US Military Plane Forced Down By North Korean Electronic Attack

reply to post by Frogs


Where there is a signal, there is a target.

Saddam and many others learned that early on, but apparently the NK's haven't

There is a price for being a tad bit too arrogant. They've just tipped their hat as Slayer sez.

One weapons system identified, probably a few more to go.

I think some of you need to go back and take a Reading Comprehension Class, unless you are commenting without reading the article and I won't go into what I think of that. No place in that article does it say that the aircraft was in North Korea's airspace. You also need to be reminded that there is still a state of war between North and South Korea. If you plan on whining about the US being in South Korea, I suggest that you take it up with your beloved UN. Another thing is that North Korea is usually the one doing the intrusion into South Korea (including artilliary shelling) instead of the other way around. Does South Korea have the same right to protect it's airspace that you give to North Korea?

There is a very simple cure for this jamming, it is called a HARM missile.

A HARM missile would be an escalation. That's not what you want.

Anyway, last I heard, NKorea had gotten their GPS jamming tech from Russia. It seems they have improved it.

And NKorea tech is crap. They are not even in the 60s technology in most fields.

reply to post by Frogs


if they can lock down the gps on a plane, then they can do the same to missles. A system fully in place like that would make them virtually untouchable by modern tech...

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Frogs

 

if they can lock down the gps on a plane, then they can do the same to missles. A system fully in place like that would make them virtually untouchable by modern tech...

That wouldn't bother a HARM at all. It doesn't use GPS, it homes in on the signal that is being transmitted.

reply to post by JIMC5499


I read the article. It doesnt state that the aircraft was not in NK airspace, the fact a rather crucial piece of information is ommited pretty much speaks for itself. It let's the hard of thinking jump to conclusions from which they show their own predjudices. In this case, that NK is automatically to blame. I mean don't let hard facts stand in the way of sound judgement or anything. Me, I'd rather wait before pointing a finger but that's just me trying to deny ignorance. I see you are a member of the kneejerk reaction club.

reply to post by quackers


There was nothing that said that the aircraft WAS in North Korean airspace either, but, from reading the posts alot of people were assuming that it was.

reply to post by JIMC5499


So was it or wasn't it? Let me guess, you don't know right? I think you've already shown us all your mindset. Congrats on being part of the problem.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
A HARM missile would be an escalation. That's not what you want.

Not during a shooting war but again this wasn't the case however what should be looked at is that North Korea exposed an ability. Which if history proves anything it will be countered. They would have been smarter to not have turned the thing on in the first place.

Sun Tzu Said...
"All warfare is based on deception"

reply to post by purplemer

if they can lock down the gps on a plane, then they can do the same to missles. A system fully in place like that would make them virtually untouchable by modern tech...

Again - if they are really jamming the ordnance-grade GPS signals (designed to be difficult to jam). It's unclear what they are jamming, specifically.

Further - www.globalsecurity.org... The AGM-88 "HARM" (High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile) is designed to home on the signals emitted from tracking radars and ground-based jamming equipment.

There's really no way to spoof it. Think of it like shooting at a flashlight... or an inverse laser-guided system (where the target is self-illuminating). The only way to counter these weapons is to simply turn your device off and hope there was still enough margin of error in the trajectory to prevent a direct hit.

Lacking an AGM-88, there are still multiple weapon systems capable of defeating a GPS jamming system. Laser guided munitions can be used once the emission source has been identified with broad-spectrum analyzers (the RWR can be slaved to the INS to produce a synthetic aperture and triangulate the source). The same goes for TV guidance as well as INS-guided munitions (INS works well against fixed targets as the guidance is all internal and based entirely off of gyroscopes and accelerometers - it's jam-proof).

If the aircraft was not in NK airspace then it is highly likely this would have been mentioned as it would lean towards an unprovoked and unjustified action. It would work in their favour to mention this. Howeve, it is far more likely that it was in their airspace and the action was fully justified but in order to sway the opinions of the idiot masses it was conveniently left out. A lie by ommision is still a lie.

Was it in their air space or wasn't it?
Whatever it was the usual sabre rattling from US. They know it and we know it. A case of the victim landing one back at the school bully. Good for them.

reply to post by quackers


Conversely by that logic the North Koreans didn't use this great piece of propaganda had the plane been in their airspace either.

reply to post by quackers

I read the article. It doesnt state that the aircraft was not in NK airspace, the fact a rather crucial piece of information is ommited pretty much speaks for itself.

Having participated in the Ulchi Freedom Guardian exercise on multiple occasions, I'll state that it's simply not the case for a U.S. aircraft to be north of the border. The North Koreans would shoot the damned thing down (or try), and the South Koreans would get rather pissy about increasing tensions (they really don't relish the idea of killing people they see as their family - as much as they understand the need for defense).

It let's the hard of thinking jump to conclusions from which they show their own predjudices. In this case, that NK is automatically to blame. I mean don't let hard facts stand in the way of sound judgement or anything. Me, I'd rather wait before pointing a finger but that's just me trying to deny ignorance. I see you are a member of the kneejerk reaction club.

Generally speaking, when North Korea is involved, it is always one of their little temper-tantrums. While the focus of this has been on the aircraft that was 'forced down' (likely, ATC simply decided it was a good idea to have the bird land until the issue blew over) - many other systems (including ships) were reported to be affected. That gives this effect a rather large radius.

Korea is a pretty small place. You can drive across the country in a single day, and the Mississippi is only slightly more narrow than the DMZ.

