Give me your list of the Top 10 air forces of the world. We'll discuss this topic after the lists have been submitted.

I will give #1, since there is no question:

1. United States Air Force

off random site on internet:



Hmm...I'd rank them as such on 1-10, with 1 being the best and 10 just being pretty damn good. (In cases where the country has a naval air arm, I'll combine that in the final score.)

1--US. Just no argument here. With a good pool of war-trained pilots, the unmatched ability to project power globally, and excellent hardware, the US is the one to beat.

2-France. France has one fleet carrier (despite its problems) and a proven history of knowing how to use them. They also have a strategic bomber force--sure, it's Mirage 2000s armed with cruise missiles, but it's there. Both the Aeronavale and the Armee de l'Air have a reputation for competence. They also have AWACS.

3-UK. Just behind the French because of questions regarding air defense (the Tornado F.3 still has problems) and the uncertain future of the Harrier carriers. Other than that, they also have very skilled pilots with combat experience, along with AWACS support (don't forget the Sentry AEW.1s, Strategist).

4--Russia. Slowly coming back from near collapse, the Russians have proven they can still project power in Europe and Asia, and are one of only three nations (the others being the US and China) with strategic bombers. Also armed with quality designs, where the Russians are hurt is lack of pilot training, though they do have a thin edge of elite pilots.

5--Israel. With the reputation of aerial skill rivaled only by the US (the Israelis haven't lost air superiority since 1948), the Heyl Ha'avir is constantly adding new technology. They are in the number 5 position only because they lack the ability to project power like the US, France, UK, and Russia.

6--India. The IAF is also rapidly getting new tech and becoming the air force to beat in Asia. They also have a carrier, and if things continue in this trend, could surpass Israel in the near future.

7--People's Republic of China. I'd have ranked them lower, but the PLAAF is steadily revamping their pilot training program, adding new tech, and downsizing a bloated bureaucracy. The PLAAF is getting scarier every year, and rank below Israel and India only because they have yet to prove themselves in modern combat.

8--Japan. The JASDF is getting a much-needed update, and also have a good reputation. They also have a superb tech base.

9--Brazil. No one's really been paying much attention to Brazil, but the FAB isn't half bad. They too have a carrier, even if it's old, and the AMX is an excellent aircraft. Their Mirages are getting a little long in the tooth.

10--Italy. Hey, don't forget the AMI. They're only slightly smaller than France's air force, and they haven't undergone the same sort of budget slashing that the RAF and the Luftwaffe (who would be number 11) have. Replacing their leased Tornado F.3s with F-16s was a pretty good move, as it allowed them to finally replace their ancient F-104s, and gives Italy a viable air defense while they wait for the Typhoon.

Interesting list. I was surprised to see Russia on the list, because technically, Russia no longer has an air force. They can't even service these awesome weapons.

I see Russia as more of a vendor rather than a force. It's gotten to the point they have to pretty much go isolationist because they really can't contend anymore.

Assuming the current trend continues, Russia's air force (not the Russian Air Force) could be out of contention within the next generation.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Interesting list. I was surprised to see Russia on the list, because technically, Russia no longer has an air force. They can't even service these awesome weapons.

I see Russia as more of a vendor rather than a force. It's gotten to the point they have to pretty much go isolationist because they really can't contend anymore.

Assuming the current trend continues, Russia's air force (not the Russian Air Force) could be out of contention within the next generation.

Yeah Russia sells ALOT. Thats a good source of revenue for them but it wont last. For instance lets say china buys there newest fighter, I doubt China will go back to them in a decade for there next gen fighter simply because china will of used all that technology from the other jet and make there own fighter and improve apon that for there next gen fighter.

So I hope Russia doesn't keep heavily relying on arm deals from other counties to much, but terrorist will always want stuff cause they can't make there own, so i guess Russia will become a Terrorist weapons dealer.

Russia's place as a vendor is one of the oldest things ofm the 20th century. Even when it was the world's most powerful military force, it was still the biggest vendor. But never was it more vital than now.

Like you say, it won't last. With China taking the helm pretty soon, Russia may actually be on a decline.

This is a real risky assessment, but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia ceased to be a threat.

don't discount Russia as they have some excellent planes in service and many of their weapons the west hasn't developed counterparts to.

I do agree with you though that Russia has been isolationist (on a world and military stage) since the collapse of the Soviet Union, however it is getting back on its feet and is starting to slowly move out of its isolationist period since Putin has at least put the country back on the right track.

Dont put faith in 5th Generation planes because I guarantee you they won't be the mainstay of any airforce for a long time

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 22-8-2004 by drfunk]

India certainly deserves No.2 atleast for 2004 after comprehensively outclassing the US in recent air exercises.

