I Was A Deluded 9/11 Truther

The US Government has an extremely poor record of being right or accurate on anything as of late (i.e. past 20 years, at least).

If we believed the government's official story....

1. Iraq would have had ICBM's ready to hit London.
2. The BP Oil Spill really was only 5k bpd.
3. There was no Iran-Contra Affair.
4. We would have been in and out of Libya several months ago.
5. We would have been out of Iraq right after Obama took office.
6. Unemployment levels would be under 9% because of TARP.
7. FEMA really is there to help people.
8. Obamacare is going to reduce costs for businesses.
9. Obamacare will lead to more people being insured.
10. There's no way TSA's nude body scanners can actually save an image...
11. The US never purposely infected military personnel with syphilis.
12. Obama actually would have focused on jobs in 2009...
13. Obama actually would have focused on jobs in 2010...
14. Obama actually would have focused on jobs in 2011...
15. Obama actually would focus on jobs when he got back from vacation - ah, well - looks like he actually got around to it - gave a speech in fact and a plan he knows won't fly...
16. Turning it back to Bush - The economy was in perfect shape in 2007.
17. It was also in perfect shape in 2008. All the way up to Lehman Bros and Madoff...
18. There was absolutely no connection between Bush/Cheney and Enron...
19. Bill Clinton never had sex with THAT woman.
20. The Clintons have no connections whatsoever to illegal fundraising connected with the Chinese military.
21. Able Dangers documents could not have been shredded or destroyed... because they never did exist.
22. There was never a link between the CIA and Bin Laden - and the fact that members of Bin Laden's family where in the United States when 911 happened is purely coincidental.
23. The American Automotive Industry is alive and kicking. Okay, it is - but in China.
24. Crime in America is not increasing...
25. The Republican Party and the Tea Party - indeed MOST AMERICANS - are in fact Terrorists.

I could go on, and on and on, but not going to be that obsessive about just how whacked out on recycled crack the American government is. It takes some pretty extreme effort to be so freakin wrong so many freakin times and so epic of a scale.

If you really want to believe what the US Government has to say - be my guest... wish ya luck.

Oh... 26. The US Government really wants to resolve the Middle East Peace Crisis and THAT"s why it is going to be among the very, very few nations that are going to vote AGAINST recognizing a Palestinian State.

great, thanks for sharing! now turn off the lights and go back to bed kid...

Whew, this is turned into a nasty little thread. Never posted on a 911 thread before.
Anyway, had multiple replies to my posts, and only read two. In response to those:


Colorado Jens: "Start packin' my bags", you say. Hm. I don't think so. I have no reason to leave but thanks for your concern. On the other hand, since you live in a country that is trying to kill you, perhaps you have greater concerns than I.


Old Timer: No, I don't believe everything I hear. Do you? You have given me the second ad hominid attack I've had in the time I've been here on ATS. I believe the first person stated I couldn't read, among other insults. Those things weren't true either, by the way. The thread, you understand, is not about the personal characteristics of ladyinwaiting,

I presume you have responded to my question of "why do you stay, if you think your country is capable of these crimes". You state you remain because you love the country. I can appreciate that. I love it too.

This concludes my participation in a 911 thread.

Have a nice evening, folks.

You say you were a truther and now you are not, this just means that some truths are not for you.


EX-TRUTHERS CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH.

reply to post by SteveR


It's so much less scary when you can blame some poor, dark-skinned extremists who come from an eastern country you know nothing about, than some rich white-skinned extremists who live around the corner.

Originally posted by lostjohnny
reply to post by SteveR

 

It's so much less scary when you can blame some poor, dark-skinned extremists who come from an eastern country you know nothing about, than some rich white-skinned extremists who live around the corner.

I'm not sure it is. The conspiracy allows for the attacks to be calculated acts by evil white people. Horrifying, but ultimately preventable if we can just get rid of the evil ones, and understandable, because not the product of some amorphous racially mysterious other.

