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Should openly gay men shower with straight men in the army?

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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by FoxfilesMulder

Firstly

I am not homophobic! ok?

Lets just clear that one up before someone tries it on.

I'm not going to write a long drawn out thread as I normally would try to do, because it simply doesn't need it here this time.

I have a serious question to pose to you and would love to hear the opinions and minds of all ATS members.


My question is:

Within the army, should openly gay men be allowed to openly shower with the rest of the straight men?

If your answer is yes, then what is the point of gender segregated showers at all?

Shouldn't it be like the movie "Starship troopers" where both genders shower harmoniously together?

Segregation is in place to protect a person or persons from such things as immorality, threatened privacy, sexuality and sexual perversion etc, yet all of these things are at risk of being corrupted through individual human behavior, whether acting consciously or subconsciously.

And lets be honest here, within every large group of people, there are always going to be a bad apple or three.

My personal non-homophobic opinion is that if you can be openly vocal about your sexual preference, then you can be openly humble and understanding about showering in a third segregated shower block, where its possible within the army's infrastructure.


Opinions?
Thoughts?
Constructive criticisms?
Donations?


No because it is sexual harrassment to have someone who is attracted to the same sex constantly stare at a straight man's body and flirt and ogle him in the shower room. It is also indecent, and i may be a christian but if a man ever grabs my butt i will have to disobey the Lord and break his jaw.




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I can see a pattern emerging here......your a christian too you say...lol

Dude...i know gay men that would eat you alive if you tried to punch them, so enough with the big man behind the monitor talk eh


If a gay man looked at my or touched my butt id kindly reject their advances, thats enough...no need to break peoples jaws
A simple "Im not gay, would you refrain from groping me" would be adequate.

Im going to ask mods to shut this thread....clearly this has become a hate thread..its pathetic



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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I am a homosexual 22 year old man and from personal experience those who scream the loudest are gay or bisexual. Hell even my sisters husband just hated me because I was gay, but a few weeks after they got married I got a text message asking to meet up to have intercourse. Who was it? My sisters husband, and I beat the # out of him. I have had several encounters of that kind, married or people in a relationship doing # like that. I don't believe in it. Especially if your married to my big sister!

on topic- I don't think men should have separate shower areas, because almost all straight men like to look to compare sizes...



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Well I'm leaving for Air Force basic in about a month and half so I guess I might have to deal with this issue. I'm not gay or bi but I really don't care who I shower with male or female. As long as no boundaries are crossed. I don't care if other guys look at me. God gave them eyes to do with as they see fit. I lost 40lbs and workout regularly I'd look at me too. Actually sometimes I do check myself out in the mirror. Does that make me gay? I think sometimes we take ourselves way to seriously.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by ScRuFFy63
 


Hahah!

I suppose you regularly say this to people also:

Do you believe in God? Trust me, you will when I take my shirt off...



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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I agree with you, there will always be the bad apple.

This reminds me of the South Park where Big gay Al is kicked out of scouts, but then the pedophile takes his place.
Thats exactly what they were saying.

a kind person is a kind person is a kind person.

Even though the military is a voluntary prison systems, the soldiers aren't convicted felons. They arent creating a dont drop the soap situation.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:33 AM
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Here's the deal. I have no problem with gays in the military. Some of my best friends in the military were in fact openly gay soldiers (prior to the revocation of the don't ask don't tell policy) who were chaptered out. due to their sexuality. My only quarrel, ever...with any of them, was simply this. The way things were before...don't ask don't tell, why do (and I'm not stereotyping or saying all gays are like this or anything of the such), but why do, at least in my experiences, gays, no matter where they are, even if it is an organization that allowed them to participate in, as long as they didn't parade around throwing their gayness in everyone's faces, feel the need to throw it in their faces? Straight people aren't constantly reminding everyone in their class, or everyone at work, or everyone in their platoon, that they are straight. I don't introduce myself to people and say, "Hi, I'm Tony, I'm straight." Showers, foxholes, trucks, tanks, etc. alike, would be just fine cohabited between gay, straight or bi soldiers if everybody just kept things to themselves instead of throwing it in everyone's face at every chance they get, simply because if we don't allow them to, somehow we are intolerable. I'm sorry, I am one of the most tolerant people anyone could ever meet....and that goes for numbers of things, politics, religion, race, gender, mental capacity, and....SEXUAL ORIENTATION. I don't care to know if you are gay. Just like I don't care to frolic around telling everyone I am straight. Frankly, it doesn't matter. Right? The reason it is an issue, is because you are Gay, and nobody cares. That is not intolerance. And in the circumstance in which it was in fact intolerance, it probably wouldn't have come up, had you kept THAT information to yourself, as it wouldn't really be relevant to anybody who wasn't gay, now would it? Openly gay serving members SHOULD NOT be allowed to shower, or LIVE with straight service members, for the same reasons I can't shower or live with females. It has nothing to do with you being gay. It has everything to do with the morale, safety, welfare, and professionalism of the military. Had you just served and kept your mouth shut (after all, all of those who were chaptered out under the don't ask don't tell policy, did in fact sign a contract, in which they agreed to abide by it's terms, it's rules, it's regulations, and it's laws) they would have, and could have, served as much time as they wished, showered with all of the men they could stand to shower with, and nobody would have ever known the difference. I don't know how people can be up in arms about something that they KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY DID WHICH WAS IN VIOLATION OF A VERY CLEAR AND PRECISE STANDARD AND REGULATION. Blows my mind why this is an issue.
edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719


On the other hand, it isn't OK for women to be naked in the shower with men.
Men can not control them selves around naked women.
Straight men may have the same concern about homosexual men. Personally, if I even caught them peeking I would beat them within an inch of their life.



