Why is everyone afraid of a place called HELL?

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

OK, very good point, but if someone has not come under the new covenant that the blood of Jesus makes possible, is his or her life not required for sinning?

Maybe this will answer your questions regarding the new covenant:

www.gotquestions.org...

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

OK, very good point, but if someone has not come under the new covenant that the blood of Jesus makes possible, is his or her life not required for sinning?

If you are not covered by the blood of Christ by confessing your sins to him and asking forgiveness and accepting his gift of redemption, then yes your "life" is forfiet, insofar as your "life" being your eternal life at the end. What is referred to as the new covenant is acceptance that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior and then you stop living your life for yourself but you live your life for him and do his will and keep his commandments. Just paying lip service to the Lord isn't enough to get you into heaven, you have to not just talk the talk, but you also have to walk the walk.

This is how you show Jesus that you love him, by being an example. Think of it like this. Children are the exact mirrors of their parents. What you see little children doing, they learned from their parents. As Jesus Christ is our father so to must we mirror him and his actions to honor him and for his glory. Jesus protects his children from all manner of hurts and pains and torments. He protects us from the fires of the lake, from the depths of hell, from the fallen angels who seek to rip us apart in this world. He stands in front of his children the way a father shields his little ones from danger, this is also why he makes the worst enemy you will ever have if you choose to be his enemy and not his child.

Jesus said "woe be unto he who should hurt one of my little ones, better it be that he tie a millstone about his neck and throw himself into the sea". This is the reason why christians are supposed to pray for those who offend us and hurt us, because our father may lash out at them and punish them and God is one being you don't want a spanking from, because his spankings last for eternity.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

. . .if someone has not come under the new covenant that the blood of Jesus makes possible, is his or her life not required for sinning?

I was reading this Ugaritic myth last night of Baal and Mot, I think it was. Where Baal is one of the sons of El who is the father of all the gods.
Baal has a nice new palace made on a mountain top and invites fellow gods to the palace for a open house party. Mot is not happy with the bread and wine Baal offers his guests, being used to devouring lives, being a god of the underworld and Death incarnate, so he demands from Baal, the lives of his brothers.
Anyway, it goes on and on but this is the Canaanite myth of life and death.
I usually give the technical definition of the New Covenant from Paul and Hebrews but there is a more simple version which is what Jesus describes at the last supper, involving the concepts of the flesh and blood, and the bread and wine. You could make a little parable out of the mythological by saying when death comes to devour your soul to hell, offer him up the bread and wine which is Christ, and he goes away satisfied.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

. . .if someone has not come under the new covenant that the blood of Jesus makes possible, is his or her life not required for sinning?

I was reading this Ugaritic myth last night of Baal and Mot, I think it was. Where Baal is one of the sons of El who is the father of all the gods.
Baal has a nice new palace made on a mountain top and invites fellow gods to the palace for a open house party. Mot is not happy with the bread and wine Baal offers his guests, being used to devouring lives, being a god of the underworld and Death incarnate, so he demands from Baal, the lives of his brothers.
Anyway, it goes on and on but this is the Canaanite myth of life and death.
I usually give the technical definition of the New Covenant from Paul and Hebrews but there is a more simple version which is what Jesus describes at the last supper, involving the concepts of the flesh and blood, and the bread and wine. You could make a little parable out of the mythological by saying when death comes to devour your soul to hell, offer him up the bread and wine which is Christ, and he goes away satisfied.

edit on 10-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

You read Ugaritic myths and call me an apostate? Ha! OK,I've read Gilgamesh myself, so I can't throw stones. My bad. Actually, there is some value in that stuff, for we see some of the data in the Bible, just twisted and degraded. There is a tribe in the hills of southern China which has preserved a very accurate oral version of Genesis, right up to the Tower of Babel incident. They even preserve the phonetic names of various Bible characters, except Adam, who they call the Patriarch Dirt.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

My bad. Actually, there is some value in that stuff, for we see some of the data in the Bible, just twisted and degraded. There is a tribe in the hills of southern China which has preserved a very accurate oral version of Genesis, right up to the Tower of Babel incident. They even preserve the phonetic names of various Bible characters, except Adam, who they call the Patriarch Dirt.

