Why is everyone afraid of a place called HELL?

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Parameters I must follow when going further than what is not in the bible. Set forth by Father.

Are these the texts that were left out of the Bible or is there more to it?

Yes, among others. The great library is the size of a large city, that can tell you how many books there are. Not just books but there is also other ways of viewing events that took place and will take place. PM for more on this.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Whoa! You say I subscribe to this stuff, when I have never heard of it before, but just now from you. This boggles my mind, and buggers the question: where did you get this idea? Our sources of information must be radically different. You even accuse me of tossing out Paul, my favorite NT writer. Will your acrimony never end??

I'm not saying you subscribe to my explanation of the history of the Jews.
I am saying you subscribe to their propaganda which is that they have a divine right to the land.
I am accusing you of discarding the teaching of Paul that Jesus died to free us from the tyranny of national distinctions and towards a universal gift, not exclusive to the few.
The acrimony is not directed to you as if I am saying you in particular are at fault, but all who buy into the lies are doing so by discarding the truth.

edit on 10-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

How did you EVER get the idea that I bought into the Jew's propaganda, or that I thought they had a diving right to Palestine? Palestine rightfully belongs to the Palestinians, who are probable more Israelitish than their Jewish oppressors. Further, many of them are our Christian brothers. I have posted as much here at ATS, and I would be interested as to how you made this inference. Did you miss my recent post to the effect that the Jews will take their rightful place with the Goat Nations? BTW, I like what you say about a "universal gift."

reply to post by Lazarus Short
Your comment about God taking a "second look" at them.
If you don't want people to misconstrue your thoughts behind your posts, I suggest writing better posts instead of calling people names who misunderstand you.
Either say what you mean and explain, or don't post.
If you insist on posting anyway, don't complain about reactions you get.

After much prayer, contemplation and research relating to some of the claims that have been proposed here regarding the possibility that there is no eternal hell or punishment for mankind, but only for Satan, the Beast and False Prophet, here are my personal conclusions and it all boiled down to one thing.....

FREE WILL

Here is a link to an article that I thought described it best and why God gave it to us in the first place along with an excerpt:

"Nothing is beyond the power of God. However, God has chosen in His sovereignty to do some things and not to do others. He did not, for example, immediately cast the devil into the lake of fire when he rebelled against Him. God could indeed have made us, mankind, without free will. He could have made Satan incapable of choosing against Him - but that would have also made Satan incapable of choosing for Him, and it is willing worshipers that God wants (Jn.4:23), not automatons. This one fact tells us volumes about the awesome God we serve. He wants us to experience the joy that comes from seeking and serving Him as we should, and He will not force us down the right path, but like the loving Father He is, will guide us, and encourage us and help is in ways we cannot even imagine, responding beyond any expectation to any and all positive turnings toward Him and His Son and the service thereof."

ichthys.com...

After extensive research on the word "Reconciliation" throughout the Bible, it is obvious to me (and possibly only me) that all reconciliation and restoration is only provided to those who already have faith and accept Jesus Christ. After we have accepted him, we will be restored to his likeness and our "free will" will be reconciled to his will. See quote below for why I see this as the definition for reconciliation.

"But just as Christians, genuine believers in Jesus, do not do all they should for Him at all times, and sometimes do things they should not (exercising their "choice" for ill instead of for good), so on a more basic level most of the human race has chosen not to respond to salvation at all (despite the price Jesus paid). We are His, indeed. But even slaves are sometimes disobedient; even soldiers can be lax; even the best of servants sometimes perform sub-par; and every son and daughter is at some time or other disobedient to their parents (and requires the firm hand of discipline to correct their course in love). We are His servants, we are His soldiers, we are His children - but we still have to day by day commit ourselves to "offering these bodies as living sacrifices" (Rom.12:1-2), and to "picking up our cross" to follow Him wherever He leads."

Although I did find the verse below to be convincing that all people will eventually know of Jesus, I did not find it convincing that it meant all will accept him. Satan knew Jesus, it didn't mean he accepted him. Also, in no translation did I find the verses below to use the word "will" over "should".