You don't have to be anywhere near the border for EW systems to affect you.

reply to post by SLAYER69


True enough. In which case, and in light of lack of a clear understanding of the events, the logical thing to do is take neither side.

Originally posted by quackers
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

True enough. In which case, and in light of lack of a clear understanding of the events, the logical thing to do is take neither side.

Yet...

The story is coming from the South Korean/US side.
I smell a rat. Seems to me someone is fishing for an increase in certain areas of defense spending for "Certain" black budget projects.

Just a hunch.

Originally posted by quackers
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

True enough. In which case, and in light of lack of a clear understanding of the events, the logical thing to do is take neither side.

You forgot add...

"until more is known."

But point taken.

reply to post by Aim64C


Anything that relies upon signals, whether ground, air or space based can be jammed. My old OIC was a contractor for General Dynamics and he told me that they were once again returning, thru mathematics and physics, to the old ways of accurately bumping unguided bombs on targets.

But overall, if we are looking at updating old tech…that may be a message unto itself. Ya think?

reply to post by The_Zomar


That's it Zomar, stick it to the man!!!!.. I once knew a guy that felt the exact same way..
Too bad he was always hindered by the drool guard and helmet.

Keep up the illogical and emotional fight.

here's the list of the incidents between U.S./ROK and North Korean forces.

Since demarcation, the DMZ has had numerous cases of incidents and incursions by the North Koreans, although the North Korean government never acknowledges direct responsibility for any of these incidents. These include: October 1966–October 1969: Korean DMZ Conflict (1966–1969), a series of skirmishes along the DMZ results in 43 U.S., 299 South Korean and 397 North Korean soldiers killed

January 17, 1968: 31 North Korean commandos crossed the border disguised as South Korean soldiers in an attempt to assassinate President Park Chung Hee at the Blue House. The failed mission resulted in 29 commandos killed (one committed suicide) and the other two captured. Two South Korean policemen and five civilians were killed by the commandos. Other reports indicated as many as 68 South Koreans killed and 66 wounded, including about 24 civilians. Three Americans were killed and another three wounded in an attempt to prevent the commandos from escaping back via the DMZ.

October 1968: 130 North Korean commandos entered the Ulchin and Samcheok areas in Gangwon-do. Eventually 110 of them were killed, 7 were captured and 13 escaped.

March 1969: Six North Korean infiltrators crossed the border near Chumunjin, Gangwon-do and killed a South Korean policeman on guard duty.

April 1970: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed and five South Korean soldiers wounded at an encounter in Kumchon, Gyeonggi-do.

November 20, 1974: The first of what would be a series of North Korean infiltration tunnels under the DMZ was discovered. The joint ROK-U.S. investigation team tripped a North Korean booby-trap killing one American and wounding 6 others. Operation Paul Bunyan, to remove a tree in front of the Bridge of No Return, takes place following the Axe Murder Incident in August 1976.

March 1975: The second North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered.

June 1976: Three North Korean infiltrators and six South Korean soldiers were killed in the eastern sector south of the DMZ. Another six South Korean soldiers were injured.

August 18, 1976: The Axe Murder Incident results in the death of two U.S. soldiers and injuries to another four U.S. soldiers and five South Korean soldiers. The incident may not be technically considered an "infiltration" however, as it took place in a neutral zone of the Joint Security Area.

July 14, 1977: An American CH-47 Chinook helicopter was shot down after straying into the north over the DMZ. Three airmen were killed and one was briefly held prisoner (This was the sixth such incident since the Armistice was signed.)

October 1978: The third North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered.

October 1979: Three North Korean agents attempting to infiltrate the eastern sector of the DMZ were intercepted, killing one of the agents.

December 6, 1979: US patrol in the DMZ accidentally crosses the MDL into a North Korean minefield. One US soldier is killed and four are injured. March 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed attempting to enter the south across the estuary of the Han River.

March 1981: Three North Korean infiltrators spotted at Kumhwa, Gangwon-do, one was killed.

July 1981: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed in the upper stream of Imjin River.

May 1982: Two North Korean infiltrators were spotted on the east coast, one was killed.

March 1990: The fourth North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered, in what may be a total of 17 tunnels in all.

May 1992: Three North Korean infiltrators dressed in South Korean uniforms were killed at Cheorwon, Gangwon-do. Three South Koreans were also wounded. December 17, 1994: American OH-58A+ Kiowa helicopter crosses 10 km into North Korean territory and is shot down.

October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Imjin River. One was killed, the other escaped.

April 1996: Several hundred North Korean armed troops entered the Joint Security Area and elsewhere on three occasions in violation of the Korean armistice agreement.

May 1996: Seven North Korean soldiers crossed the DMZ but withdrew when fired upon by South Korean troops.

April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers crossed the military demarcation line's Cheorwon sector and fired at South Korean positions.

July 1997: Fourteen North Korean soldiers crossed the MDL, causing a 23-minute exchange of heavy gunfire.

October 26, 2000: Two US aircraft observing a ROK army military exercise accidentally cross over the DMZ.

May 26, 2006: Two North Korean soldiers entered the DMZ and crossed into South Korea. They returned after South Korean soldiers fired warning shots.

October 27, 2009: A South Korean pig farmer, who was wanted for assault, cut a hole in the DMZ fence and defected to North Korea.

October 29, 2010: Two shots were fired from North Korea towards a South Korean post near Hwacheon and South Korean troops fired three shots in return