuse
Teachers may get fired and parents risk a visit from CPS.

reply to post by Salamandy



It is your right to say I sound like a 'mushy wushy soap opera watcher' if that is how sacred love/sex is percieved by you. That does not take anything away from what I am and does not effect me.

Also, to say I am wrong about sex is a huge judgment on your part. You are most welcome to your view about sex, and so am I. Neither of us are wrong or right. There is however, the concept of what works and what does not work, and for me it works to value sex deeply and not dish it out to every man crossing my road. It makes me feel really good inside to value myself and the other party. Sex as a passtime at every opportunity, brings us to the level of animals, in my humble opinion. It may not be how you experience it, and that is how it is for you.

You are entitled to your views about sex.
But please make no assumptions about my 'happyness with what I am doing', because you absolutely do not know me and I do not have to respond to that statement, it does not deserve to be dignified with a response or proof of my inner well being.

It is not that I think that 'lovey-dovey sex' is better, it is that I know one's self worth and self respect (and that of your partner) grows through 'lovey dovey sex'. I have experienced the other side, and it made me feel utterly cheap and unvalued. Luckily I grew out of it.

Salamandy, I wish you everything that is true, kind and necesarry.

reply to post by Phantom traveller

What you can do if you really care, is change on person at a time

Hey mate thank's for your input.
Yes this would be a start.
Each one of us.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Maybe the only ones we can really change is ourselves. We can share ideas, encourage people, and help them to form new opions, but true change can only be achieved by the person himself.

Give love and show kindess, and it will eventually inspire others. But maybe lets start with ourselves.

John Lennon, Beautiful Boy:
'every day, in every way
getting better and better...'

Hello Dr. C.

I think of it in terms of "values". If you value honesty, you will be honest. If you value generosity, you will be generous. If you value hard work, you will work hard.

If you aspire to as getting as much as possible, for as little as possible, so you can laugh about it later, and tell your friends, then this is what you will do.

Developing values comes from one's self, and are taught by others. You can learn the value of living in a household where no one drinks or uses drugs from your parents; or you can grow up in a household where the parents abuse substances on a daily basis, and - on your own- develop the value of wanting to maintain a sober household when you grow up.

As far as sex is concerned, there was a time when men wanted to marry "a virgin". This was a value for males, and girls remained virgins, because they wanted to be respectful, and be a "good catch" for their future husband.

It seems like guys no longer care if a girl is "a virgin". I don't think it's expected, and girls are aware of this, so it is less of a value for them. Guys seem to value dating girls that will have sex with them. Sexually active girls are somehow "cooler". So that old value has been lost.

I only scanned a few of the other posts, but is there some kind of debate over "lovey dovey" sex, versus non-lovey-dovey sex?

Pleeze. No contest. Anybody who has had it both ways can tell you that "lovey-dovey" sex is infinitely superior.

*One last thought. People don't stop and consider what they truly value. Once you do, and you know what your values are, living a life which is congruent with those values is called Integrity. I do still see integrity from people in abundance, although their values might be different than mine.

reply to post by Salamandy

No you are wrong about sex. You'd like everyone to believe sex should be a sacred way to get close but you sound like a mushy wushy soap opera watcher.

No she's not wrong about the act of making love between two people who love each other, that's not only sacred to some or most people but also the most natural thing.
I see what you mean with sex can and is used for pleasure other than love and pleasure.
But you see that is why we have so many teenage mothers pushing prams about.
So you cant have the bread buttered on both sides.

I see alot of young girls going to school dressed like an mtv video clip.
These girls are 13, 14.
Just the other day I was talking to one as she stands by my kiosk every morning waiting for her friend's to catch the bus. She just turned 14 actually and she was telling me how her mum doesnt want her to sleep with her boyfriend who is over 18. She was standing there holding her books and that. I serve chewing gum to this girl.
She then was telling how she dont like school blah blah. I try to school her as best I can.
Now this girl is not interested in school, her boyfriend is over 18!!!
A mess and an illegal one aswell.
Anyway I give her some kiosk advice as I do to everyone, but it makes me think, this is just one example.

I hate these threads. A little googling can show you that crime has actually decreased. Times are better, not worse. But people only want to see the bad the MSM gives them.


Just what morals are people referring too? And this should exclude the changes of time, society changes, deal with it. Or read Who Moved My Cheese.


You bring up the youth who don't have a work ethic, is it really the youth doesn't have a work ethic? or is it the corporations who no longer take care of employees, ship jobs overseas, and fire people before they can collect retirement? Causing employees to go from job to job trying to look for a satisfying workplace?


Lets look at the definition of morals:

The term “morality” can be used either

1.descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
a.some other group, such as a religion, or
b.accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
2.normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

stanford.edu

It is simply a code of conduct.


I find it interesting that so many ATSers don't like code of conduct being regulated by any entities, but gripe and bemoan the failings of the world if they don't submit to their own code of conduct.

And the world is just falling apart.
But it isn't.

And yes, this is the same speech when people lament the good ol' days. Thank god they are over. I wouldn't want to be there.

How about helping those in need. How many people on here are griping about low morals, but in the next conversation railing against welfare recipients? Yet they cry to not take their hard earned money.

A good standard for a moral society is taking care of those in need.

Though shall not kill. That one has been there a long time. It is a pretty uniform, accepted moral. Yet only in recent times are:

people getting compensation for getting killed on the job

that you don't get shot for stealing a horse

that we have all these government subsidized fire, medical and hospital services that come and rescue you and/or save your life. Then there are the coastal gaurds, lifegaurds, security and police officers, homeless shelters, animal shelters, battered women's shelters.

