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Question: If Jesus was the son of God, why did he wait to do his miracles?

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posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by freespirit1
 


Jesus is a prophet, but is also the messiah(not GOD) and was also born through immaculate conception, he is not LITERALLY the son of GOD, just figuratively speaking.

Dont listen to the christians, they will just speak blasphemy, and try and attribute GOD to his creation by saying that GOD begets/reproduces, when in reality GOD has NO literal children, GOD is seperate from his creation, HE is not 3 in 1, GOD is one. To beget/reproduce is an animalistic characteristic which GOD is far above.




posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I agree that Jesus never uttered the exact phrase "I am God", but he did suggest it, and never denied it when others asked it of him... to me that indicates that whether he thought it or not he was happy for others to believe it of him. Though he did state "I am the son of god (or man)", which using Christian logic means that he is part of the trinity, which is "one" and so he IS claiming to be God. On that note I believe his words are also suggestive that we are all God in some way, and that would have definitely made the haters hate him.

I'm not an expert on scripture, but I do know he stated many times "I AM...” which in one particular instance to the Jews had a significance connected with God. He also stated “I am in my Father and my Father is in me" (or something similar) that also suggests an affinity with god above others.

In this context, and relating to the OP, it is entirely possible that he was just a prophet with a unique understanding (at the time) of his connection to the universal concept of God, and it is only our interpretation throughout the ages that has elevated him above us and God above him, when his message was quite simply (regardless of what you believe) that we are all god, and God is all of us, everything just being one part of the whole.

edit on 3-9-2011 by puzzlesphere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by freespirit1
I have no doubt that Jesus existed. However, if he was truly the son of God, why did he wait until he was in his thirties to start preaching and working "miracles"?

I don't want a bunch of quoted scriptures from the bible, I just want some thought put into this.... Jesus DID exist, but I have a hard time believing that he was the son of God. Just "because the bible says so" isn't enough for me.

So many people over the course of history have different beliefs, and the bible contradicts itself over and over again- How do you know that you are not following the teachings of a prophet rather than the real deal????


I want you to think about what I'm about to say, OP, since you claim to believe that Jesus did, in fact, exist.

Look at the Apostles, the men who got up, abandoned their lives, and followed Christ. The men who were both ashamed and cowards, as they described themselves in their own words.

Now, consider the crucifixion of Christ, and His death, and his placement in the chamber. Now, believing He is nothing else but a man, He obviously would NOT have resurrected, correct?

Now consider this, the Apostles, who claimed to have seen Jesus alive, must have been lying to say He has resurrected, correct? It was all a fabrication, as they say, right?

This is not logical behavior at all, if it were true. The Apostles suffered shame, ridicule, persecution, torture, and DEATH, for Jesus - because once He resurrected, they knew Him to be the Son of God.

Now, you can call them crazy, that they were lied to and it destroyed them so much, that they couldn't let go. However, like I said, this is not logical - why?

Because of the Problem of Pain.

An example -

If you haven't heard of Heaven's Gate, educate yourself. In short, it was the belief that the comet Hale-Bopp would pass by Earth and leave destruction in it's wake. Many people killed themselves hoping to "hitch a ride" on the Comet. Were they right? Well, we're all still here, aren't we? So obviously, they were wrong.

How does this relate to the Apostles?

It doesn't take a genius to know that people die for their beliefs all the time, which is shown with Heaven's Gate. However, people will not die for a known lie. Do you think the people who killed themselves for Heaven's Gate would have done so if they KNEW, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, THAT THEY WERE WRONG?

The answer is NO.

Therefore, it is logical to assume that if Jesus was NOTHING MORE THAN A MAN, the Apostles would have known it WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that Jesus was nothing more than a MAN. Sure, a couple would have preached his ways, but to suffer TORTURE, PERSECUTION, AND DEATH, one must be DAMNED sure of what they believe in.

