Where Did Consciousness Come From?

Originally posted by DAZ21
Magic and science are two sides of the same coin. Magic is just science of the unknown.

The question is, where did consciousness come from?

Was it a magical act of God, a miracle, that brought it about? Or was it a gift given through an advanced technology, not of our own?

Either way i refuse to believe that evolution gave us consciousness. Do animals have one? Do they need it to survive? If not then why, what is the purpose of ours?

Where do you believe our consciousness came from and what is the purpose of one?

To understand where it came from, we have to examine what consciousness IS.

What is it? Well to be sterile - technically consciousness consists of a combination of senses, electrical codes, chemical emotions. And I believe it is shaped by environment and events and as mentioned, a coding - genetical hard-wired reactions to certain factors.Our consciousness is like the operator watching out of a window and refering to a machine inside (subconscious) and basing the next reactions on available data. Our consciousness is shaped by things we've not yet experienced. That is why (for example) people who appreciate art tend to have a more 'open mind' - since they have plunged themselves into a world of abstraction and uniqueness everyday, whereas a mill worker will more likely be a more linear, efficient type of consciousness.

So - a Baby's consciousness will be less aware of pain and will be hardwired to recognise the mother and fathers smell. But since it has no experience of life, it has limited consciousness and has to adapt with age.

But, when we expand and go less clinical, this is where things get confusing. Art, music, events all shape us - and although we all share the same 'mechanics' - we all have different experiences of our individual lives, thus consciousness can only be defined by agreed and mutual concepts.

The origins I believe are simply an evolution of experiences, forms, reactions to events and environments from a base form, for possibly millenia. The consciousness of a human baby would be a far more complicated process than the consciousness of a tadpole for example. Because humans in many ways are (hopefully) more developed than crude members of the surrounding animal kingdom.

I hope my thoughts make sense?

reply to post by NorEaster


every thing is explained in this holy book there's no need for anything else,why do you hate what you don't understand. science is just catching up to the least information of the bible.

reply to post by maryhinge

god has been talked about an everyone is right BUT what we experince with the little voice in our head is god.us we got it when god stopped talking to us i.e. burning bush. god still talks to us just in a diff way

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Astyanax
Before asking yourself where consciousness comes from, try proving that it even exists. To do that, you will have to define what consciousness is.

Are you suggesting the human being is a mere "thing" without the distinct qualia of personal experience?

I am not sure what you mean by ‘qualia of personal experience’ because qualia are personal experiences. I am merely asking for an unambiguous definition of consciousness, one that does not use terms that require further definition or qualification. Can you supply one?

*

reply to post by mr-lizard

What is it? Well to be sterile - technically consciousness consists of a combination of senses, electrical codes, chemical emotions. And I believe it is shaped by environment and events and as mentioned, a coding - genetical hard-wired reactions to certain factors. Our consciousness is like the operator watching out of a window and referring to a machine inside (subconscious) and basing the next reactions on available data.

Your first sentence is not a definition of consciousness but a list of its inputs. It is uncontroversial that the inputs to consciousness are shaped by the environment and events in it. It is also not controversial to state that the form in which these inputs are presented to consciousness – that is, perceived – is related to our physical morphology and hence to our genes.

But this is only to speak of inputs. What is consciousness itself, the thing that receives these inputs (which NewAgeMan likes to call qualia)? What, exactly, is the operator looking out of the window? What is aware of looking out of a window?

What is the operator?

The question is not so easily answered.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Everything was made by consciousness for consciousness.

Materialist monism (matter alone is primary and consciousness just an epiphenomenon of matter) is dead in the water.

The implications of this however, in terms of the true nature of the choosing self, is astounding.

Where it came from however, is hard to say. I think it came from an impetus or catalyst, to love, and thus emerged from the vesica pisces of sacred geometry, as the desire of God, to know himself.

"I was with you from before the very foundation of the world."

To find consciousness, we must look to the whole and thus to the source. It is not simply an epiphenomenon of matter. There must be a choosing self. Matter alone cannot collapse a probability wave into an actuality.

consciousness is currently evoling in primates...

theres documented cases where monleys engage in stealth, cheating, hiding stuff from others in the group... they are learning the "I " is seperate from group...and that is the beginning stages of being self-aware, possessive, ego driven and all the stuff identified with consciousness...

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by NorEaster

 

every thing is explained in this holy book there's no need for anything else,why do you hate what you don't understand. science is just catching up to the least information of the bible.

