Should The U.S. Abolish the Death Penalty ?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by CynicalDrivel

 

Do as you see fit.

Would just like to say that I am enjoying your contributions to what is a refreshingly civil discussion on a very emotive subject.

If I was ever to play Devils Advocate and attempt to support capital punishment then resorting to quoting scripture etc would have to be the last act of desperation.

1. Quoting scripture is only good for showing where MY reasoning comes from, IF my reasoning comes from the Bible.
2. To REFUTE a Biblical Belief, if it can be done WITHIN the same boundaries, then DO SO.
3. To use the Bible as the SOLE AUTHORITY, you've got to PROVE the sole authority. I contest that this can be reasonably done, but to do so is several books about as thick as the Bible, chocked full of "evidence". Pretty darned hard to do in a situation like this.

Death penalty is FINE just the way it is! Instead of people boo-hooing over an "innocent" person getting executed, how about this: when INNOCENT people stop getting murdered by sociopathic scum, then maybe there will be be no dirtbags to execute anyway!
When men, women and children keep getting slain by these bottomfeeders, I have no problem hearing about someone riding the lightning. And if we get the "wrong guy" every now and then, then so be it (IMO).
One example, a Connecticut man raped, beat, murdered, and chooped up a 15 year old girl and waived extradition back to CT (Which has the death penalty) because he was caught in Rhode Island (which has no death penalty). So now this scumbag gets to serve the rest of his life in jail rather than getting fried like he should. And contrary to belief of let him rot in his cell forever....he loves the company he keeps. the meals, the recreation and the "soda" during his visits. If RI had the death penalty, I would be the one jamming the needle into this animals arm!!!!

reply to post by elevatedone


The state botches up too many things to be left with the ablitly to take someones life. Not to mention they can just decide to kill people by placing the death penalty to whatever crimes it deems appropriate.

to go hand in hand with abolishing the death penalty. We need to stop sending people to jail for drug usuage and other stupid things. Most people who go to jail come out as college graduates of criminal activity.

Only those who are convicted of heinous crimes should be sent there for life. murder and such. maybe rape and pedos. as well.

that would reduce the inmate population.

for petty crimes like drugs fines would be something i am okay with.

this won't happen as prisons are a business and they crank out the dough. reducing inmates would cut into profits.

Originally posted by Six6Six
If you whole reason for supporting the death penalty is because of possible reoffending then that can be solved by Permanent Imprisonment for actual Life.

It quite simple. You put someone away and NEVER let them out.

We dont know what is round the corner, there may be a scientific breakthrough that can deal with people who commit offenses and guarantee they never do that again.

Maybe one day we will inhabit another planet that can be used as a prison planet for the worst offenders instead of Death. Who know but we can solve your problem easily. Without more KILLING

Permanent imprisonment would only serve to be a burden upon an innocent society where we toil daily to pay the taxes that house, feed and care for the otherwise condemned. Additionally, such a solution would eventually result in an overcrowding of the penal system by people that could have otherwise been executed, thereby freeing resources for the imprisonment of other criminals whos crimes are not serious enough to warrant the death penalty.

Originally posted by elevatedone
reply to post by roughycannon

 

If you're guilty and dead then you're not costing the tax payers millions of dollars to keep you clothed and fed.

Ah, but that by-passes the entire point of this thread. Not everyone executed is really guilty, and it's pretty hard to rescind a death sentence.

Let's start by accusing you for a crime worthy of the death penalty, for whatever miscellaneous circumstances; say you look like a suspect or are being lied about by a jilted lover.

You're sitting in the chair.

They're dabbing a briny sponge over your head.

Any last words?

You scream "I didn't do it! For God's Sake I'M INNOCENT!"

ZAP!

Do you feel better now that there's one less person being clothed and fed, caught inside a system that doesn't like to let people go, regardless of whether they are innocent or not?

Bottom line is, killing someone who kills another makes the killer just as bad. Murder is still Murder no matter what. Besides, isn't the death penalty painless? You technically serve a shorter term dont you?

