Question: If Jesus was the son of God, why did he wait to do his miracles?

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


I guess what I am looking for is WHY people so blindly follow. I do know he existed, but so did Merlin... is it because of the difference in words they used in their "teachings"? Or is it because people NEED to believe in something, and Jesus' miracles just verified their faith in God?

I am just curious as to how people perceive things I guess. I don't want to offend anyone or insult, just want to know how people actually feel about it.

I used to believe absolutely in Jesus, but after studying various religions can't absolutely say that he is the son of God.

Originally posted by Wetpaint72
reply to post by freespirit1

 

Are you suggesting that the bible itself is more than that...more than stories? Stories you believe as truth, that is your right.

But, some if not most of these "stories" were written around the same time frame as the others, and the characters will be familiar to you. The Gnostics fill in huge gaps in timelines, and give great in site into those close to jesus. The book about infant/child Jesus was supposedly written by Thomas. There are also a book of Mary magdaline, among others. Read it and judge for yourself. Why let some powerful men of the past make that choice for you. If Christianity is your chosen path, IMO, you should be as knowledgeable as you can be.

Exactly. Knowledge is power, and I refuse to just look at one aspect and take it as absolute truth. That is why I put the question out there. So many different religions have their own "prophets" so why is ONE the only one or the right one to follow?

Everyone has a right to believe how they choose.

Originally posted by CrazyJohn921
reply to post by freespirit1

 

Jesus kept saying...

"my time has not yet come..."

then it did...

Jesus said 'Lazarus come forth!'.
He came fifth, and there was war.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by freespirit1

 

We don't know if Jesus even existed, let alone whether the accounts of "miracles" are true.

If he could heal leapers with his "magic" powers, or heal many at sun-down, why not just heal the whole world? If he is, afterall…. the alleged embodiment of God...the "entity" that created the whole of existence.

The OP makes it clear that in this thread they wish to work with the assumption that he did and discuss a topic from there.

He didn't come to fix the world. He came (just like Buddha and others like him) to provide the living example for those who have yet to wake up to the very same divinity within us. He didn't come to do the job FOR us. He came to teach us to fish for ourselves as that is why we are here in the first place.

"Christ's Return" is the return of the awareness that he had... within *ourselves*. This is the very thing that is happening all around us (you can see it even here at ATS).

Namaste!

edit on 3-9-2011 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)

Read the bible; Jesus' teaching isn't perfect, and verses can be considered reprehensible and not easily rebutted with exegesis., Jesus (if he existed) was just another man with a different kind of thinking, and like Ghandi, it can be vastly improved.

Aspiring for an altruistic civilisation is different from "Christ's Return". Christianity doesn't deserve such accolades, Bhuddism more so.

reply to post by freespirit1


Ahhh ok... thanks for clearing it up a bit.

Why do people blindly follow a sports team? Or a political figure? Or a friend? Or a lover? Or anyone else?

I think you are actually going down the right track as I see it. You are breaking apart the old vision of Jesus that has been pushed upon you... because you are right... your current vision of Jesus as "THE Son of God" is not able to survive upon inquisitiveness on your own part.

That is the first step to breaking the cycle and awakening it within yourself.

Once you can start to see Lao Tzu, Mohammed, Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Ghandi, the homeless man down the street, the bully who picked on you as a kid, Hitler, your parents... but most importantly YOURSELF as Sons/Daughters of God/Tao... then the veils start to drop and it all starts to make sense again.

It's the illusion of separation telling us that we have to depend upon someone else (Jesus) to be whole that is causing the disconnect. You are feeling that disconnect (rightly so!)... but haven't found the informational foundation to fill in the blanks and see the bigger picture that is waiting for those who seek it to find.

The Gnostic texts (Nag Hammadi), Tao Te Ching, Law of One, teachings of Buddha, Ancient Hindu and Native American teachings, etc can all be explored to start to weave together a more complete picture that can't be had if someone is immersed in one and only one perspective.

The goal is to rise above those fragmented perspectives and put the puzzle back together and see the image it forms. In that image you will find yourself, me, everyone else AND God all as One.