A technical overview of consciousness isn't featured in that book. It just plain isn't. Good luck finding anything that makes any real sense with what we've already established as reality. I guess you can join the people who deny the existence of reality (basically a claim that existence doesn't exist), but that's just walking off on the challenge. And that's the point of my comment. You won't take the time or effort to actually understand what specifically allows you awareness and conscious thought.

The Bible is a philosophy book. Period. It's a really good philosophy book, but that's all it is. The Yellow Pages is a really good phone book, but being a good phone book doesn't make it a dictionary, or any other kind of book. Like the Bible, the Yellow Pages phone book is what it is.

And while I feel that it's stupid to demand the Bible to be anything other than what it is, I don't hate that you do that. I also understand a hell of a lot about the Bible. A lot more than you likely suspect.

And science isn't catching up with anything other than its own moment of crisis, but that doesn't have anything at all to do with a poorly sourced philosophy book.

reply to post by NorEaster


I will show you amongst many things the mathematics,physics.and even hidden messages. impossible statistics, in this Holy book that many people dont know and that can only conclude that this book was inspired by a divine GOD. and from outside out time domain. in an up coming thread of mine.as i dot have much time to spend behind a PC

Theres an idea brought forth by Terence Mckenna who coined the term "psychedelic" drugs. He believes that while the common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees seperated, the ones that started to become human-like, possibly may have started to eat mushrooms and caused our brains to change and expand. Created the consciousness that we have now and our ability to think more abstractly.

reply to post by Polarize

All the great movements of human history have come about, for the most part, through profound, transformative shifts in consciousness, whether by some drug, fasting, contemplation, prayer, whatever ie: Jesus ministry began after fasting in the desert for 40 days and nights. Ancient Egypt seemed to be involved with a science of alchemy of consciousness through the use of archetypes for the transmigration of the soul framed by sacred geometry, same with the Freemasons and their ritual method of teaching. It's all about transformation of human consciousness, moving us, and causing us to evolve, or in the case of present day or in the dark ages, devolve as the case may be.

Therefore it's safe to say I think that profound drug induced mystical experiences are indeed part of our cosmogenesis, McKenna's probably right, and he was a trained anthropologist if I'm not mistaken. It's as good a theory as any. He also thought that "tribe" was formed more cohesively, as a result of drug induced exstatic orgies resulting in not knowing for certain who's child belonged to whom, which is funny and no, not advocating for orgies today, where the family unit was supposed to serve as the rock of a civil society.

I think we need more Shamens today, to chart the course, because there's something else, something potentially wonderful awaiting us all on the other side of the dissolution of the status quo, which can no longer nourish us ie: the mainstream media, lady Gaga, CNN, the race for POTUS, etc., which is all just garbage, and we all know it. We are like the prodigal son who found himself eating with the pigs stuff that simply does not and cannot nourish the soul.

Therefore we need to break out, and chart a new course, a return path, and a path to novelty by any means that is not harmful.

What did McKenna say, something like - Dance the dance that hasn't been danced yet, do something, anything, just create create and create. The status quo, as they would feed it to us, doesn't nourish us any more, it's like trying to suck the marrow from the long dead bones of a dead civilization, what's with that? It makes no sense, it's absurd!

concussions comes from your brain, you loose it when you die. consciousness means you are self aware. you think therefore you are.

ill reply to the rest of the questions because im bored.

your self awareness is the product of survival of the fittest, the smart ones beat death and managed to survive. so they reproduce.

the only purpose i can think of is for reproduction and survival.

of course animals have consciousness some more than others, but animals act more on instinct. sometimes we act on instinct, some may argue there may be no such thing as free will. but that's another topic.

reply to post by vjr1113


It is wise to at least consider the possibility, that the human brain is, aside from being a highly complex classical computing and recording machine, a quantum holographic transmission and recieving device, whereby ALL information is already stored within the Zero Point Field or the Akashic Field, which makes of individual human consciousness, like a dot within the domain of an infinite sphere. In this case, no, it does not neccessarily stop at the point of death of one "node". It's worth considering at least, as a possibility. Do not presume to know already (how arrogant).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


look whos presuming lol

i got my stuff from proven science. im not just spewing out words. you die, your brain dies. how are you suppose to think if your brain isn't working?

reply to post by vjr1113

I was just curious if you were capable of considering another possibility than the materialist monist one, that's all.