Philippians 2:10-11

"10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Thanks to everyone! I really did enjoy all of our discussion and all of your thoughts and opinions. It really made me think!

reply to post by Deetermined

You're making me very ill.
Write a new post because I can't even look at the one you just put up.
If you want people to read your thoughts, write them out.
I am not going to read a post that is a pasted up article from the internet.
Make a clean post, meaning something you wrote yourself (with not pasted in stuff from other authors, please), then post it, and I will read it.
I do not read spam.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You're making me very ill.
Write a new post because I can't even look at the one you just put up.
If you want people to read your thoughts, write them out.
I am not going to read a post that is a pasted up article from the internet.
Make a clean post, meaning something you wrote yourself (with not pasted in stuff from other authors, please), then post it, and I will read it.
I do not read spam.

You worry me. I don't think you were meant to read my post.

reply to post by Deetermined


Reconciliation only to those of faith. Yes, you have summed it up quite clearly. Once your in, Father works on you and things are no more by chance.

Psalm 41
For the music director; a psalm of David.
How blessed is the one who treats the poor properly!
When trouble comes, the Lord delivers him.
May the Lord protect him and save his life!
May he be blessed in the land!
Do not turn him over to his enemies!
The Lord supports him on his sickbed;
you completely heal him from his illness.
As for me, I said:
“O Lord, have mercy on me!
Heal me, for I have sinned against you!
My enemies ask this cruel question about me,
‘When will he finally die and be forgotten?’
When someone comes to visit, he pretends to be friendly;
he thinks of ways to defame me,
and when he leaves he slanders me.
All who hate me whisper insults about me to one another;
they plan ways to harm me.
They say,
‘An awful disease overwhelms him,
and now that he is bed-ridden he will never recover.’
Even my close friend whom I trusted,
he who shared meals with me, has turned against me.
As for you, O Lord, have mercy on me and raise me up,
so I can pay them back!”
By this I know that you are pleased with me,
for my enemy does not triumph over me.
As for me, you uphold me because of my integrity;
you allow me permanent access to your presence.
The Lord God of Israel deserves praise
in the future and forevermore!
We agree! We agree!

This is a description of a harsh and cruel world where even the best of people get ill treated and come to a bitter end. Is the subject of this verse describing something peculiar to himself? I don't think so. It is a universe of the material existence which has things like exploding stars, dying suns, killer cosmic rays and colliding galaxies, where everything gets eaten up and turned from matter to energy, and back. How does a person survive in such a universe and what sort of perverse god runs it? Hmm.
Pretty screwed up situation where there is cause and effect and every deed seems to have a negative reward, no matter the nature of that original deed, whether good or bad. What can we do against these capricious gods of fate? Nothing, so we live, and the very existence of our life demands death, under the rule of these gods.
The fates send out their spirits to deliver the requitals, or their determinations, punishments for our deeds without consideration for how many good deeds we do. We are damned and the knowledge of our own damnation haunts us in our sleep and in our waking. The spirits of our doom fill our souls to make us cry out in pain and our life is only suffering as we await our utter destruction and the revelation of the worthlessness of our very existence, to be forsaken and to never be revisited. Our very memory wiped clean, as if we never were. Such is all our fates.
Unless, there is somehow another world we don't know about because it is not something we can see.
Well, we know there is such a place, don't we? Yes, so what do we do about it? Understand that what we do is of worth and value, if not in this world, then in the other. What can we do with such an understanding? Drive out the demons, as Jesus commanded us to do. What? What is these demons we are supposed to drive out? The messengers of doom who haunt our souls which exist in those who do not yet know of the other place.

God predetermined our future after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden. God condemned us to experiance the knowledge of good and evil. The way we live our lives today is a punishment set in motion by God.

- Why do we have to explain our deeds to God/Jesus before a white throne? The deeds we have done are the deeds God condemned us to experiance.

If the bible is telling the truth about our future (through prophesy), That means our lives and our future is predetermined by God already.
How can God condemn us if our fate is predetermined by Him? There is no way we can change what God has decided.