Yep, we are doing horribly.

In fact, morality can be used as a form of supression. A society can become so restrictive that a community is under oppression and can no longer function.

Be careful ats, you can easily become the powers you despise by advocating so much more morality for your peers.

Sounds to me that you don't want the government to do it because you do.

Too much morality leads to burkahs forced military servitude.

at the end of the day its just opinion. your vs mine. for me something is ok, and maybe for you not. for example I dont see anything wrong with drugs or suicide etc. maybe you do, but that's just your opinion.

reply to post by nixie_nox


What great thoughts, Nix. They cheered me up.

reply to post by Maslo

Failed civilisations? Ancient Greece was among the most developed civilisations of all time, it survived for a millenium (and then only transformed into Byzantine empire) and its cultural and scientific achievements were not bested until renaissance. It is the polar opposite of a failed civilisation.

Well said. A star for you.

Ancient Greece is, with the possible exception of the Chinese, the most successful human civilization of all. It not only lasted over a thousand years, it was the ancestor and inspiration to the even longer-lived Roman Empire (the people who ran it all spoke Greek except to their servants) as well as modern Western civilization, neither of which have been able to surpass the artistic and intellectual attainments of their forebear. The only exception to this statement is modern science; admittedly a vast exception, but then, it is to the Greeks that we trace the origins of science, too.

Oh, and did I mention Christianity? That’s pretty much a Greek invention, too.

‘Failed civilization’, my eye.

*

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

Ancient Greece went into major decline and pretty much fell apart shortly after the death of the philosopher you quoted.

The Byzantine era introduced a new type of society, which we call Hellenistic.

I’m aware of this, and I am sure Maslo is, too. Hesiod lived about three hundred years before Plato, during the Homeric period. Between him and Plato lie all the greatest achievements of Greek civilization except for the works of Homer. Funny that they should both, one at the beginning of a golden age and the other at the end of one, be at one with the OP and each other in decrying the morals of the youth of their time.

As for Byzantium, it was yet another of the progeny of Greece, along with Rome and the modern West. And Byzantium, too, endures, across the mountains of eastern Europe and the steppes beyond, and in the enduring power and influence of the Eastern Orthodox church.

We must do what we want, that's our divine way, to follow what we want. I mean what we really want, find the way, live it. Be true to ourselves, express our higher wishes.
The lessons to be learned are waiting in every wish, every desire.
I believe the goal is to live life, to experience it, and learn form it, learn to be good, to express good values, such as kindness, love etc etc.
But we must live the illusions first, and then get rid of then and learn the higher lessons to move on.
This world is a world of free will, where the souls can get away from love, we have freedom here and we must find the way by ourselves, its a tough game, but we chose it and we are not alone, there is always someone helping, we may not see it, but its there, in a friend, in a relative, in a dream, in a sudden thought or a vision that brings solutions...
People with no morals are doing their thing, living the dark side, but eventually they will see the light, they are living the illusion, one day they will learn. We must have compassion. Its like a dumb student, he needs help, he doesn't need to be mocked.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Where are you referring to?

The United States?

Don't you think there's a correlation between the drop in crime, and the ever increasing number of criminals behind bars

Just shut them away..

Shhh...

Everything is fine!

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Materialism involves greed or is procured to attain a certain status level. This is the materialism we can do with less of to bring back some morality.

Do I really need to give examples of specific acts of greed? Do we not all agree materialism is routed in greed or lust for social status?

Live simply so that others may simply live. Its truer than we want to admit.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Im not saying people cannot have wonderfully beautiful emotional closeness when it comes to their sex. However, the poster pretty much said our morality is being lost primarily due to the fact that people have recreational sex in the manner she described.

My point is that she was being shortsighted and that in no way is morality on the decline because some adults choose to have recreational sex. Maybe if they are cheating on their significant others, but to concentrate on matters of the flesh as a focal point to describe the overall decline of morality is childish.

We should all remember that saving yourself until marriage is quite frankly an outdated viewpoint and solely rooted in religion. Not everyone is religious yet we all have morals.

reply to post by Salamandy


It's testosterone, kid.

You may be intelligent, and have less testosterone than average, but the highly intelligent who bizarrely still have high testosterone levels seek social dominance at the higher socio-economic strata.

Originally posted by Salamandy
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

We should all remember that saving yourself until marriage is quite frankly an outdated viewpoint and solely rooted in religion. Not everyone is religious yet we all have morals.

Religion was a facilitator of some morals.

It's not outdated.

It serves a very good purpose.

People who screw like wild rabbits, having multiple partners before marriage, are infinitely more likely to have a child out of wedlock, than someone who waits until marriage.

Anyone who bothers to look up the stats on differences in criminal behavior, IQ, socioeconomic status, etc...and the lack of two stable parental figures, would agree that getting the wily wet before being ready to commit is idiotic.

Lots of ignorant fools out there these days!

reply to post by unityemissions


Id have to agree with you there. Testosterone is a powerful chemical.

Id be willing to bet the inability to suppress it plays a humungous part in a lot immoral acts such as murder and rape.
So if we encourage people to maintain healthy testosterone levels (working on eliminating the need for social dominance at the higher socio-economic strata BS), this would be a problem?

People would still want to work and provide healthy market places to flourish in. Just eliminate the A holes.