US Air Force gets first exposure to Sukhoi-30s

"IAF pilots test skills against USAF"
in.rediff.com...

As American F-15 fighters sliced through the blue sky of Gwalior in the company of India's Russian-made Sukhoi-30s, they smashed yet another wall of suspicion between the superpower and the South Asian giant.

The air forces of the two countries are holding their first ever joint air combat exercise, which began on February 16, in 40 years in the background of taboos and secrets on both sides.
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Planned over two years back and worked to the smallest detail, the exercise gave the US Air Force its first exposure to the Sukhoi-30s, the latest fighter jet to roll out of the aviation factories of Russia.

Either side is not disclosing the exact capabilities and range of their fighters. Indian pilots and other personnel did get to take a good look at the F-15C Eagles but only at designated times while American pilots got to fly on the trainer version of the Sukhois.
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The Commanding Officer of the Indian squadron Wing Commander S K Jha said his pilots did not find their US counterparts to be 'much different' on a professional basis "but obviously the US is at the cutting edge of technology."

Air Marshal Bhavnani says the aims and objectives of the exercise have been achieved and a large number of Indian pilots - who fly SU-30s, Mirage 2000s, MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27 and MiG-29 fighters - got unprecedented exposure to the US fighters.

The IAF admits the USAF is technologically advanced but claims its pilots can match the latter's on a tactical basis.

Another article written on this gives a bit more detail, in that it mentions that the IAF will gain exposure to the USAF's F-16's and F-22's.

"Indian, US pilots match skills"
www.hinduonnet.com...

Rounding off a 10 day hectic first ever joint fighter exercises with the USAF F-15 Eagles, Air Marshal Ajit Bhavnani and American officials indicated that in the coming months the scope of such fighter exercises would be expanded to include the US force's mainstay F-16 fighter Falcons as well as the just rolled out F-22.

More links to some awesome PICTURES:
www2.hickam.af.mil...
story.news.yahoo.com.../040221/481/xdel10302211547
www.deccanherald.com...
www.deccanherald.com...
www.af.mil...
www.af.mil...


With the increasing ties between India and the US, its apparent that India's central geographical location, between the Middle East and China, that India demands respect and attention. It is also something that China has not let go unknown nor unseen.

Of note, India, as of late, has also significantly increased ties with Israel.

In such and in regards to the varied aircraft used, how do you think they matched up....F-15C versus Su-30K's and MKI's?
Both are beautiful aircraft and neither is to be underestimated in the sky... awesome stuff. I hope they give an idea of the results of this training, and meeting --Cope India 04-- and the match outcomes.



regards
seekerof

[edit on 19-6-2004 by Seekerof]

Thanks. Good post..

YEs Very good post.

I'd give you an award for the month...but my 3 votes have already disappeared...
Maybe next month ;P

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by DaRAGE]

Yes Seekerof...
Excellent post... I look forward to hearing PiReps from the US pilots who flew the SU's....

Let me just remind you that this is far from total technical evaluation and isnt actually unheard.. as USAF pilots have already been on board advanced Flankers of Russian airforces.. (during simulated air to air combats vs. USAF F-15s, which btw, Russians won hands down..) and.. its known secret that USAF actually has some Flankers.. bought from Belarus / Ukraine..

Originally posted by FULCRUM
USAF pilots have already been on board advanced Flankers of Russian airforces.. (during simulated air to air combats vs. USAF F-15s, which btw, Russians won hands down..) ..

Love to see a link on this Fulcrum...
no... not because i'm an arrogant amerikan and i don't believe you, i just want more details...
link wiil be good in either english or russian - i read both...
thanks~
by the way - love the penguin avatar.

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by intelgurl]

I have thing described in some english (language) Aviation magazine, most likely Air Forces monthly.. But.. i have hudreds, if not thousands of magazines.. and no scanner..

So, heres something from online:

--

Speaking afterwards with a local newspaper reporter about which aircraft was better, the American pilots, hiding a certain embarrassment, noted that both fighters were good and had more or less similar performances. But when speaking with their Russian opposite numbers and technical experts, they acknowledged the unsurpassed superiority of the Su-27. The Eagle failed to get on the Flanker's tail while Maj. Karabasov's vigorous manoeuvring allowed him to keep the F-15 in his sights nearly all the time. The mock combat ended after several unsuccessful attempts by the F-15's pilot to change the situation for the better."

--

Here (below) is a link of a kind.. and the magazine i have said that USAF refused to fly anymore simulated A2A with em cause they were ashamed cause the Russians beat them.. but it must be noted that the Russian pilots were among the best in Russia, Sukhois test pilots..

--

www.duffeyk.fsnet.co.uk...

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by FULCRUM]

Isnt that the most advanced Russian plane? Or am I wrong?

Originally posted by Laxpla
Isnt that the most advanced Russian plane? Or am I wrong?

Your wrong..

Theres others more advanced, flown and being designed.. but IT IS THE MOST ADVANCED SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE EXPORTED..

But.. Indias SU-30s have had all kinds of problems.. with Indians not being up to the task of operating these complex machines and also the Russians "sold" them systems and weapons that had not been perfected at time of their sale..

*Edit*

Btw, nice color system..

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by FULCRUM]

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Here (below) is a link of a kind.. and the magazine i have said that USAF refused to fly anymore simulated A2A with em cause they were ashamed cause the Russians beat them.. but it must be noted that the Russian pilots were among the best in Russia, Sukhois test pilots..

--

www.duffeyk.fsnet.co.uk...

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by FULCRUM]

Fulcrum...
sweetie...
The link you provided actually debunks Andrei Fomin's story about the Su-27's blowing away the F-15's during a DACT exercise - saying the claim is a Russian urban legend.
Do you have another link with more info?