Originally posted by Se7enex
Bottom line is, killing someone who kills another makes the killer just as bad. Murder is still Murder no matter what. Besides, isn't the death penalty painless? You technically serve a shorter term dont you?

edit on 22-9-2011 by Se7enex because: (no reason given)

/facepalm

I wouldn't say it's anyone right to determine another person's right to live or not, unless it can be transparently determined that the individual was and will never be in full control of their ability to reason.

I'm suggesting that it's OK to execute the criminally insane. They are the only true offenders that cannot be rehabilitated, and thus will continue to either murder without conscience or control, or cost the system unending amounts of money.

I personally do not understand why the insane are given immunity from execution. Would not common sense deem them a perfect fit for execution? They (the insane) are beyond help, whereas we are currently executing intelligent, remorseful, SANE people, who could spend their lives trying to make up for their mistake.

On the other hand, the insane will never EVER make up for a murder, as they do not have the capacity for it.

reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss


So its about money? The insane aren't ALWAYS insane. It's true once you open that door it's infinitely more difficult to close but i've seen it happen before. And before long people that get on conspiracy sites and communicate and express their feelings will be deemed insane too. The diagnoses for anything is becoming easier and easier to fit. I don't see how putting someone mentally unstable into a safe location will harm sane people.

Originally posted by Se7enex
reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss

 

So its about money? The insane aren't ALWAYS insane. It's true once you open that door it's infinitely more difficult to close but i've seen it happen before. And before long people that get on conspiracy sites and communicate and express their feelings will be deemed insane too. The diagnoses for anything is becoming easier and easier to fit. I don't see how putting someone mentally unstable into a safe location will harm sane people.

edit on 22-9-2011 by Se7enex because: extra

Obviously there are pretty clear differences between mentally unstable and insane.

Example; anyone deemed unfit to stand trial = insane.

I think you would see a sharp drop in people suddenly too "crazy" to defend themselves in court, if they knew they would be getting the chair.

I don't think we should abolish it.

I DO think there has to be some minimal standards applied when using it, so as not to execute someone innocent.

Video camera footage of the suspect killing someone, or DNA evidence recovered from the body of the deceased. Not shaky testimony of some shady witness.

I guess tighten up the standards of evidence when using the death penalty, is what I am trying to say.

The justice system in the US is far from perfect, but I do want to keep the death penalty for the most heinous crimes. Instead of throwing it off the table completely, the cases that have the death penalty as an option need to be reworked to meet higher standards.

I do find it funny that people who support the death penalty are called barbaric, neanderthals, blood thirsty and whatever. I'm sure life in prison, caged in a 5x8 cell 23 hours a day, tormented by guards and other inmates, is so much more civilized.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


In a secular nation like the USA religious doctrine should have minimal influence at most on law making.
As such religious scripture of any kind can not really be offered as reasoning for a nations or states policy on capital punishment.

Obviously individuals should be free to believe what they want, without imposing their beliefs and values on those of a different viewpoint or belief.

I have no desire to derail this thread and turn it into a discussion on the validity or accuracy of The Bible or any other religious or holy book.
I've said my piece now I'll let it lie.

reply to post by elevatedone


Yes it should be abolished. Killing someone for any reason at all is sick and disgusting. Even if a person has killed thousands of people... it is still wrong to kill them. Take the osama bin laden case for example, quick and dirty assasination. This kind of behavious is literally rather childish... it makes the US just as bad as the so called "terrorists".

Retribution is not "right".

Yes there is the problem of taxes being wasted and prisons being full up... but the point is, the legal system is so WRONG, that it encourages people to break rules.

Too many rules in place, people will break them.
No rules, nobody breaks them.

Of course it would be stupid to make killing somebody legal... but the matter of fact is, most crimes where somebody dies... IT IS BECAUSE OF RULES PUT IN PLACE!

Drugs, Police brutality, Taxes.

Without stupid rules making drugs illegal, cops above the law, taxes for the poor (being a few examples), less people would have a need to kill.