Namaste!

Originally posted by freespirit1
Exactly. Knowledge is power, and I refuse to just look at one aspect and take it as absolute truth. That is why I put the question out there. So many different religions have their own "prophets" so why is ONE the only one or the right one to follow?

Everyone has a right to believe how they choose.

That's the point... there is no right one to follow. They are all crutches that can be used to reach a higher understanding. However starting piano players must learn to play Mary Had a Little Lamb before they can learn to play Fugie in D Minor.

Sounds like you are simply ready to move on to a harder more complex song. One which *does* include Merlin and other prophets/wise men in the same fellowship as Jesus... all working together to help us awaken the truth within ourselves.

Congratulations and I wish you the greatest on your journey!

Namaste

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


Thank you...... I thought maybe I was going a little crazy for not following the masses

reply to post by freespirit1


Jesus was only called the Son of God as an honorary title bestowed upon the King of Judea. This is all he ever claimed to be. However, given that Judea was under Roman occupation at the time and they had chosen Herod to rule the land he couldn't very well go about proclaiming his royalty openly.

I came across this interesting story a few years ago, but I'm afraid I genuinely do not remember where. I do remeber reading that it can be found in the writings of various contemporary Jewish, Syrian and Egyptian chroniclers/historians, but having never studied such works I cannot confirm this:

The Romans decided they wanted Judea owing to its wealth which in turn came from its ideal location on several trading routes. In they marched. The incumbant King was not prepared - he was loved by his people and almost entirely unopposed. After all, who wanted to kill the Son of God? And so his military forces were little more than a force of security guards. The Romans killed him in battle.

His only child was a daughter and under the law of the land at that time a daughter could not inherit. So the Romans looked round for someone else to govern the province for them. They quickly found a man called Herod (not the baby killer, we'll get to him) who was the largest land owner in Judea. As such, his force of security guards was much larger than the old king's had been. In fact they were plenty large enough to keep the Judean people paying taxes but not large enough to take on the Romans. Perfect.

There appears to be some confusion as to whether the people actually liked Herod or whether they were just beholden to him as their landlord. Either way, it is certain that they despised his son, also called Herod (this one's the baby killer). When Herod the elder died, peacefully of old age, there was very nearly a revolt against Herod the younger. He quelled it by marrying the daughter of the old king who had been killed by the Romans. People still didn't like him, but at least there was a genuine descendant of David in the palace. Her name was Maria.

One day news came to herod the younger of a small uprising in a far flung corner of Judea. He gathered his forces to go and put the rebellion down. Before he set off he tasked his most trusted and skillful bodyguard to remain behind and protect his queen. No fool, he knew his grip on power relied on her staying alive. That bodyguard's name was Josephus.

Josephus and Maria quickly fell in love and she fell pregnant. They ran away together to her family's lands, which were outside Bethlehem, which in turn is not that far from Herod's palace.

When Herod came home and learned the news he ordered the death of every baby boy born that year. He knew that if Maria were to have a son then that son would be the rightful king of Judea and the people would rise up in such numbers that he would be finished. Even the Romans would not support him against that.

Josephus and Maria knew that the Romans would try to influence the child who would be king/governor and use him as their pawn. So they fled to Egypt where they hid in plain sight and obtained the best education they could for their son Jesus.

If you are God and created all it means you created the Devil...Why allow him to exist if he truly irritates you that much. Would getting rid of him not be as simple as a flick of the wrist?

Why would you not make your presence known constantly? To make sure people did not harm other people?
Why "free will?"

The Bible raises too many questions than to me provides answers. It seems like a good way to live but its impossible to conform fully to the bible without losing whom you are and becoming something else living by a strict set of rules. Why would you create a life with the kinds of things we are capable to doing and experiencing only to hate your creation for making choices you disagree with even though you provided the free will for said person(s) to do so.