The conspiracy organises a complicated, messy situation into a nice neat one. And it means you don't have to wonder why people might hate you, or consider their differences, or think about lots of horrible complex global stuff. It makes a neat, narratively consistent package that provides closure. As such it's a much more comfortable viewpoint.

This is so pathetic it's funny. I went back and read a couple more responses to my post. I won't read anymore of them, unless of course, I decide to read some more of them.

I asked a question, and made a comment, and have been called names, been insulted, invited to leave the country, and you name it. lol.


No wonder S.O. threatens to close this forum.............

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
This is so pathetic it's funny. I went back and read a couple more responses to my post. I won't read anymore of them, unless of course, I decide to read some more of them.

I asked a question, and made a comment, and have been called names, been insulted, invited to leave the country, and you name it. lol.


No wonder S.O. threatens to close this forum.............

I love that emoticon. I'm suprised SO doesn't use it.


In any case, I think it's interesting how someone will make a thread they know is highly controversial, and then just disapear and not attempt to refute any counter arguements.


The 911 poll is pretty solid evidence that at the very LEAST there should be a REAL independant investigation done about 911. No one is happy with NIST or the "911 Report." So why not conduct another investigation and shut the millions of truthers up once and for all?

reply to post by samkent


There was no thermite in the WTC Towers.

The "explosive traces" or "thermite" claim comes from non-chemist Steven E. Jones

Stevie here is not a chemist where he got his sample is suspect. First he said he got from

The provenience of the WTC dust sample is an apartment at 113 Cedar Street in New York City, NY.

A monument constructed primarily from structural steel from the WTC Towers located at Clarkson University in Potsdam, New York, is the source of previously-molten metal samples...

The samples were sent directly to Prof. Jones at BYU, and inspected by him and Dr. Jeffrey Farrer together, and analyzed by the BYU group.
worldtradecentertruth.com...

The line that "the samples were sent directly to Prof. Jones at BYU" is of concern, as it suggests an uncertain chain of custody. How sure can we be that Professor Jones' correspondent is accurately representing the origin of the samples? This need not be a hoax, just a simple error, and the entire basis of the study is destroyed.

There's a further problem in the comment that the metal samples came from a monument constructed "primarily" from WTC steel. Did some of it come from elsewhere, then? A quick search online revealed this:

Air Force ROTC cadets in the 536 Detachment salute World Trade Center beams as the National Anthem is played on Sept. 11, 2006, during a memorial ceremony at Clarkson University in Potsdam, N.Y. Clarkson alumnus Michael Bielawa, who supervised cleanup efforts at ground zero, donated three pieces of structural steel to the school, two of which were identified as part of the 55th floor of the south tower
www.cbsnews.com...

Then from a survivor(Can't remember the thread it was posted by someone else)

www.911myths.com...

There are a number of things they claim with this photo. One is the timeline. They say the photo has firemen which means this was during the rescue operation which only lasted two weeks. Why would they have fireman after the rescue operations? This suggests to them that the cut on the columns were made very close to September 11. The suggestion here is that it was done during the collapse.

They claim that the angle of the cut can't be created by a welding tool and/or is designed to have the building fall in a certain direction.

The other is a yellow substance they claim is residue from a thermite reaction.

Let's examine these claims one by one to see where the evidence takes us...

Timeline and Firemen

The rescue operation took about two weeks. They figured anyone left alive would have died by then anyway, so they started clean up operations and body recovery. During this time there was always at least 50 policemen and 50 firemen left on the scene to recover their fallen brothers. There were even more than that on ground zero until the city of NY told them to leave in November 2001. The city couldn't justify risking the health of 150 police and fireman for body recovery. In fact there was a protest about it which ended with the mayor allowing 50 members of each department on the scene.

Citing safety concerns, Giuliani had sought to scale back the number of firefighters working at ground zero to 25. At one point there had been as many as 150 firefighters and police officers at the site.

The decision angered firefighters still mourning the loss of 343 colleagues in the attacks. Many bodies have not been recovered, and the firefighters said they wanted to help find the remains of their friends and colleagues.