And so they should remember all of that, we all have the same ancestors in the same family tree when you go back far enough. Many nations don't remember much after the tower of babel because that was when all of mankind went from sharing the same phonetic language to having different languages. They call the adama the "patriarch dirt" because Adam was not his real name. His name has been lost to time, all we know is that he was the "adama" hebrew for "first man" as what he is called in the Torah. Noah may have known his real name since Noah was his great great great grandson or close to that, but since then his name has faded from history.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

. . .and call me an apostate?

You subscribe to what amounts to a manufactured folklore, that was consciously made to produce a national identity for the people living in various regions in the Persian Empire, to have a certain cohesiveness to go to Palestine and to colonize it while following practices of ethnic cleansing while they promote their own central-Asian language as being the Holy tongue and giving it the name, Hebrew. These were the Jews (as opposed to, Judeans, the people who were the inhabitants of Judea), back in that time, going back to before Alexander, all the way through the time of Jesus, and up to their banishment from what was then given the name, Palestine, under Emperor Hadrian.
Then you toss out the teachings of an actual historical person, Paul, and the founder of what we know as Christianity, in favor of a manufactured-in-Babylon myth.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Whoa! You say I subscribe to this stuff, when I have never heard of it before, but just now from you. This boggles my mind, and buggers the question: where did you get this idea? Our sources of information must be radically different. You even accuse me of tossing out Paul, my favorite NT writer. Will your acrimony never end??

reply to post by Deetermined


Here we go again with Satan must only share additional knowledge. You give him way too much credit. I get this a lot on this board, about where I get my additional information. All i can say is if you knew you wouldn't doubt what I share. I'm saying there is more that goes on thats not included. Just like there was more to:
Satans fall
The 1000 yr rein
Abraham visit to heaven
Enoch
The Flood
Bunch of more information that is not included in the bible. My source comes from the great library above, the heavenly books.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Whoa! You say I subscribe to this stuff, when I have never heard of it before, but just now from you. This boggles my mind, and buggers the question: where did you get this idea? Our sources of information must be radically different. You even accuse me of tossing out Paul, my favorite NT writer. Will your acrimony never end??

I'm not saying you subscribe to my explanation of the history of the Jews.
I am saying you subscribe to their propaganda which is that they have a divine right to the land.
I am accusing you of discarding the teaching of Paul that Jesus died to free us from the tyranny of national distinctions and towards a universal gift, not exclusive to the few.
The acrimony is not directed to you as if I am saying you in particular are at fault, but all who buy into the lies are doing so by discarding the truth.

Now I see where some of you are getting this stuff:

"Now turn to Revelation 20. After the Millennium, what happens? A resurrection! The dead stand before God. This couldn't include true Christians today, as they will appear before the judgment seat when Christ returns. It couldn't refer to those converted during the Millennium. They have already inherited the Kingdom during the Millennium, after living out a normal life-span. Those in this resurrection must be those who died in ignorance in past ages! They are not brought to life until after the Millennium (Revelation 20:5)."

www.cogwriter.com...

It is my belief that the remaining "dead" that are resurrected at the end of the Millennium are the dead in hell, where they experience the second death after being judged and then cast into the lake of fire.

If any of you want to stop being so secretive enough to counter that belief, feel free.

reply to post by Deetermined


True. There is still more that goes on during the second death, which I am referring to. Parameters must be followed, I wish you would understand that, its not about being secretive.

The saints won't go through judgement, only the ones who chose the wrong path.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined

 

True. There is still more that goes on during the second death, which I am referring to. Parameters must be followed, I wish you would understand that, its not about being secretive.

The saints won't go through judgement, only the ones who chose the wrong path.

Please explain this, it sounds very gnostic...