The Apostles, following suit, must have known Jesus was truly the Son of God, and that His resurrection really happened. As far as waiting to do his miracles, although the relevance of it is hardly important, because reading your OP led me to think you have a different implication than that question you asked, but consider these possible reasons: Perhaps Jesus, being the Son of God, knowing the past, present and future, knew exactly when the moment to perform Miracles. Say, for example, if he started doing miracles at the age of 12, he probably would have garnished too much attention from the officials/high priests, and things would have turned out differently. Just a thought.

Think about it.

P.S - No Bible Verses used, OP.



Originally posted by jtap66
The sooner you realize that it's impossible to look at Christianity from the perspective of logic, the better off you'll be.


It seems I just used logic to look at Christianity, and did so without circular logic that Atheists claim we use. Impossible? No my friend, it seems as if you have a superiority complex, and quickly denounce Christians in any related thread you come across.

Try again.
edit on 3-9-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by freespirit1
 


Isn't there a big gap about Jesus between the time he was young until he started preaching. What happen in between this time. I always found that gap in the bible questionable.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 




Thank you for staying on topic. I was about to post the samething. I think Jesus had to take care of his family until his brothers were of age before starting preaching and traveling. Star for you amigo.


ETA: Not every question about religion has to be answered with scripture, we also have to look at the culture, customs, language, history and the time period of the people that wrote those scriptures to fully understand them.

edit on 3-9-2011 by Dembow because: That last part.




posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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Jesus was just prophet... black one(negro if U like)... "they" just use his name cos he was known and accepted by a lot of people in his time in mid. east... he never did any miracles... miracles made by him are stories made by humans who want control other humans... most of the stories in the bible about Jesus are writen many years after his death... why? if U are not stupid U will figure it out***



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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Answer to the OP question: Jesus had to wait until He was thirty because that was the age you had to reach to be a Rabbi under the law.

The other comment about Jesus being or not being the Son of God: uh, that's why they crucified Him...they thought He was blaspheming, when He was simply telling the truth, which He had to do to remain sinless.

For those of you who do not believe in the Trinity, please click on my name and review the Trinity information.


edit on 9/3/2011 by Jim Scott because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by freespirit1
 


1. First off, 'Jesus' never existed, that name is only 400 years old. Yahuwshuwah existed thats a fact, and He was Hebrew not Latin,Greek or English, get it straight.
2. The Bible aka The Scriptures, has no contradictions in it. The translated versions from the original Hebrew and Greek texts are worded poorly, but the Original texts are perfect.
3. What is your question really, what do you mean why did he wait? Do you just tell someone the answer without them asking for it first? Do you automatically give someone things they dont need without them seeking for it? The Messiah Yahuwshuwah didnt come down to earth to show off the power He was given from the Father. He was there to save His lost sheep, and by showing them signs that prove He was the Son of Alahym, or Yahuwah. And the Heavenly Father Yahuwah, has been showing His miracles and signs through His prophets of old, and other set-apart messengers throughout all the Old Testament. So in fact, your question is invalid, He didnt wait, He was only repeating what has already happened.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by puzzlesphere
 



I agree that Jesus never uttered the exact phrase "I am God", but he did suggest it, and never denied it when others asked it of him...


He did deny it... he completely corrected a group of Jews about to stone him for "making himself God"

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

One can't deny he was the son of God according to the bible. He said it many times.... But never once did he claim to be God... And he denys it right there... IF the man never lied... that solves this ongoing issue.

And buddy stateing that he "made that claim many times" is a blatant lie.




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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My guess would be, and this is only speculation, that he could have performed miracles that were not recorded. I'm sure he didn't make a public spectacle out of them, since that was not what he was about. The miracles, to my knowledge, were only recorded because of his disciples. I could be wrong on that, but it makes sense.

Or it could be, as a poster on the first page mentioned, that he had to learn a certain amount here on Earth. Spiritual growth. Even if you know what it is about, you must spend time actually doing it to be able to reach your goals.

Just because he was the son of God does not mean he was born performing miracles. Humans are capable of so much more than most even imagine, but we cannot do those things from birth.