The number of firefighters working at the site was increased to 50 on Thursday.

www.firehouse.com...

Below are photos of firemen well after September 11.



October



December 15th 2001

So the fact that there are firemen in the photo doesn't mean anything. That cut could have been done at any time during the clean up and recovery. Lets not forget the building went down some 6 stories underground. The firemen were recovering bodies mainly from the core and some were in the lobby when it happened. So it's not unreasonable to expect firemen there well after the event. Long enough for an ironworker to cut the column.

www.debunking911.com...

there exist NO peer-reviewed papers supporting controlled demolition, anywhere.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


At this point I think it would have to be a special prosecutor, appointed by Congress I think (rather than the attorney general?) to investigate government officials for misconduct while in office back then. Fat chance though that it will happen in this two-part one-party political system. It will do anything and avoid anything in the interests of its own self-preservation.

On the other hand having this mess lingering on for years and years creates a very unhealthy societal overhang. It´s this chronic situation of unfinished and unpleasant business. It certainly undermines general trust in the government and its agencies on all levels. I doubt that anything good will come of it. The longer it´s allowed to fester the more harmful it will get.

You could compare this to an overhang in a home, let´s say a child is being abused and most family members are aware of this but don´t talk about it or deal. They just hope it´ll stop or go away if it´s ignored long enough. Meanwhile the damage piles up.

Anyway, it´s interesting how a ruling system that derides conspiracies, especially its own, so heavily relies on that familiar conspiracy of silence in an effort to tire down all those conspiracy theorists - with mixed results to say the least.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

So why not conduct another investigation and shut the millions of truthers up once and for all?

Because according to people like Bill O'Reilly it's not only insulting to ask for another investigation, it's highly anti-government (aka = a form of a terrorist act) to even ask them to dignify that day!

For anyone who questions the US government should be locked up for life!

reply to post by Human_Alien


This O'Reilly gling-glong sounds just like Pravda in the thirties, covering up for Stalin.

I wonder what he thinks of Soviet dissidents and the Gulag.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


i think i know who you are!
me
my thoughts totally and i'm sure thousands of others!
i want to remind all of us both sides of the fence:that
intent and expectation are the things used to bring these buildings down! nothing else!
we really know who did it!
i trusted my teachers to do what i do, so where is os team of forensics experts and there evidence?
the os is from what i have read hearsay,whitewash and ignorant!
when is csi on when you need them

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
This is so pathetic it's funny. I went back and read a couple more responses to my post. I won't read anymore of them, unless of course, I decide to read some more of them.

I asked a question, and made a comment, and have been called names, been insulted, invited to leave the country, and you name it. lol.


No wonder S.O. threatens to close this forum.............

Perhaps you shouldn't say such ignorant things. Take a look at my avatar...ring a bell?

CJ

Originally posted by TrickoftheShadeI'm not sure it is. The conspiracy allows for the attacks to be calculated acts by evil white people. Horrifying, but ultimately preventable if we can just get rid of the evil ones, and understandable, because not the product of some amorphous racially mysterious other.

The conspiracy organises a complicated, messy situation into a nice neat one. And it means you don't have to wonder why people might hate you, or consider their differences, or think about lots of horrible complex global stuff. It makes a neat, narratively consistent package that provides closure. As such it's a much more comfortable viewpoint.

Here's the rub: If the OS is true, then the situation is quite simple. You stop invading other countries and bombing the # out of them. You stop raping their natural resources. You stop imposing your politics and/or religion onto them. Then there will be no more threat.

Instead, we have Governments who openly acknowledge the terrorist threat and then do the exact opposite of what is needed to end it. i.e. Fight fire with fire. The only rational conclusions are that they are either: A. conpletely incompetent - possible but not likely on such a large scale IMO; B. So brainwashed by religion, capitalist ideals and emotion from the event that they can't think clearly - highly likely; C. Lying to us - Probable IMO based on just how many times and on the scale that it happens.