Even if they were equal, how would the F-22 fair.............I bet you can guess.

Originally posted by FULCRUM

Originally posted by Laxpla
Isnt that the most advanced Russian plane? Or am I wrong?

Your wrong..

Theres others more advanced, flown and being designed.. but IT IS THE MOST ADVANCED SYSTEM THAT THEY HAVE EXPORTED..

But.. Indias SU-30s have had all kinds of problems.. with Indians not being up to the task of operating these complex machines and also the Russians "sold" them systems and weapons that had not been perfected at time of their sale..

*Edit*

Btw, nice color system..

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by FULCRUM]

What are you trying to say about my color system? What is the point of posting that when the material you are discussing are not on topic, and before you post a topic, check your color scheme. Now, what kind of problems did India have with there Russian exported SU's?

I'm with Intelgurl.....

What is it? Two, maybe three F-15 Eagles lost to hostile acts in over 25+years of service?

Correct me if I am wrong, but considering it's age, the Eagle has preformed above and beyond the call.....

I hope the F-22 can fill those gigantic shoes.
*shaq sized ones

Originally posted by intelgurl
Fulcrum...
sweetie...
The link you provided actually debunks Andrei Fomin's story about the Su-27's blowing away the F-15's during a DACT exercise - saying the claim is a Russian urban legend.
Do you have another link with more info?

Hun,

It does not.. what it says that what is writen in a BOOK, and adds somebodys bogus claims to counter it..

Now what do you belive in..?

Also, it mentiones the "Air Forces Monthly Magazines" article, which said that Flanker and Russian pilots proved supperior. Which stands correct.. and also.. i have the issue..

And anyhow, it was DACM (dogfight training) so most of the things this "Murph" claims dont even matter..

Also there a pages long article on Air Forces Montly (again) in which they put SU-30 and F-15 C/D to head to haed and compare em, the final solution is that SU-30 if as well operated and maintained as F-15s in general, it would prove impossible to beat. And concludes that luckily USA is getting the F-22 to counter vs. like SU-30.

I see what your saying dear...

well I hope you can see where I'm coming from, the link you provided took me to a debunk of the incident - whether believable or not - it is there and that's all I had to go on...
and the debunk does make sense, I'll have to admit that- but then I'm not a fighter pilot so I can only go by what info I can glean from others..

And I'm not sure I understand the logic of - if it's in a book it's got to be true - I know of many books that are full of poop from cover to cover... But fortunately I do know of Andrei Fomin.

I'm glad all these countries are seeing a plane that will be extinct in a few years.

The F-22 will be the fighter that everyone tries to live up to for many years to come.
Hopefully the JSF will get their kinks worked out so we won't just have the F-22 to brag about.

It's laughable to hear about the Indian pilots thinking they are at par with American pilots. LMFAO literally. he he

Just a bit more updating on this, I ran across these:

"USAF saves Gwalior from IAF 'attack'"
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

"Indian, US pilots size each other up"
www.newindpress.com...

Excerpt:

"Over the weekend, USAF pilots convened an urgent meeting for a brainstorming session to work out the tactics to deal with the SU-30K.

``It surprised them,'' says an IAF pilot, adding: ``I don't think they were expecting that kind of performance''.

Dave Skalicky would agree with him. He has flown over the Taj Mahal, seen the Himalayas and come back to Gwlaior, several joint exercises later, with a new-found respect for his Indian counterparts. His colleagues have had a ``few rides on the SU-30K and the MiG-21 Bison''.

About the much-talked about MiG-21, he says: ``It's very good and we were surprised with its new avionics''.

On Wednesday morning, as four USAF 15C took to the skies to ``defend'' the Gwalior air base against ``invading'' IAF strike aircraft, both had a ``mission'' in hand. Forty minutes later, Gwalior was ``bombed'' by an IAF MiG-27 escorted by a fleet of SU-30Ks and Mirage-2000s.

The joint exercise, which ends on February 27, have given the IAF, starved of exposure for nearly three decades, an opportunity to pit its skills against the US Air Force's."

"Cope India 04 Report"
www.af.mil...

Excerpt:

"Following two days of familiarization flights, the F-15s joined the Indian SU-30K Flanker, Mirage 2000, MIG-29 Fulcrum, MIG-27 Flogger and MIG-21 Bison aircraft in a series of offensive counter-air and defensive counter-air engagements.

Each engagement series lasts about 30 minutes over the nearby training range, and two series are scheduled each flying day, said Capt. Mark Snowden, U.S. exercise project officer. During nearly all these simulated combat sorties, the F-15s protect ground targets against advancing Indian aircraft -- the two will swap roles during one series."


Still trying to find some "score cards" on the engagements that had/have taken place within this exercise. Nothing as of yet.



regards
seekerof

All i can says its this: Internationally, skills of Indian pilots are ranked quite high and Pakistanis (although not a topic of discussion here) have proved themself even better, IN COMBAT..

And intelgurl,

If the "story" (the Russian side of it..) has been published in Air Forces Monthly (and it is..) its bound to be ~100% fact, you would know this if you would be familiar with the magazine.. as it is qualitity magazine directed to serious people and to professionals of the "business"..

The SU-30 is fairly new......
The F-15 is being retired within a few years.....

The jury is out until the F-22 shows up to play.

Originally posted by Facefirst
The SU-30 is fairly new......
The F-15 is being retired within a few years.....

The jury is out until the F-22 shows up to play.

Not really, as the F-22 is new gen compared to SU-30, so the Jury is out when USA has F-22 and JSF, and Russia has LFI and PAK-FA.. as those are supposed to equal each others..