I buy the 10 commandments. Most if not all you can pretty much accept as universal laws we can all live by no matter what creed. But Damnation for all based on decisions we make? Some decisions are heinous and not understood..Murder..Rape...etc etc.. Perhaps there is a universal law to deal with upon death. However, Everything else? I just do not see why a figure such as our "loving creator" would wish Harm..Those of you whom are parents I highly doubt no matter what your kid did you would want to see eternal harm done to them because they did not follow the rules under your roof... Maybe a spanking? Grounding? No X box? but Eternal damnation? Come on....Sounds like a "stay in check" command by a ruler.

I want to believe in Christ and in his existence I do. I just have many questions myself as to why wait at all for your events to unfold.

reply to post by freespirit1



Haha... oh man I and many here with you know that feeling well. It gets easier... though it can get harder before it gets easier. Please know that I feel the utmost gratitude and excitement to get to share in this discussion with you as you start to ask these questions and challenge those assumptions.

The masses provide the "intellectual" gravity that we're trying to escape from. Just as it only meant something if Jesus *actually* went through the same experiences and challenges we do... it only means something if you make the conscious decision to break away from the masses because your own relationship with your inner self (be it God, Tao, whatever) is telling you that there is something more and you are going to pursue it *in spite of* the resistance provided by the outside world's momentum.

Namaste Friend!

reply to post by freespirit1


I believe that faith is personal, I believe what gets me throughout this life on a daily basis.

Too many times religion is used as a dividing tool. It is equated with patriotism to ones country, region, tribe or family. It is a highly charged subject by nature, because it requires blind faith built around group consensus morality. As it can be used as a civilization building tool....because if the governing body can't catch you, god can,it does bring some order from chaos. But when taken for granted and it's purpose manipulated....it it a great tool for division and control.

Too often it is blind obligation that directs ones beliefs, not true soul searching, for fear of being outcast, judged, or ridiculed... Or even killed.

reply to post by freespirit1


I also have a question? Why did greek mythology stop when Jesus was born????

reply to post by Old77


Consider this: What if earth is the place where spiritual selves can go to experience what it is like to be separated individuated selves apart from God/Source/Tao in order to learn from the separation. To learn what it is like to *actually* experience hate, injustice, fear... but more importantly... the eventual rising back out of it.

Now if you knew the answer when you were born, there wouldn't be anything interesting to learn. It's the same as being that infinite perfectly in harmony spiritual being. Or playing a video game with the cheat codes. So we have this place which is bursting with universal truth... but there are certain portions of ourselves that we tasked with the job of making it as HARD as possible to remember who we are... and to cover up and obfuscate the truth as much as possible until the appointed time we have set aside to finally leave the game and reflect on what was experienced/learned.

These people appear evil to us, but on the flip side they would be doing us the favor. But until we are awakened enough, we can't see anything but fear or anger or pain with no good reason for it to exist.

This lack of awareness is an incredibly powerful refining tool on your sense of self. Nothing else can teach you who you really are than to be forced to stand up for yourself in the face of total opposition and believe in the truth you See. A child from the poor side of the tracks has proven more by rising to success than a child born into wealth proves by continuing the success. We chose to become poor in consciousness to experience and learn from rising back out of this.

Namaste!

reply to post by POPUP2000

Why is it called "mythology"? My personal belief is that once someone has something else to believe in, the last "story" is null and void, thus a "myth" from that point on.

If we have a truly GREAT leader come into power, will they be considered the next "Jesus"?

I do believe in a higher power, my personal God.... I just can't buy into every story about someone that was a great person/leader/prophet.

reply to post by freespirit1


You ask for answers but then say you dont want a bunch of scriptures quoted, my complaint about people like you is you are critical of a religion in this case, and in your already pre-determined state of mind, you restrict the answers that people can give.

Your not really interested in an answer your simply closed minded and not really interested in diverse opinions.

In all honesty, the only answers available to your "question" will probably come from scriptures. If you dont like the answers, don't bother answering the question.

Originally posted by freespirit1
I have no doubt that Jesus existed. However, if he was truly the son of God, why did he wait until he was in his thirties to start preaching and working "miracles"?

I don't want a bunch of quoted scriptures from the bible, I just want some thought put into this.... Jesus DID exist, but I have a hard time believing that he was the son of God. Just "because the bible says so" isn't enough for me.