Here's another way they could engage us in real discussions about world politics: Tell us "Ok, we are invading Iraq. This has nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing to do with terrorism. The fact is, right now we need the oil". If they said that yeah people would be pissed off, but at least we'd know the truth and be able to make informed decisions. But that is not what happens.

Your point about the conspiracy being a nice simple little viewpoint is complete BS by the way. The conspiracy theory is at least if not more complicated than the OS and still involves international relations between almost every country. Your comparison is not valid.

Originally posted by Cecilofs
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Your point about the conspiracy being a nice simple little viewpoint is complete BS by the way. The conspiracy theory is at least if not more complicated than the OS and still involves international relations between almost every country. Your comparison is not valid.

I agree with TrickoftheShade and by simple I think he meant easier to understand. Also, many people probably feel better when they forget about al-Qaeda and point their finger at the government instead. The government is tangible, al-Qaeda on the other hand is still largely an unknown, a ghost that can strike anytime anywhere. In my opinion the Truther mentality can be viewed as a symptom of psychological denial.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Whew, this is turned into a nasty little thread. Never posted on a 911 thread before.
Anyway, had multiple replies to my posts, and only read two. In response to those:


Colorado Jens: "Start packin' my bags", you say. Hm. I don't think so. I have no reason to leave but thanks for your concern.

On the other hand, since you live in a country that is trying to kill you, perhaps you have greater concerns than I.


Old Timer: No, I don't believe everything I hear. Do you? You have given me the second ad hominid attack I've had in the time I've been here on ATS. I believe the first person stated I couldn't read, among other insults. Those things weren't true either, by the way. The thread, you understand, is not about the personal characteristics of ladyinwaiting,

I presume you have responded to my question of "why do you stay, if you think your country is capable of these crimes". You state you remain because you love the country. I can appreciate that. I love it too.

This concludes my participation in a 911 thread.

Have a nice evening, folks.

Don't take it personally. One would need a REAL explanation with SOLID proof to back it up in order to respond in an intelligent manner, and since most of this is conjecture, fantasy and paranoia the only response is defensiveness.

In my opinion -- and YES, I have every right to one and every right to express it as does everyone else -- anyone who believes that the murder of thousands of innocent Americans was an orchestrated attack pulled off by OUR US GOVERNMENT is insane! They can't make a single intelligent decision beneficial to the people of this country, yet so many believe they had the wherewithal to not only plan, but carry out this attack on our country!

It's laughable that those that constantly criticize our government and use words such as "stupid", "dangerous", "wicked", "corrupt", etc., actually believe that these same individuals could stay focused long enough to kill thousands on 9/11 and then have the mental capacity to remember and not waver from the "lie" they were to tell! Hell, It is hard enough for ONE person to lie and be consistent in that lie over and over again, but for the so-called MULTITUDE that were in on this elaborate scheme to stick to their story after all these years would seem to take some kind of intelligence don't you think? Think about it.

As far as your question, "why do you stay, if you think your country is capable of these crimes" there was a response of, "Why should we run away. Obviously you are the type who runs away from problems. You did say you would leave this country if you believed that the US government was corrupt enough to harm it's own people. That would make you a COWARD. Some people actually have the courage to stand their ground and speak truth to power. We are really that different from you. People like you sit there and wish we would flea, and that's about as proactive as you'll ever be on the matter. Maybe if you stay glued to WWE, Daystar,Fox and daytime chatshows, we will just disappear."

As far as I'm concerned, that response is just one of the many examples of the idiocy running rampant in this country AND it was not an answer! ANSWER THE QUESTION instead of showing your ignorance and defensiveness! What the true answer is, is that the reason these people stay is because this is the best country in the world! They sure as hell wouldn't want to move anywhere else because then they would REALLY be targeted and stalked and blacklisted if they spoke openly about those in power as they do here! They may even find out the true meaning of government corruption and cover ups, and that would be devastating because they then what would they waste their time doing?

Therefore, blah yada is the only COWARD here. We don't "wish you would 'flea' (really?) we just want you to back up your claims with some tangible proof -- real proof that can be substantiated, not conjecture, not affidavits given by a second cousin of the ex brother-in-law of a "top" government official, not taped interviews on youtube by radicals who "were there" -- REAL PROOF!!

