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Should openly gay men shower with straight men in the army?

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posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 




Homosexuals should not be serving in the military imo.


What does this have to do with anything?
Did he ask this question?

I am inclined to ask why though.
Have you served in the military? Have you been forced to live in field conditions? Obviously not, or you would not have to ask.


Yes, I served in the Navy, and I have been in field conditions, and your post makes you sound like one of those homophobes who don't think a homosexual man should afforded the same right as you to serve his country.




posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by GmoS719
 


I have to disagree with you on one thing, friend, homosexuals serving in the military should have the same right to express their sexuality as any straight member, whether they be sailor, soldier, marine or airman. Other service members should be adult enough to accept their differences.

IDIC...Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


You call yourself Son of Liberty, but you want to deny a segment of our population the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Truly epic fail.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I can see a pattern emerging here......your a christian too you say...lol

Dude...i know gay men that would eat you alive if you tried to punch them, so enough with the big man behind the monitor talk eh


If a gay man looked at my or touched my butt id kindly reject their advances, thats enough...no need to break peoples jaws
A simple "Im not gay, would you refrain from groping me" would be adequate.

Im going to ask mods to shut this thread....clearly this has become a hate thread..its pathetic


If anyone puts their hands on me without my permission it is assault and i will respond accordingly. I already had one gay fellow put his hand on my thigh one day when i was eating lunch in college and i did break his jaw. A campus cop showed up and I explained to her what had happened and she put cuffs on him and carted him down to the station and i filed charges for sexual assault. You have no idea what i look like or what i'm capable of and any straight american man would respond in like manner.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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I've never been in the army nor would I ever want to join the army, but I don't see why gay people should have to join separate showers. Gay students don't have separate showers in high school. Gay athletes don't have separate showers in their locker room. Gay gym members don't have separate showers in the gym (at least not to my knowledge, and if they did it's not the norm).

So, why can't it just be like those things. Where they all shower together and if someone looks at them, they get over it. It's stupid that so many people have to resort to violence to solve their problems. And some people might say that that's justification that the showers should be separate, to prevent violence from occurring. But look deeper. If the person is going to resort to violence to stop another guy from looking at them, there is some deep seated anger in that person. And it's not fair that showers should be segregated because someone has anger issues. That would be like saying we need to change the situation or Mr Hulk might get angry. Giving Mr Hulk the power to change the situation just reinforces the behavior.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





If anyone puts their hands on me without my permission it is assault and i will respond accordingly. I already had one gay fellow put his hand on my thigh one day when i was eating lunch in college and i did break his jaw. A campus cop showed up and I explained to her what had happened and she put cuffs on him and carted him down to the station and i filed charges for sexual assault. You have no idea what i look like or what i'm capable of and any straight american man would respond in like manner.


Very mature....


You sir are a pathetic loser, and will come a cropper one day. Your full of bs too, you broke someones jaw for touching your leg....theres not a court in the world that would say that was justifiable behavior! Keep dreaming.

Should i curb stamp every christian that touches me? Same logic dude



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by FoxfilesMulder
 


I don't think the military budget could afford to have
separate showers for everyone.If they are in the military
they should be able to control themselves.No one
should have to worry about dropping their bar of soap
and bending over to pick it up.That kind of behavior
I would expect from a teenage boy.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by SaturnFX
 

Yep, too complicated. That is why homosexuals should not serve. It isn't my problem though. I know how we dealt with it in my day.


Then I truly feel sorry for you, I served for 12 years probably crossing over when you served and almost all of the sailors I served with had enough maturity and understanding to not give a crap about others sexuality, they were more concerned about serving with honor.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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My opinion = Sexuality is not my business. I'll worry about mine, you worry about yours'. And we can just be friends and avoid this personal issue because it's honestly not an interesting subject at all. Can't we cooperate and spend our time debating productive subjects?


Actually, I referred to this individual as a homophobe not in reference to his sexuality, but because he is cutting down and advocating violence for an entire segment of our population.

If he referred to African-Americans, Native Americans or any other self or society designated group in such a manner I would have referred to him as a racist.

Perhaps it is time to get rid of all of these artificial designations and remember that we are all part of the human race.

Then we can simply refer to those that advocate violence and hate as bigots, and hope that they receive the treatment they need to help them mature.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Homosexuals should not be serving in the military imo. Since they are, they should definitely have separate facilities from straights. If the opinion is "what difference does it make", then tell me why straight men cannot just go ahead and use the same showers as the straight women? Obviously, it does make a difference.


Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be. Just out of curiosity, why do you think homosexuals should not be allowed to serve? Speaking of men only, do you think they are all limp-wristed and effeminate, therefore incapable of kicking butt when called upon to do so? If so, you may want to go talk to some NFL players. Regarding women, why would you not want a homosexual woman to serve? Afraid she might kick your ass?

Regarding the shower thing...who cares? If someone is openly gay and you have to shower with him, and you are embarrassed, just turn away so he can't see how excited you are that he's checking you out...

Just so you understand me a little bit- a few short years ago I felt the same way as you. Then, my eyes opened in my late 30's. I had a run-in with our government, became aware of how absolutely wrong the conservative value system is, and how corrupt our government and media have become....I became far less conservative, and far more tolerant of the people around me and their right to try to get as much out of this life as possible.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by gamesmaster63
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


You call yourself Son of Liberty, but you want to deny a segment of our population the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Truly epic fail.


QFT

Second line.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by mademyself1984

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719


On the other hand, it isn't OK for women to be naked in the shower with men.
Men can not control them selves around naked women.
Straight men may have the same concern about homosexual men. Personally, if I even caught them peeking I would beat them within an inch of their life.



Why do straight men think the gays are going to be wanting their bodies?

This is highly presumptuous and in some cases I would go so far as to say wishful thinking.

Men cannot control themselves around naked women? I beg to differ with you. I have been on some sailing trips and we were all naked and after a time it doesn't even matter.
When naked bodies are plentiful, they're suddenly not all that mysterious. It is what we can't see that drives us mad and the reason SOME men can't control themselves around women is because a) they are immature and b) they don't see breasts and vagina's everyday. Not so with the gay guys.


I mean if you are already driving a Ferrari why scope out the Mustangs?




Yeah, but we aren't talking about sailing trips. We are talking about the military. So what next? We advocate that women and men share showers and latrines and cohabit together overseas because surely not all men wouldn't be able to control themselves? On my most recent deployment there were 2 men, who were never caught, that for 3 or 4 months physically and sexually assaulted other male soldiers in the early morning hours in the showers. One of the assaults included the assaulted soldier being threatened with the assaulter's military issued weapon, and concluding the assault, butt-stroked and left unconscious. But that's okay because NOT ALLLLL gays or bi-sexual men are like that? On the flip side of the coin, NOT ALLLL straight soldiers ridicule gay soldiers, and most certainly do not physically assault them. So, those things considered, it shouldn't be of concern when one is harassed or physically assaulted? Correct? I mean seriously...what do we advocate for next? Classes on how to practice a gay sexual relationship safely being taught to our children in 5th or 6th grade? Because it's only fair right?
edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)


Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this story. For 3 or 4 months multiple people who are trained to kill other people were being assaulted by 2 gay men and did nothing about it. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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First off, all the straight men need to check their egos at the door before they think every gay guy wants them.

Secondly, your only talking about openly gay, so what about those still in the closet?

Men need to get over it.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by DragonTattooz

Originally posted by mademyself1984

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719


On the other hand, it isn't OK for women to be naked in the shower with men.
Men can not control them selves around naked women.
Straight men may have the same concern about homosexual men. Personally, if I even caught them peeking I would beat them within an inch of their life.



Why do straight men think the gays are going to be wanting their bodies?

This is highly presumptuous and in some cases I would go so far as to say wishful thinking.

Men cannot control themselves around naked women? I beg to differ with you. I have been on some sailing trips and we were all naked and after a time it doesn't even matter.
When naked bodies are plentiful, they're suddenly not all that mysterious. It is what we can't see that drives us mad and the reason SOME men can't control themselves around women is because a) they are immature and b) they don't see breasts and vagina's everyday. Not so with the gay guys.


I mean if you are already driving a Ferrari why scope out the Mustangs?




Yeah, but we aren't talking about sailing trips. We are talking about the military. So what next? We advocate that women and men share showers and latrines and cohabit together overseas because surely not all men wouldn't be able to control themselves? On my most recent deployment there were 2 men, who were never caught, that for 3 or 4 months physically and sexually assaulted other male soldiers in the early morning hours in the showers. One of the assaults included the assaulted soldier being threatened with the assaulter's military issued weapon, and concluding the assault, butt-stroked and left unconscious. But that's okay because NOT ALLLLL gays or bi-sexual men are like that? On the flip side of the coin, NOT ALLLL straight soldiers ridicule gay soldiers, and most certainly do not physically assault them. So, those things considered, it shouldn't be of concern when one is harassed or physically assaulted? Correct? I mean seriously...what do we advocate for next? Classes on how to practice a gay sexual relationship safely being taught to our children in 5th or 6th grade? Because it's only fair right?
edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)


Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this story. For 3 or 4 months multiple people who are trained to kill other people were being assaulted by 2 gay men and did nothing about it. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:



You're calling BS because "multiple people who are trained to kill other people were being assaulted and couldn't do anything about it"? I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand. This was happening on Living Areas all over BIAP during the hours of 2, 3, 4 in the morning. People were in showers, naked, without weapons. Nevermind the fact the showers over there aren't exactly spacious. Not every service member is "trained to kill people". You would like to think that, but I can tell you, if I was assaulted by another service member, who actually was trained to kill people, or even if he wasn't, if he was just that much bigger and stronger than me, I'd have been screwed. Call BS all you want, it doesn't really matter to me if you believe me or not. But I was there while it was an issue, and I know for a fact it happened.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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The whole nudity issue really is rather childish.

I've got zero attraction to other guys, but I'm not going to be weirded out if a gay guy is showering next to me, or a naked woman. It's a shower.

People should try a nude beach sometime....then they'd see how nudity doesn't have to automatically equate with sexuality.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for us wearing clothes...but in cases where being nude makes more sense, (like bathing or swimming, or sunbathing), I just don't get why we've all made such a big deal about it.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Are you like 15 or so?

There has always been gays in the military since there were armies.

Having served for over 20 years in the Navy I believe I am a fairly good authority on that fact.

For one,if you are required to shower with a group at one time, there is just a unspoken protocol that you keep your eyes up toward the wall.

Yes, there may be an "accidental" glance but one sure wouldn't want his buddy's catching him doing so!

Anybody believing that gays serving in the military will create problems or even just asking such an ignorant question are in no doubt in my mind, HOMOPHOBIC!

I know many military both officers and enlisted ,men and women who after serving quietly and honorably retired and then came out of the closet and lived openly as a gay person.

I am friends with them and have known them all for over 20 years.

The military is not like prison.

You're not going to be somebody's b*****.

And using your juvenile logic.. what about those individuals who declare they are bi-sexual in their orientation?

In most of Europe the public bathrooms are uni-sex.

The toilet areas are actually closets that both men and women use and can lock themselves in for privacy.

The urinals for men are in the common area though.

I know this from personal experience!

The Dutch Navy is completely integrated and men and women sleep in the same areas and shower together!

And do notice I never told you my sexual orientation.

It is none of your business.

edit on 19-9-2011 by IamJustanAmerican because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-9-2011 by IamJustanAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 04:59 AM
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The only problem I had with this is "selective political correctness".

Where I live, Santa cant say Ho Ho Ho anymore because women may be offended and insulted by Santa having a hidden agenda and actually walking around calling women Hoe Hoe Hoe. And that's a true story!

So as I alluded to previously, if the governments have a conflict of interests within their own politically correct doctrine, then perhaps don't have one at all and prevent themselves from looking more ridiculous than they already do.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Redacted.
edit on 20-9-2011 by Hawkwind. because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Absolutely not!

Gay men should get scented bubble baths, with facials, manicures and massage.

Common guys, they always accuse us of making unrealistic demands by claiming our right to exist.
It's time to make some real unrealistic demands ... I mean what more can the homophobes say? Oh no those queers are making unrealistic demands again? Yawn.

Now's the time to get ahead!



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Only if openly strait men can shower with women in the Army
OP you are taking a little too much heat for a question that isnt being asked enough in the military
Personally I think Homosexuality is an abomination...No I am not a bible thumper
I am completely anonymous here on this forum. I dont care what anybody thinks of my opinions I do happen to think I am pretty contemporary though.
All of the sudden there is this rush to jump on the Politically Correct Band Wagon. Where is the backbone of America these days...I just dont get it.

OK so we are way beyond Gender Norming and its ok for gays to serve openly in the military.

Any Fathers out there with Daughters in the military? How about we let those daughters serve in open combat slots. How about Daughters in Combat slots during a world war.

How about me and your daughter in a fox hole all night long just me and her.

Its ok now for Guys to openly serve in the military...my foot
edit on 20-9-2011 by mikeybiznaz because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-9-2011 by mikeybiznaz because: this makes my blood boil...Im not a homophobe I just have a backbone


Qualification: USAF 1979-1983 US Army 1995 - 2003 Sgt E-5 sep.
edit on 20-9-2011 by mikeybiznaz because: (no reason given)




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