No nation needs a death penalty.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, I think we should execute more people. We, the people, are paying for housing, food, medical care, supervision and even cable TV for CRIMINALS. They don't have to do squat except enjoy their stay in prison on OUR DIME.

It's high time the entire system was overhauled or the government should start paying for ALL OF US to live free and clear! I'm tired of paying for those who cannot seem to live by society's rules.....

reply to post by elevatedone

Should The U.S. Abolish the Death Penalty ?

Yes.

Not because there aren't people so evil that really do deserve that ending... but because our system is as imperfect as those who contrived it and because it takes a high ground that humanity desperately needs to finally evolve beyond where it is at.

Originally posted by elevatedone
Why sentence someone to death and leave them in prison for years and years. I get the appeals process and all that, but I mean in the end, just do it and get it over with.

I would be 100% behind the death penalty but for one little problem. Innocent people will be convicted and put to death.

One innocent life taken in this manner would be a travesty. If we could know with complete certainty everyone we were executing was guilty, i would give it my approval, but alas we cannot.

Originally posted by LrBc1275
Death penalty is FINE just the way it is! Instead of people boo-hooing over an "innocent" person getting executed, how about this: when INNOCENT people stop getting murdered by sociopathic scum, then maybe there will be be no dirtbags to execute anyway!

Easy for you to say. Just wait until a loved one of yours is convicted and murdered on death row for a crime they did not commit.

No way you would sit back in your comfy chair and say it was right.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by elevatedone

 

My thoughts? Eye-Witness testimony is barely 25% accurate, and hundreds of people on death row have been exonerated by DNA evidence over the past 15 years or so.

We are not civilized or educated enough to execute people. This isn't the middle ages.

I always believed that the 'Memphis Three' were innocent, because there didn't seem to be a shred of evidence to convict them. Damien Echols received a death sentence and spent 18 years on death row. I think they are now free, but there will always be people that believe they are guilty. Based on what, I don't know.

I have read other cases where I knew they were absolutely guilty and were acquitted. I think one of the most interesting cases is Jeffrey McDonald, a doctor in the Army that brutally killed his own family.He's still in prison where he should be. I always look at the evidence, but some juries don't!

en.wikipedia.org...

I also believe Lizzie Borden was innocent.

She would have had only 15 minutes to kill her father and step-mother and clean up the bloody mess on herself, while the maid was in the other room. A doctor did examine her dress for blood spots, but found none.

Originally posted by LrBc1275
Death penalty is FINE just the way it is! Instead of people boo-hooing over an "innocent" person getting executed, how about this: when INNOCENT people stop getting murdered by sociopathic scum, then maybe there will be be no dirtbags to execute anyway!
When men, women and children keep getting slain by these bottomfeeders, I have no problem hearing about someone riding the lightning. And if we get the "wrong guy" every now and then, then so be it (IMO).
One example, a Connecticut man raped, beat, murdered, and chooped up a 15 year old girl and waived extradition back to CT (Which has the death penalty) because he was caught in Rhode Island (which has no death penalty). So now this scumbag gets to serve the rest of his life in jail rather than getting fried like he should. And contrary to belief of let him rot in his cell forever....he loves the company he keeps. the meals, the recreation and the "soda" during his visits. If RI had the death penalty, I would be the one jamming the needle into this animals arm!!!!

The wrong guy! What if it was you?

Another case right now is the 'Honey Moon' Killer. Killed his wife in Australia scuba diving. He turned her air off and gave her a bear hug. Australia didn't want to extradite him to the US, because they don't believe in the death penalty. This case is upsetting to me! I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

no they should ramp it up

if you murder someone there is no way to "repay society"

And if you want to call it "cruel and unusual"

try being a member of the murdered persons family after that.

You ban it fools are missing the point - capital punishment is not just a punishment its a deterrent against future crimes.

How many time have I heard "I'm not afraid of jail" vs how many times will I ever hear "I'm not afraid of the electric chair"

The death penalty should be so merciless and cruel that not even one more person commits murder ever again out of pure fear alone.

I'm thinking chipper shredder would do the job - and it should be televised on channel 2 so everyone can watch.