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posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by jrmcleod
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Do you really think there could ever be no sacrifices for the betterment of humanity? If i were a protester, 1 of the 1,000,000 outside the white house, I'd be calm and focused on the mission of trying for change. Yes there would be those who would cause trouble and yes there would be riot police, but if it was planned properly i.e. with lots of camera's around the place and interviews (not MSM lead) but protester led, the truth of it would come out no matter what the MSM reported...cos as we know it would be lies!

We need a plan...the government has one, why doesn't the people?


the people that see the truth..would understand, but those that refuse..would only think the conspirators dangerous..and foolish in how they handle things.

Any plan that would make sense..would be slow to bring to fruition..as it would take many people who are willing to fight these establishments, run for office,and change things from within.

You may say you would stay focused..but a million people can get out of hand quickly...and the soldiers carrying the weapons...could make it worse.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks a million people storming the white house would cause effective change...doesn't see the whole picture....and is enticing those who care into a very dangerous situation.
edit on 16-9-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)


Well this is precisely what i DON'T want to do. I don't want this to create havoc or entice danger, i want change...maybe your right! I just feel down-heartened, like most on here i guess that we are in this situation. If only people weren't materialistic...




posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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You forgot being dosed with the drug Apathy that conditions us not to care too much...



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 





We need a plan...the government has one, why doesn't the people?


Not everyone in the government is an enemy....and there are some in the government who diligently work to change what is not right.

Unfortunately, at times, those who try and expose truth,and change corruption, often end up with a bullet in their heads, or in a mysterious accident.

It would take a lot of very intelligent people..with a lot of inside info.. that would band together with a plan to slowly dismantle TPTB.

I would love to see it happen, and would support in any way i could..but a million people protesting, would not do the job, and would be disastrous in its outcome...only bringing about a more severe police state...

Is that what you want..even more control over the people.?



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by NebulaZero
 


When I was younger I often heard friends say the same thing as you about bringing a child into this world. Despite knowing how messed up the world is, I guess you could say I was selfish....Long before when I was quite young I had already decided how I would raise a child if I had the chance, I was so acutely aware of the world around me...too aware for one as young as I was when this started. I learned a lot from watching people, and also from examining how my parents handled raising my sisters and myself. I kept the things that were good, and threw out the things I determined were bad, never forgetting the way they made me feel as person.

I have one daughter and she is my life, my pride and joy. People call bringing a new life into the world a miracle, but the miracle I was granted in bringing her into the world goes far beyond that. Call it destiny, fate, God's plan for me or whatever you want, but if I had her earlier in life than I did, later in life than I did, or not had her at all, I would not be here now typing this up. I had a form of cancer that is not that common, has no noticeable symptoms until it's too late for much hope of recovery, and when it is found it is generally found in men over 40, I was a 29 year old female...not what one would consider at risk for it. When I was 6 months pregnant with her the very fact that I was carrying her caused the tumor that was growing in me silently to hemorrhage and make itself known. It was caught early, early enough that I was able to postpone treatment until after she was born. Over the next 2 years I had several recurrences and my Dr decided it was time to become more aggressive with it, which would have meant chemo had this happened earlier, but the very same year my daughter was born the FDA approved an immunotherapy treatment for this form of cancer that had a 75% effective rate. I have been cancer free now for 19 1/2 years


I am also very pleased to say the plans I made when I was so young for raising my child, as I dreamed of bringing a bright ray of sunshine into the world, were not some naive pipe dream. I taught her to care about people, to not let others (peer pressure) influence her opinion of others (as is often the case during those k - 12 years), to decide for herself based on her own interaction with a person whether they were someone to befriend or not. I taught her to value home and family, I made sure that she knew she could always talk to me no matter the issue. Instead of telling her to avoid people who might be considered "bad news" as most parents generally do, I instead taught her that if everyone turns their back on that person and avoids them, then what hope do they have (we're talking school ages). Since she and I had an excellent relationship maybe we could help others who might need some of what we had in their lives. I never forgot what life was like when I was that age and used that in dealing with her and her friends...and acquaintances she brought by that she wanted to reach out to. I also taught her to think for herself, not to let others influence her opinions.

I know that might sound a bit idealistic, but other than the extreme differences between how my interactions with my parents were vs her relationship with her parents, I have lived my life by those same values I taught her and I know that by just being who I am, I have touched many lives in a positive way, and had a life changing positive impact on substantial number of others. My daughter did the same with my guidance when she was younger and as an adult she's like a beacon of light to those she meets. I realize that on a global scale it's a very tiny light amidst the darkness, but when you touch someone's life in a positive way, they carry that with them and end up passing at least a little of that on to others.

Yup I'm a proud mom and she's a miracle



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by Pixiefyre
 


It goes back to personal responsibility. This nation has had too much handed to it in the past 60 years, and it has came to the point where the citizens demand more and more every year to be given.

When individuals go out and try to take success for themselves, that is when the nation prospers. Look at the Industrial Revolution. There was a mindset shared by all, and it was implemented. That anyone can have the American dream, if they have the desire and effort to obtain it.