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined

 

True. There is still more that goes on during the second death, which I am referring to. Parameters must be followed, I wish you would understand that, its not about being secretive.

The saints won't go through judgement, only the ones who chose the wrong path.

After reading Revelation 20:11-15 again, I do notice that there is a separation in specifying "13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them."

So, those that are dead in the sea must be different than the dead in Hades/Hell.

I also noticed how Ezekiel 37 talks about the dead Jews being resurrected and placed back in the land of Israel so that they would know he was the Lord. Is this during the Millennium? I know the Millennium is supposed to be the time that God makes good on all his covenants. Or are you saying that they are part of the dead after the Millennium and God puts them in the New Jerusalem?

reply to post by Akragon


This is a highly split issue. Many believe you sleep after death until judgement day. Some believe you will go to heaven (if you are a true saint) after death. When researching scripture on this issue, you have to look at it from the point of view of making that choice or still on the fence, then it becomes clear.

If you are a true believer, after death you will go to heaven. You will then come back and assist with judging the dead. As Jesus states he will come back with thousands upon thousands of his saints to judge.

If you make it to the end, you will go up in the rapture mid tribulation. At that time Hell will literally be on earth. The believers won't get to live during the thousand year rein, this is reserved for those who made that choice during the tribulation period. This will be the chance for them to really prove themselves. Satan and his angels can't influence at this time, you will only have your mind and God to depend on.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Let's get this straight, shall we? Man is not a trinity. Look at how God created Adam. He made a body and then breathed into it the Breath of Life. Thus, man became a living soul. So: body + spirit = soul. We are one, not three. We don't have souls, we are souls. I am a soul. You are a soul. I am always amazed at how many Christians do not know this.

Lets get this straight shall we? When you die your body returns to the dust and your spirit goes to be with Jesus Christ when you die. Therefore your body cannot be your soul. God made adam in his image, and God has 3 parts to him the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In order for him to make man in his image he would have to give adam the same 3 parts that he has. Body, spirit and soul. That is what it means when it says he made man in his image. God breathed into man the breath of life yes. He breathed into him both breath and life without "breath" there can be no "life", so what we have are 3 parts not 1+1=2 but 1+1+1=3. By saying that God just gave adam a spirit and a soul without a body theres no way adma can be in the image of God, it does not fit. Btw ultimately it doesn't matter how God made adam, that has no bearing on your salvation, this ends up being an arguement over semantics. I am surprised you haven't picked up on the breadcrumbs God has left in the bible that plainly tells you about him. Althroughout the bible he tells you who he is. Each and every passage, parable, story, law, metaphor, allegory and allusion is a piece of the puzzle to unlocking who he is and what he is about.

reply to post by Deetermined


The sea's dead refers to people who didn't make that choice, the lost souls. The hades dead refers to those who made Satan their Father.

The other question I will have to search, give me a second.


There are also some that decide to stay. This is what you consider ghosts.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Both of you are close in a way. Man starts off as one entity. When you come to Earth, you are split down the middle to become two. One side your spirit, the other side your human side which controls the body. Outer + Inner = You. Your outer self, which you use to read this and respond to this message will continue on to be the outer control person when you gain your heavenly garments.

Lazarus Short Stated:

We don't have souls, we are souls.

This is correct in a way. You are part of your original self. But, the body (the earthly garment) is just a vessel in which you experience the physical world, nothing more.

lonewolf19792000 Stated:

By saying that God just gave adam a spirit and a soul without a body theres no way adma can be in the image of God, it does not fit

God doesn't have a body. Also, he has not one spirit but seven.

Thanks for giving me areas to research. I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow.

Jhill76, where can I find the "parameters" that you speak of? Where can I find them?

reply to post by Deetermined


Parameters I must follow when going further than what is not in the bible. Set forth by Father.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Parameters I must follow when going further than what is not in the bible. Set forth by Father.

Are these the texts that were left out of the Bible or is there more to it?