BTW : India just got AWACS this year in addition to recieving a new delivery of 50 Su-30MKI's (Su-37 equivalent name) in addition to acquiring 70 Advanced Jet Trainers in addition to placing orders for Su-34bombers in addition to placing orders for Naval Flankers for its Navy's new Aircraft Carrier in addition to increasing its Defence budget by 20%.

[edit on 22-8-2004 by Stealth Spy]

good point Stealth Spy and I would like to say that this does highlight the volatility and usefulness of contemporary Russian fighters against Western planes.

"I would like to say that this does highlight the volatility and usefulness of contemporary Russian fighters against Western planes."


I sign at the bottom

Titus, not a bad order. I would change it a little:

1) US
2) UK
3) Russia
4) France
5) Isreal
6) Australia (the quality of thier pilots and training is superb. If they buy the F-18E then they will be that much better, not to mention the JSF
7) China
8)Tie: Japan, Sweden, Italy

hehe Aussie pilots are great but we haven't got that many combat jets to be considered a top airforce!!!

Our upgraded F-111s are in a class of their own at what they do and they do great at Red Flag.

Meh, I might get a lil carried away by nationalistic pride so i better stop now.

I think it's foolish for anyone to discount Russian fighters.

Many Americans hate to admit it, but Russian fighters are, in many way, highly superior to American fighters. Always have been. Russian fighters are better-built for ACM, which is why the Su-30s defeated the American F-15Cs.

However, the threat I don't think comes from Russia, but more from the nations that buy such planes and are creating world-class militaries. These nations are India, China, and even Pakistan.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Many Americans hate to admit it, but Russian fighters are, in many way, highly superior to American fighters. Always have been. Russian fighters are better-built for ACM, which is why the Su-30s defeated the American F-15Cs.

Actually the recent mock battle between the Indian Su-30MMK's and the F-15c was at long range and not a dog fight. Also, the F-15's were not equipped with the new ESRA Radar. Speculation is tha the AF set up conditions that they new the F-15C would fail in hopes of bolstering the case for the F-22.

I agree with you that the Russians make good planes and thier airforce with all thioer supply troubles still is a force to be reconed with. You will note I placed them 3rd on my list.

You're right--Russia has a history of the most varied and extensive air force in the world. The reason: the Russians did not do as we Americans do, that is, develop our aircraft to the point of near-perfection. Instead, the Russians made their planes (generally at least) cheaper, which allowed a far greater amount to be built in comparison to the more expensive US planes. Although since the end of the Cold War Russia has not been blowing up its defense programs, it should not be discounted.
I do not know enough detail on each country's air force to give an accurate this-is-better-than-that list, so I will simply give an estimate in three tiers.

Before all, IRAQ! (oh, wait, the Iraqi AF doesn't exist)

First Tier:
1. USA -- money, size, experience, edge in technology
2. UK -- been working alongside USA for VERY long time
3. RUS -- I would like to see another air force attempt to beat Russia's even in its present state of economic uncertainty. If upgraded, would only be inferior to the USA because of its size.

Second Tier:

4. Israel -- while not as large as some of the others, Israel has an outstanding record (why? ) against impossible odds.
5. China -- like the US and Russia, it has resources, people, and size. Soon, I think it will be number two or number three
6. India -- large country, fine AF, but climbing out of economic disaster
7. France -- still keeping its military up-to-date within its means
8. Australia -- I know they haven't had as much opportunity to show off, but reports say they are not bad at all

Third Tier: (Hmm. The tough task of placing the best of the rest)
8. Italy -- still keeping up
9. Japan -- who makes all the electronics?
10. Two contenders:
Germany -- despite post WWII "non-militarization," retains population, and industrial might;
OR
North Korea -- I dunno, just guessing; who knows, the Russians may have sold them all of their Black Shark 'copters and other hardware.

Realistically, of course, a good analysis takes painstaking research and insider information; I believe, however, that the best air force would combine the strengths of and differences between the major air forces of the world.

[edit on 22-8-2004 by MoleMan]

Mig29's scare the **** out of F18 pilots

Mole Man,

Wow. That's a pretty complete list!

And no, North Korea is not a bad choice. Fact is, most people don't understand them that well to make a good judgment. But just by looking at them on the surface, you can sort of draw the conclusion they've got an air force above the average nation.

I feel like the world's most underrated air forces may in fact be those of the Middle East. Yes, they aren't the best equipped, but let's face it, their "small-ball" method and combat experience (which is more than America's) is something to highly consider.

Just to give an idea, Iran and Iraq had two of the world's best air forces in the world in the 1980s!