So many people over the course of history have different beliefs, and the bible contradicts itself over and over again- How do you know that you are not following the teachings of a prophet rather than the real deal????

Here's the deal. God is the ultimate expression of Reality. To know God you need to be extremely conscious and aware of the Truth. There are not many, and has not been many people in our history that have become extremely conscious of truth or reality. Instead most live in absolute and complete delusion.

Denying truth is what we do best. We are ignorant of Reality.. S how does the Son Of God make you aware of reality? Something you are literally immersed in? The very thing that your delusion exists in? How does he make you aware of something you should already be completely aware of? How should truth wake you up to the only thing that is real? Well all of the deluded people in history are SURE of how they expect truth/God/Jesus could wake them up to what is real. They (deluded lies) want to tell TRUTH how to express itself. Does that make any sense? That someone in total delusion would have a better idea of how to express truth than truth?

Meaning.. Why should we think seeing someone fly around in the air or walk on water or raise the dead make us understand truth? Do you tell a physicist how to explain physics to you? My point is.. you can wonder about Jesus all day long. You can make assumptions, guesses and reasons why he failed or why he wasn't who he said he was.. But it's a parable for our own denial or delusion of reality. If you have ears you can hear. If you don't have ears you can't hear.

Jesus didn't come here to wake you up. That is something most people cannot admit. Truth has no agenda. Truth is just real. Truth is just the only real thing that exists. Everyone is free to be deluded. As difficult as it may be to admit, WE are choosing our own delusion.

Don't try and understand Jesus/Truth as something separate from yourself. Because it's not true. The only way to understand Jesus/God/Reality is the real honest way.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by freespirit1

 

You ask for answers but then say you dont want a bunch of scriptures quoted, my complaint about people like you is you are critical of a religion in this case, and in your already pre-determined state of mind, you restrict the answers that people can give.

Your not really interested in an answer your simply closed minded and not really interested in diverse opinions.

In all honesty, the only answers available to your "question" will probably come from scriptures. If you dont like the answers, don't bother answering the question.

Wow, way to judge. You don't know me, please do not try to insult me. If you can quote a scripture that doesn't contradict itself, please feel free to do so. The point I was trying to make here is that there is more than one religion to look at. If Jesus can be PROVEN to be the son of God, then by all means, quote a scripture for me.

reply to post by freespirit1


My point is there is way more proof on mythology then Jesus ,Moses and Mohamed.....

reply to post by POPUP2000

Behind every myth or story, there is usually some sort of truth.

Originally posted by freespirit1
I have no doubt that Jesus existed. However, if he was truly the son of God, why did he wait until he was in his thirties to start preaching and working "miracles"?

I don't want a bunch of quoted scriptures from the bible, I just want some thought put into this.... Jesus DID exist, but I have a hard time believing that he was the son of God. Just "because the bible says so" isn't enough for me.

So many people over the course of history have different beliefs, and the bible contradicts itself over and over again- How do you know that you are not following the teachings of a prophet rather than the real deal????

He didn't call Himself the Son of God, but the Son of Man. If you do a search for Son of Man, you get the picture all the way through from the OT to the NT. LINK SEARCH

Matthew 26

22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, “Surely you don’t mean me, Lord?”

23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

63 The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Jesus is the the Son of God the Father. On earth, He was a Son of Man. He came as the first Adam and as the last Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:44-46 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 15

Logos is the Word of God. Jesus was the Son of God who was the original Word (Son) of God. He is also the first Adam and the last Adam. Through His work from the moment of creation to the last letter of the story (Word), destiny is played out according to the overall plan. We are being redeemed from a fall that happened before man was created. We only have scraps of this story, but we know that the powers and principalities that were created before us in heaven are the fallen creation. We may be the very 1/3 of heaven that fell along with Satan. Our redemption comes as a witness against Satan. The story is not totally clear.

We do know that Jesus as a man was a son of man. He was also the son of God with a purpose.

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

1 John 3:7-9 (in Context) 1 John 3 (Whole Chapter)

1 John 4:15

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

Adam was the first Son of God.