P.S. I am not my brain, I'm not an "it", not just a machine, but part of a larger process.

You not only don't understand, or won't, you can't, and that's problematic.

Consciousness is a property of self-awareness. It is a tool of self-realization. It is the self that possesses consciousness, and the self can be both conscious and unconscious.

From the biological view, consciousness is the result of information processing within the brain that produces the right conditions for self-awareness and self-realization to be apparent to the self.

Personally, I find the self a far more important ideology then the consciousness it possesses. It is the self that is aware, and it is the self that has consciousness.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


nope i have no reason to believe in the supernatural or unknown.

im a little open to mysticism but i tread carefully.

yes you are special and know more than the rest of the monkeys

reply to post by vjr1113

No, well first I'm not a monkey and neither are you - I've just done more research, that's all, and yours' is not the only possibility which is entirely congruent with science. You presume to already know something, as a fact, but it isn't neccessaily the last word. In fact, there is more evidence to show that we live in an instantaneous, transluminal, non-localized, holographic, interdependant universe, in which case the very notion of your consciousness, as contained in and constrained by, the grey matter inside your scull, as a representation of the totality of "you" as a mere "thing" is, by some standards, an utterly absurd proposition.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vjr1113

 

No, well first I'm not a monkey and neither are you - I've just done more research, that's all, and yours' is not the only possibility which is entirely congruent with science. You presume to already know something, as a fact, but it isn't neccessaily the last word. In fact, there is more evidence to show that we live in an instantaneous, transluminal, non-localized, holographic, interdependant universe, in which case the very notion of your consciousness, as contained in and constrained by, the grey matter inside your scull, as a representation of the totality of "you" as a mere "thing" is, by some standards, is an utterly absurd proposition.

edit on 28-9-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

you're right we do exist on one of many unknown levels. i know i dont have the final word, no one does but i believe only what is proven so far. if something is unknown i dont jump to conclusions. for example how could we know that we are conscious in other levels of existence? i dont know. no one has proven it scientifically that i know of. i only know of this existence.

my materialistic view point is based on what we can measure and know. you seem to put your trust in the unknown, and forgive me if i misunderstand you. so my point was that i have never known of any other life than this one and that ppl stop thinking when they die. i dont need to add something supernatural to it, i wish i could but i would only be fooling myself.

ps and yes we are monkeys :p

Originally posted by vjr1113
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

look whos presuming lol

i got my stuff from proven science. im not just spewing out words. you die, your brain dies. how are you suppose to think if your brain isn't working?

Consciousness is a property of brain function. The brain is producing the consciousness that we use which is relevant to our self-awareness. When certain brain function is damaged or inhibited consciousness can be lost. This doesn't mean that the self ceases to exist mind you; rather it's now rendered unaware of information.

What you are implying is that consciousness does not survive death because it's a product of brain-function. Where this does seem to be challenged is in Near-Death expeirence cases, for example Pam Reynolds where during zero-brain function (she was drained of all her blood to allow doctors to operate on an anerism) had a third-person perspective of the surgery where she observed the procedure and was able to provide details including conversations at a time when zero-brain function was present.



There is a website that covers NDE related phenomena in depth. www.near-death.com...

The second area is cases of reincarnation, such as this case where a boy remembered his past life and was followed by a skeptical psychologist how later confirmed all the details from the boys previous life as being real.



Finally, there is out-of-body research that further demonstrates that consciousness can exist when the body is asleep. I think one of the top institutes studying it bar none is the Monroe Institute and Robert A. Monroe's trilogy on his experiences with it.

Why this matters to me is of these three phenomena I have experience with past-life memory from my childhood similar to what is covered in the above video on reincarnation. I have had over 4,000 out-of-body experiences. I have had precognitive dreams where I have seen literal future events from my first-person perspective and lucid dreams which also have turned out to be precognitive in nature.

All of this presents in my opinion a different model of reality then what reductionism offers. I existed before this life, I know as fact based on having the experience. I have been out-of-body where I have verified to myself that the data is relative to physical reality, perceiving information without my physical senses having it match up to real physical data. All very fascinating and has certainly raised my eye-brow to a much larger system of reality then just a physically observed model.

There is more.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


yea i knew the whole NDE thing was coming, it was inevitable.

yes you can loose consciousness like when you pass out but you are not dead, you are sleeping.

i dont buy NDEs. there are many reasonable answers to those experiences that i would accept before i believe that something supernatural happened, including lying.