The problem is, there is no more effort, and there is no more desire to take it back.

This is not as articulate and efficient as your post. But yes, I agree with you and I think we share the same mind set.


What you stated is one part of the overall machine of disillusioning the MASSES. The people who infiltrated the government and the controllers of finance, food, medicine, media, energy and religion know that propaganda has choked out the "American dream" and in it's place is fantasy and illusion to keep the masses at bay. However despite they're clever planning, I truly believe they underestimate the power of the human spirtit. Psychologically, they're influence of the masses has worked but there is a yearning inside all of us that is saying something isn't right. We at ATS aren't the only ones in the world that feel that something has gone wrong. It's just some either ignore that feeling or they are to far gone to feel anything at all. The desire is there we just have to fight hard as hell to reverse the so-called "social norm" to defeat it.
edit on 16-9-2011 by Quetzalcoatl12 because: My post was inside the quote. Using I pad



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 





Well this is precisely what i DON'T want to do. I don't want this to create havoc or entice danger, i want change...maybe your right! I just feel down-heartened, like most on here i guess that we are in this situation. If only people weren't materialistic...


Right now I wish I could give you a big motherly hug..because I know you are well meaning, and you sincerely care enough, that you want to do something, and not just stand by and watch.

Many people aren't materialistic.. but the body needs food,and warm shelter..to survive.

Please don't give up on finding an effective way to dismantle the greed,and control that are in the hands of a few.

I respect you for caring so much...please know that.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 


I too was once were you are.. All of the aforementioned atrocities and many more paralyzed me with fear and enraged me with anger!! Until I awoke to the Grand Illusion.. You are only a "Prisoner" if you allow yourself to be. Until you find peace within you will only see the chaos without. You were/are a part of the Sheeple up until just two years ago when you found this site. Today maybe ten, maybe a hundred will find this site and have their eyes slightly opened to a world they never knew, yet were a part of... Everyone has their own time or season. I'm sure two years ago someone posted a thread just like this, stating the same facts and/or opinions and yet the only difference is they were talking about YOU. Many people like to quote Gandhi and say "Be the change you would like to see in the world." Running off into the mountains would only change your life and that mountain.And just maybe that plays a small part of why the world is the way it is today because people who felt the same way you feel, packed their bags and ran off into the mountains. Believe me the Mountains are fine and have been for a very long time.. The world needs the Help!!! Global consciousness is sick, mentally ill in most parts.. A quick and truthful History lesson will teach anyone that.. The closest 3D model of consciousness is water and just as one drop of red dye can change an entire bottle of water, you too can change a great deal of this world by first changing yourself.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12
 


I agree. Everyone was is slowly starting to learn that there isnt something right and something must be done. And yes, they greatly underestimate our spirit. Mine especially.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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Right you are, but then...

WICH GOD ???



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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Wow, you describe exatly how it feels to me, these days i dont even make eye contact. Feel like some external viewer from the outside looking at how we are destroying ourselves. It makes you feel so hopeless.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Thank you Gabby2011, that's a very nice thing to say!!




posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12
 


Yes indeed we do. And I couldn't agree with you more about people expecting things to be handed to them. I spent about 12 years as an analytical lab tech, and one of my responsibilities was to train and work with college co-op's who got college credit for spending a few months working in the real world. My lab and job was probably one of the dirtiest most physically demanding tech jobs in that area of the company, which for me was no big deal, I worked 2 jobs through High School because my father became disabled and money was tight, I wanted to go to college but back then we didn't have the assistance available that we have now (I used to get frustrated at certain college fund ad's on TV, thinking "isn't my mind a terrible thing to waste too?) I moved out on my own when I was 18 pumping gas in the winter to support myself. Once I was stabilized in my new life I started taking night classes in chemistry and was making more than I ever dreamed possible by the time I was 25 considering my background. I worked dirty menial jobs to get there, but I got there. For the college co-ops I trained and worked with, some not all, found dealing with the elements of my lab was a struggle. For those it was a rude awaking to find out that working as a Chemist or Lab Technician was not necessarily sparkly clean and sitting a stool doing titrations all day for big bucks. One even told me that he wasn't going to college to end up doing that kind of dirty, physically demanding work. I not only had to teach them how to perform the preparation and analytical procedures for my lab, I had to teach them that you don't always just start out at the top looking down on all those beneath you, and despite the dirt and physical demands the job was no less important than any of the prettier environments. To my credit, even the toughest one I had to work with ended up telling me at the end of his last tour working there (they came 3 times during their schooling each time working in a different area) that of all the people he worked with I was his favorite and he would miss me


Outside of those experiences at that time we were living in a fairly affluent neighborhood, more affluent than we were and when my daughter got into HS I couldn't believe what the students were driving to school. All of them had better, newer and more expensive cars than I had and one of the girls my daughter knew actually was seriously pissed off when her parents bought her a new Cadillac for her 16th birth, she was expecting a Mercedes. I didn't raise my daughter that way so she was just flabbergasted to hear someone who was given something so expensive complain that it was not enough.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 


I second gabby2011's post...actually both of them. I don't know if you were even around yet during the Vietnam protests I was young but I do remember. It was bad, we're supposed to be able to peacefully assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances provided under the first amendment, but that's one First Amendment Right that goes out the window at times.

