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Originally posted by freespirit1
I have no doubt that Jesus existed. However, if he was truly the son of God, why did he wait until he was in his thirties to start preaching and working "miracles"?
I don't want a bunch of quoted scriptures from the bible, I just want some thought put into this.... Jesus DID exist, but I have a hard time believing that he was the son of God. Just "because the bible says so" isn't enough for me.
So many people over the course of history have different beliefs, and the bible contradicts itself over and over again- How do you know that you are not following the teachings of a prophet rather than the real deal????
Originally posted by jtap66
The sooner you realize that it's impossible to look at Christianity from the perspective of logic, the better off you'll be.
I agree that Jesus never uttered the exact phrase "I am God", but he did suggest it, and never denied it when others asked it of him...
On a certain day when there had fallen a shower of rain he went forth of the house where his mother was and played upon the ground where the waters were running: and he made pools, and the waters flowed down, and the pools were filled with water. Then saith he: I will that ye become clean and wholesome waters. And straightway they did so. 2 But a certain son of Annas the scribe passed by bearing a branch of willow, and he overthrew the pools with the branch, and the waters were poured out. And Jesus turned about and said unto him: O ungodly and disobedient one, what hurt have the pools done thee that thou hast emptied them? Thou shalt not finish thy course, and thou shalt be withered up even as the branch which thou hast in hand. 3 And he went on, and after a little he fell and gave up the ghost. And when the young children that played with him saw it, they marvelled and departed and told the father of him that was dead. And he ran and found the child dead, and went and accused Joseph.
III. 1 Now Jesus made of that clay twelve sparrows: and it was the Sabbath day. And a child ran and told Joseph, saying: Behold, thy child playeth about the brook, and hath made sparrows of the clay, which is not lawful. 2 And he when he heard it went and said to the child: Wherefore doest thou so and profaneth the Sabbath? But Jesus answered him not, but looked upon the sparrows and said: Go ye, take your flight, and remember me in your life. And at the word they took flight and went up into the air. And when Joseph saw it he was astonished.
IV. 1 And after certain days, as Jesus passed through the midst of the city, a certain child cast a stone at him and smote his shoulder. And Jesus said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course. And straightway he also fell down and died. And they that were there were amazed, saying: From whence is this child, that every word which he speaketh becometh a perfect work? 2 But they also departed and accused Joseph, saying: Thou wilt not be able to dwell with us in this city: but if thou wilt, teach thy child to bless and not to curse: for verily he slayeth our children: and every thing that he saith becometh a perfect work.
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Lionhearte
People commit various forms of suicides on ideological grounds regularly.
Only CHRISTIAN 'logic'.
No, you just pulled out christian 'logic' from nowhere.
Completely ignored my point. I already stated that people die for their beliefs all the time, but they will NOT die for a KNOWN LIE. The Apostles must have either have complete confirmation that Jesus was either A) a lie, a fraud, just a man, etc. or B) the Son of God.
"Christian Logic" is just a term someone uses as a derogatory term for us, it holds no merit.
Originally posted by Haxsaw
The apostles did know Jesus was only a man(albeit a prophet and the messiah), they knew Jesus told them to worship the ONE who sent him, and not to worship Jesus. Christians have lost the plot a bit these days, Jesus clearly didnt worship himself(or a thrid of himself), he worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD who sent him
19 - I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgement to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Lionhearte
People never take into account that Jesus's own brothers affirmed and worshiped Him as Lord also. And not when He was alive, but Jude and James became believers after the resurrection.