Why do straight men think the gays are going to be wanting their bodies?

This is highly presumptuous and in some cases I would go so far as to say wishful thinking.

Men cannot control themselves around naked women? I beg to differ with you. I have been on some sailing trips and we were all naked and after a time it doesn't even matter.
When naked bodies are plentiful, they're suddenly not all that mysterious. It is what we can't see that drives us mad and the reason SOME men can't control themselves around women is because a) they are immature and b) they don't see breasts and vagina's everyday. Not so with the gay guys.


I mean if you are already driving a Ferrari why scope out the Mustangs?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by GmoS719


On the other hand, it isn't OK for women to be naked in the shower with men.
Men can not control them selves around naked women.
Straight men may have the same concern about homosexual men. Personally, if I even caught them peeking I would beat them within an inch of their life.



Why do straight men think the gays are going to be wanting their bodies?

This is highly presumptuous and in some cases I would go so far as to say wishful thinking.

Men cannot control themselves around naked women? I beg to differ with you. I have been on some sailing trips and we were all naked and after a time it doesn't even matter.
When naked bodies are plentiful, they're suddenly not all that mysterious. It is what we can't see that drives us mad and the reason SOME men can't control themselves around women is because a) they are immature and b) they don't see breasts and vagina's everyday. Not so with the gay guys.


I mean if you are already driving a Ferrari why scope out the Mustangs?




Yeah, but we aren't talking about sailing trips. We are talking about the military. So what next? We advocate that women and men share showers and latrines and cohabit together overseas because surely not all men wouldn't be able to control themselves? On my most recent deployment there were 2 men, who were never caught, that for 3 or 4 months physically and sexually assaulted other male soldiers in the early morning hours in the showers. One of the assaults included the assaulted soldier being threatened with the assaulter's military issued weapon, and concluding the assault, butt-stroked and left unconscious. But that's okay because NOT ALLLLL gays or bi-sexual men are like that? On the flip side of the coin, NOT ALLLL straight soldiers ridicule gay soldiers, and most certainly do not physically assault them. So, those things considered, it shouldn't be of concern when one is harassed or physically assaulted? Correct? I mean seriously...what do we advocate for next? Classes on how to practice a gay sexual relationship safely being taught to our children in 5th or 6th grade? Because it's only fair right?
edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/18/2011 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:10 AM
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Placing more temptation in the way does not bode well for the military. Let's take, for example, the idea of putting women cadets into the service academies. A closer examination of the women in the service academies shows that rapes have increased dramatically. In retrospect, was it a good idea to put the temptation there, and ruin some good men who could not control their hormones at that age, who might also have been great leaders later?

I think not.

The military is not your first choice for social experimentation. They have to keep their focus on the job of defending the country and Constitution.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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We're all humans, who cares if we shower together? As long as no sexual harassment is involved then there should be no problem. People are too closed-minded.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776

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I could tell you some stories about what has happened to some openly gay sailors. "Accidents" happen all the time. "




Oh really? And do you approve of that? Are the nasty homos killed or just given a good thrashing for being gay? Whatever your views are, are you endorsing hate crimes?
edit on 18-9-2011 by Nonvexatious because: To add post I was responding to and add another sentence to what I meant to say



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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Someone here said: men cannot control themselves with naked women.
Thats why they can't shower together. I think that when one man starts to close in on a woman, others will follow (not always thank God, but we're talking rape scenarios here).
But even if a gay man would try something like that when showering, what is the chance others will follow him? Very slim I think, more likely they will beat him to death.
So there's no comparing men/women showering together to men/gay men.
I think the gay guy will never start attacking a group of hetero's, he will for sure not even dare to peek.

By the way I'm a woman and hetero. In my experience gay women can be very aggressive more so than the gay men I know.

So, two facilities for the hetero's and two for the gays lol.
Who said we humans are on a higher plane than the animals? He should think again.(and start reading these forums)
Another reason I dont think women/men should shower together is this: we women are nasty. We don't want negative attention from men. At the same time we would feel rejected if - showering with a bunch of guys - nobody even peeked at our bodies. And then our hormones kick in and we will make them look with such a subtle sway of the hips.
Just to show them what they are not getting LOL

edit on 18-9-2011 by notsosunny because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by FoxfilesMulder
 


My opinion is this thread is stupid

What makes you think that just because a man is gay he is going to try it on with every other man he sees.

You are a troll to be honest. No other reason to post this other than to cause arguments 

 



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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NO gays in the military and definitely no straight men being forced to shower with sodomites.


All the sodomites and their sympathizers can talk to the hand, I'm not interested.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 
Liberals care only about their agenda. They don't care about the Constitution.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by FoxfilesMulder
 


I am a Navy vet, and my belief is that we should go the 'Starship Troopers' route and jsut have community showers. If people can't be adult and control their passions, then they shouldn't be in the military to begin with.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by GmoS719
 


I am a heterosexual male with a very strong sex drive, and I have no problem controlling myself when confronted by a nude woman. Unless you are in a sexual situation, then sex should not be an issue.



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