I have come to believe that many are afraid to speak up and criticize our government. Afraid of the repercussions, retaliation and so forth. Back in 2007 a number of people were arrested just for wearing anti bush t-shirts to an event where bush was giving a speech.

This isn't just an issue in the US either. At the G-20 summit in Toronto peaceful silent protesters were brutalized by the police, in one video clip from those protests the police line up opposite the protesters beating their batons against their riot shields and then every few minutes you see around 5 or so officers run towards the protesters, grab one, drag them back behind the police line and start beating them with their batons.

People are afraid because those entrusted to serve and protect us, also have the power to destroy our lives if we piss them off and some of them have no problem doing just that.

I know I alone can't make much of difference in the world, but aside from what I posted above about helping others, I also behind the security of my computer have found myself emboldened to speak out over things that looking at the big picture on issues instead of solely focusing on whats in my face (as I sometimes think many in government do) I can see areas where governmental proposed solutions to some issues (such as immigration reform) might address the in your face issues and calm the knee jerk reactions to the constant media focus on those putting the issues in your face, but is a slap in the face and outright betrayal of those quietly attempting to follow the legal process, afraid to draw any adverse attention to themselves that might end up negatively effecting their families, their entire future and life, after costing them thousands of dollars and waiting patiently sometimes in excess of 2 years to move out of limbo and start living a normal family life. (An example I am quite familiar with) but as I was saying behind the security of my computer I have found myself emboldened to speak out about those issues, by writing the white house, my Congressional Representative, and even news agencies.

It's not much and I'm sure they don't pay any attention to what I have to say but at least I feel like I tried
Of course my husband worries about the whole retaliation issue, that I might draw too much attention to myself and end up being shut up



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 
I agree 110%,sometimes I wish I could unlearn everything I've learned.I think the Amish have the right idea,well except for the religion aspect of it.I would give up every luxury to have what you describe,downsize the house and enough land to raise a garden and a few animals,I thought I was the only one that wanted to run away from the madness.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by jrmcleod
 



Then do something about it. One person has the power to change. You nor I are bound by anything. My question is, how do we change things without violence or a revolution that will tear apart society. The basics are there, it just needs a massive cleaning and revamping. If you or someone else can come up with a way without riots and killings etc .... I am in. If a revolution began in America, as with other country's, 50% of the people would use it as an excuse to go on a rioting/stealing/looting/killing rampage. How do we get past that. How do we avoid that? What do we do with those types of people ? This is why they ( governments ) do what they do. There are to many people who just don't get it and never will.

I don't have the solution, but if someone else does, I will listen ... Until then, I remain dormant ..



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by TWILITE22
reply to post by jrmcleod
 
I agree 110%,sometimes I wish I could unlearn everything I've learned.I think the Amish have the right idea,well except for the religion aspect of it.I would give up every luxury to have what you describe,downsize the house and enough land to raise a garden and a few animals,I thought I was the only one that wanted to run away from the madness.




Moving backwards isn't the answer. We all need to move forward as one world. The technologies governments hide from us, can save this planet and all on it a millions times over. The question is, how do we get them to fess up, clean up and get this going ...

Living like the Amish does not fulfill dreams of exploring space or curing cancer ...



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by Retroviral
 


If you want this world to change for the better, that's the first thing you need to change about yourself. You are anything but hopeless. Empower & believe in yourself.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by VI0811
 


There's no such thing as a peaceful revolution, because even if most of the people demonstrated peacefully, there exists an element within our society who stand for absolutely nothing, just like most politicians and the government will simply pay these people to riot and then use the MSM to make the rest of us look like the bad guys. But then who cares what the Gov or MSM thinks. It's them against the rest of us. Haven't they already made this perfectly clear?



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by VI0811
 


I can't see them relinquishing these technologies any time soon, so I guess it's up to people who actually care about humanity and this planet to use their own money to bring these technologies to market. If I was a billionaire, I would be doing something similar, but unfortunately I'm not.
I have loads of ideas for perpetual motion energy devices, but no money to bring my ideas to fruition. I imagine it's the same for most imaginative people.

I think nature provides everything we need and all we have to do is copy nature. Viktor Schauberger knew this and was a scientist way ahead of his time.

Viktor Schauberger & the Science of Nature
www.schauberger.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

The UFO's of Nazi Germany - Viktor Schauberger
www.scribd.com...
Perpetual Motion is the Way to Go
www.lhup.edu...



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Heartisblack
 


An apocalypse means a revelation, to lift the veil, not destruction or doom. You tying your tubes and selling your eggs still bring people into this world, but you don't care as long as their not your kids, right?






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