Give us something that makes sense and then we can talk.

reply to post by joinreality


So, you believe the whole ridiculous official fable, three skyscrapers collapsing totally from fire, an airliner hitting the wall of the Pentagon feet off the ground at 530 mph, an airliner disappearing upon crashing at Shanksville, not to mention scores of other gems of fantasy -

because you don´t believe that the govt. and/or its agencies were capable of pulling off the operation ? And yet you have no problem with some boxcutter boys led by a guy in a cave in the middle of nowhere executing the operation almost to a perfection it seems. While the US military went to the beach, incidentally.

I find this sort of reasoning just astounding.

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by Cecilofs
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Your point about the conspiracy being a nice simple little viewpoint is complete BS by the way. The conspiracy theory is at least if not more complicated than the OS and still involves international relations between almost every country. Your comparison is not valid.

I agree with TrickoftheShade and by simple I think he meant easier to understand. Also, many people probably feel better when they forget about al-Qaeda and point their finger at the government instead. The government is tangible, al-Qaeda on the other hand is still largely an unknown, a ghost that can strike anytime anywhere. In my opinion the Truther mentality can be viewed as a symptom of psychological denial.

edit on 16-9-2011 by cripmeister because: (no reason given)

Do you mean alCIAda? Funded and trained by US assets to be use as, wait for it, US assets. Ya sure a "unknown" "ghost" is harder to point to, too bad we do know who they were-are.

Originally posted by Cecilofs

Originally posted by TrickoftheShadeI'm not sure it is. The conspiracy allows for the attacks to be calculated acts by evil white people. Horrifying, but ultimately preventable if we can just get rid of the evil ones, and understandable, because not the product of some amorphous racially mysterious other.

The conspiracy organises a complicated, messy situation into a nice neat one. And it means you don't have to wonder why people might hate you, or consider their differences, or think about lots of horrible complex global stuff. It makes a neat, narratively consistent package that provides closure. As such it's a much more comfortable viewpoint.

Here's the rub: If the OS is true, then the situation is quite simple. You stop invading other countries and bombing the # out of them. You stop raping their natural resources. You stop imposing your politics and/or religion onto them. Then there will be no more threat.

Instead, we have Governments who openly acknowledge the terrorist threat and then do the exact opposite of what is needed to end it. i.e. Fight fire with fire. The only rational conclusions are that they are either: A. conpletely incompetent - possible but not likely on such a large scale IMO; B. So brainwashed by religion, capitalist ideals and emotion from the event that they can't think clearly - highly likely; C. Lying to us - Probable IMO based on just how many times and on the scale that it happens.

Here's another way they could engage us in real discussions about world politics: Tell us "Ok, we are invading Iraq. This has nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing to do with terrorism. The fact is, right now we need the oil". If they said that yeah people would be pissed off, but at least we'd know the truth and be able to make informed decisions. But that is not what happens.

Your point about the conspiracy being a nice simple little viewpoint is complete BS by the way. The conspiracy theory is at least if not more complicated than the OS and still involves international relations between almost every country. Your comparison is not valid.

Oh, my! Not fight fire with fire! How dare we!? Instead we should apologize and let them know there's no hard feelings over the fact that THEY COME ONTO US SOIL AND KILL AMERICAN CITIZENS!! I have read every post in this topic and just when I thought that every stupid and ignorant comment had been exhausted you come along!

On Oct 12, 2000, the USS Cole was attacked by Osama Bin Laden killing 17 Americans. On February 26, 1993, a truck bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center killing six people and injuring more than a thousand. That attack was carried out by Ramzi Yousef, who was born as Abdul Basit Mahmoud Abdul Karim, and he spent time at Al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. On both of those occasions America did as you wish -- NOTHING. Then on 9/11 after three thousand Americans were killed we finally had a President who had balls enough to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Tell you what .... THEY stop invading America and bombing the # out of us there will be no more threat!