If we could change anything by our free will, the prophecies in the Bible would be false.
But according to prophesy and God/Bible, God knows what we will do with our free will. So our future is pretty much predetermined. We are already condemned to fail, each one of us. Because non of us knows the moral code, and no one knows how to learn it or where to find it. We cannot live by something we have no knowledge of.
So how can we be condemned for not knowing? We are condemned to experiance good and evil, we are condemned to live this way of life. We are living it just the way we are condemned too by God. So in principal we are living our lives just as we are told to, by God. And in the future God wants to punish us for experiencing what he condemned us to? It dosent make sense. If we are to experiance good and evil, some one must also be evil. Than evil can not be a sin.
If every person on earth were good people, we should be punished for not fulfilling our duties set by God, to experiance good and evil. Because no one wanted to do evil things. We would be breaking a new command given by God.

We have a duty to experiance good and evil, and to do good and evil. We can not be condemned for something we are commanded to experiance. We have no choice. Unless we want to be punished again for not doing as we are told. This duty we have to inflict evil upon others is our punishment, we have no choice. It is also predetermined by God who will do evil. If not; than the bible is false.

Why do some people feel forced or exited to do evil things?

reply to post by spy66


Good questions. But, it was predetermined way before Adam and eve. Father has this picture in heaven which shows what's going to happen from beginning to end.

Man has the appearance of free will. If he had total free will, the angels wouldn't be working so hard in the unseen, among many other things.

Also, father did create some to be evil or do bad for the greater good. I create good and I create evil says the Lord.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by spy66

 

Good questions. But, it was predetermined way before Adam and eve. Father has this picture in heaven which shows what's going to happen from beginning to end.

That is the way i understand it to. When God created the light, the beginning. Everything was determined to play out as planned.

Our existence is like a seed growing into what it is supposed to be. And there is nothing we can do about it.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by spy66

 

Good questions. But, it was predetermined way before Adam and eve. Father has this picture in heaven which shows what's going to happen from beginning to end.

Man has the appearance of free will. If he had total free will, the angels wouldn't be working so hard in the unseen, among many other things.

Also, father did create some to be evil or do bad for the greater good. I create good and I create evil says the Lord.

edit on 11-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

That is a lot of assumptions...

do you attribute everything to angels and demons?

reply to post by Akragon


Angels do more than just pass messages. Father gives the order, but you can be sure angels carry them out. Not assumptions, I can speak in the absolute.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon

 

Angels do more than just pass messages. Father gives the order, but you can be sure angels carry them out. Not assumptions, I can speak in the absolute.

The absolute, as in the unquestionable...

Perhaps you might back your claims... i know of one absolute, and angels are not it...

reply to post by Akragon


How can I backup things in which man is not privy to see. I ask no one to believe what I write, but if you desire with a pure heart Father will reveal these things.

The angels doing work can be found in Enoch.

The picture in heaven can be found in Abrahams vision of heaven.

This is a start, the rest you will need to go to Father on.

As always, there is what you believe and there is what is.

I can speak in the absolutes about what is, on the individual level no I can't. That is for Father only.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon

 

How can I backup things in which man is not privy to see. I ask no one to believe what I write, but if you desire with a pure heart Father will reveal these things.

The angels doing work can be found in Enoch.

The picture in heaven can be found in Abrahams vision of heaven.

This is a start, the rest you will need to go to Father on.

As always, there is what you believe and there is what is.

I can speak in the absolutes about what is, on the individual level no I can't. That is for Father only.

edit on 11-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

If man is not privy to see such things, how can you know of these things as factual.... from a book written millenia ago?

Many cultures spoke of dragons, but do you believe they once existed as well? Perhaps they were dinosaurs that lived with us?

Regardless there is no factual proof of angels or demons, and saying that they are responsible for anything is nothing but an assumption... based on a book

reply to post by Akragon


My information doesn't come from a book. I have to reference it when speaking because this is what you are given.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon

 

My information doesn't come from a book. I have to reference it when speaking because this is what you are given.

Why do you reference a litteral "hell" as a place of eternal fire and torment when such a place doesn't exist in biblical terms?

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon

 

My information doesn't come from a book. I have to reference it when speaking because this is what you are given.

Why do you reference a litteral "hell" as a place of eternal fire and torment when such a place doesn't exist in biblical terms?

Eternal torment for the beast and the false prophet. Not for man. That was never said by me.

How can you reference the bible on this but don't believe in angels or demons, even when Jesus clearly expelled many in his time.

reply to post by Akragon


If man could see these things, there would be no point for him to be here. Man has to learn and prove his love to God while on Earth.