Note that I am not using this post to argue whether Jesus existed, or whether he was the son of God, rather I am simply answering your question as per your criteria. I am simply providing possibilities, and not facts by any means.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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I am son of man.....I am God....he lives through me as his child.....you are too.....



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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Consider this text... its quite possible he did miracles as an infant....

The child kills and performs miracles...


On a certain day when there had fallen a shower of rain he went forth of the house where his mother was and played upon the ground where the waters were running: and he made pools, and the waters flowed down, and the pools were filled with water. Then saith he: I will that ye become clean and wholesome waters. And straightway they did so. 2 But a certain son of Annas the scribe passed by bearing a branch of willow, and he overthrew the pools with the branch, and the waters were poured out. And Jesus turned about and said unto him: O ungodly and disobedient one, what hurt have the pools done thee that thou hast emptied them? Thou shalt not finish thy course, and thou shalt be withered up even as the branch which thou hast in hand. 3 And he went on, and after a little he fell and gave up the ghost. And when the young children that played with him saw it, they marvelled and departed and told the father of him that was dead. And he ran and found the child dead, and went and accused Joseph.

III. 1 Now Jesus made of that clay twelve sparrows: and it was the Sabbath day. And a child ran and told Joseph, saying: Behold, thy child playeth about the brook, and hath made sparrows of the clay, which is not lawful. 2 And he when he heard it went and said to the child: Wherefore doest thou so and profaneth the Sabbath? But Jesus answered him not, but looked upon the sparrows and said: Go ye, take your flight, and remember me in your life. And at the word they took flight and went up into the air. And when Joseph saw it he was astonished.

IV. 1 And after certain days, as Jesus passed through the midst of the city, a certain child cast a stone at him and smote his shoulder. And Jesus said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course. And straightway he also fell down and died. And they that were there were amazed, saying: From whence is this child, that every word which he speaketh becometh a perfect work? 2 But they also departed and accused Joseph, saying: Thou wilt not be able to dwell with us in this city: but if thou wilt, teach thy child to bless and not to curse: for verily he slayeth our children: and every thing that he saith becometh a perfect work.

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

Quite obvious why it was left out of the bible... aside from the date of the text and the authors identity. It shows that Jesus was not completely sinless, he had to learn just like everyone else.

Interesting eh



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


You wrote:

["It doesn't take a genius to know that people die for their beliefs all the time, which is shown with Heaven's Gate. However, people will not die for a known lie. Do you think the people who killed themselves for Heaven's Gate would have done so if they KNEW, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, THAT THEY WERE WRONG?"]

People commit various forms of suicides on ideological grounds regularly.

Quote: ["Therefore, it is logical to assume that if Jesus was NOTHING MORE THAN A MAN, the Apostles would have known it WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that Jesus was nothing more than a MAN."]

Only CHRISTIAN 'logic'.

Quote: ["It seems I just used logic to look at Christianity, and did so without circular logic that Atheists claim we use."]

No, you just pulled out christian 'logic' from nowhere.

Quote: ["No my friend, it seems as if you have a superiority complex, and quickly denounce Christians in any related thread you come across."]

Character-analyses of this kind have no relevance to even the slightest rational approach to topics.



edit on 4-9-2011 by bogomil because: grammar



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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The apostles did know Jesus was only a man(albeit a prophet and the messiah), they knew Jesus told them to worship the ONE who sent him, and not to worship Jesus. Christians have lost the plot a bit these days, Jesus clearly didnt worship himself(or a thrid of himself), he worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD who sent him



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Lionhearte
 

People commit various forms of suicides on ideological grounds regularly.

Completely ignored my point. I already stated that people die for their beliefs all the time, but they will NOT die for a KNOWN LIE. The Apostles must have either have complete confirmation that Jesus was either A) a lie, a fraud, just a man, etc. or B) the Son of God.


Only CHRISTIAN 'logic'.

No, you just pulled out christian 'logic' from nowhere.


"Christian Logic" is just a term someone uses as a derogatory term for us, it holds no merit.

If the Apostles knew he was just a man, that would mean all his teachings were BS, so they wouldn't have gone through such great lengths to spread the Word of God after the resurrection. Tell me, why is it that before Christ was killed, the Apostles went from such lowly, shameful human beings (Peter himself denied Christ 3 times), to valiant and courageous men of God after his death? Do you think if they found out He was a fraud, they would have done so? No, use your own head for once. They would have went back to their lives. They wouldn't have suffered persecution and death for a known lie.

I don't know of ANYONE who would do such a thing.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 



Completely ignored my point. I already stated that people die for their beliefs all the time, but they will NOT die for a KNOWN LIE. The Apostles must have either have complete confirmation that Jesus was either A) a lie, a fraud, just a man, etc. or B) the Son of God.


Or C) A Wizard?


"Christian Logic" is just a term someone uses as a derogatory term for us, it holds no merit.


No, it really is a term that's growing credibility. An example of such logic is:-

Bible says so>Therefore credible. Even though primary evidence is lacking, and the intentions of the writers are not known.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Haxsaw
The apostles did know Jesus was only a man(albeit a prophet and the messiah), they knew Jesus told them to worship the ONE who sent him, and not to worship Jesus. Christians have lost the plot a bit these days, Jesus clearly didnt worship himself(or a thrid of himself), he worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD who sent him


Jesus makes several great claims concerning himself in the scriptures, He said he was equal in God in Nature, in Power, and in Authority. In John 5, Jesus himself states;


19 - I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son also does.

22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgement to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.


Also, referring to the Apostles believing he was just a man, see my above post here.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


People never take into account that Jesus's own brothers affirmed and worshiped Him as Lord also. And not when He was alive, but Jude and James became believers after the resurrection.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


You wrote:

["Completely ignored my point. I already stated that people die for their beliefs all the time, but they will NOT die for a KNOWN LIE. The Apostles must have either have complete confirmation that Jesus was either A) a lie, a fraud, just a man, etc. or B) the Son of God."]

And how do you decide, if a "known lie" is a "KNOWN lie", a "known LIE" or a "KNOWN LIE" to anyone implicated in martyrdom etc. It sounds like another circle-argument with the only constant factor being that of people willing to die because of faith (in any ideology).

Quote: [" "Christian Logic" is just a term someone uses as a derogatory term for us, it holds no merit."]

Whether you like it or not, the word 'logic' has semantic 'copyrights' (as defined linguistically), and this definition doesn't included the common christian misuse of the concept.

Quote: ["If the Apostles knew he was just a man, that would mean all his teachings were BS, so they wouldn't have gone through such great lengths to spread the Word of God after the resurrection."]

This is basically a repetition of your recent claim with new details. And as answered before, but suited to your new version of the same postulate-type: Fanatics from every position go to great lengths to proselytize.

Quote: ["Tell me, why is it that before Christ was killed, the Apostles went from such lowly, shameful human beings (Peter himself denied Christ 3 times), to valiant and courageous men of God after his death?"]

I doubt if anyone, based on a self-fullfilling 2.000 year old mythology, could create a sound psychological profile of any of the characters, specifying the psychological mechanisms and even less put anything 'divine' etc into the situation.

But if you want evidenced, contemporary examples of individuals of having such 'conversions' taking place, we only have to look at Hitler, who in a matter of 10-20 minutes could perform such mental stunts Described by the english ambassador in Germany at that time, who for a short while became 'converted' himself. As english quickly being deconditioned, while millions of germans stayed conditioned.

Quote: [" No, use your own head for once."]

Please keep a decent standard, and avoid comments based on illwilled non-knowledge.

Quote: ["They would have went back to their lives. They wouldn't have suffered persecution and death for a known lie. I don't know of ANYONE who would do such a thing."]

I do know of such people, though never with a person-to-person contact.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Lionhearte
 


People never take into account that Jesus's own brothers affirmed and worshiped Him as Lord also. And not when He was alive, but Jude and James became believers after the resurrection.


According to the pauline version. As you may remember, a lot of people don't accept the premises you use.



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