Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Mole Man,

Wow. That's a pretty complete list!

And no, North Korea is not a bad choice. Fact is, most people don't understand them that well to make a good judgment. But just by looking at them on the surface, you can sort of draw the conclusion they've got an air force above the average nation.

I feel like the world's most underrated air forces may in fact be those of the Middle East. Yes, they aren't the best equipped, but let's face it, their "small-ball" method and combat experience (which is more than America's) is something to highly consider.

Just to give an idea, Iran and Iraq had two of the world's best air forces in the world in the 1980s!

yeah iraq was supposed to have one of the best armies before the gul wars

Originally posted by DarkSide


yeah iraq was supposed to have one of the best armies before the gul wars

im sorry i couldnt leave this along but mabye they did but when you get ganged up on it doesnt matter how good you are really its about numbers.

Originally posted by FredT
Titus, not a bad order. I would change it a little:

1) US
2) UK
3) Russia
4) France
5) Isreal
6) Australia (the quality of thier pilots and training is superb. If they buy the F-18E then they will be that much better, not to mention the JSF
7) China
8)Tie: Japan, Sweden, Italy

It's hard to place a lot of these air forces as they all have specific strengths and weaknesses. the UK probably just get's second place but not by much.

The F3 is certainly no dogfighter, but as the Falklands shows, having faster and "fighter" designed-aircraft does not dictate the battle. F3 with AMRAAM and ASRAAM is now an extremely well-armed aircraft and with Sentry backup and excellent C4I, it's a lot better than most in battle.

GR4 is the fastest low-level bomber in the world which certainly helps, especially when you consider it's weaponry: Storm Shadow, Paveway and ALARM certainly give it punch.

The UK has a decent support system for it's front-line aircraft which a lot of air forces fall short on: things like Nimrod, Sentry, AAR, SAR, ASTOR coming in.

You could demote it to third or fourth. France have a far superior fighter in Rafale (the few it has) and also has Storm Shadow (not nearly as many), but it lacks as good backup as the RAF has and Rafale generally get's weaker missiles than F3 has. Also add the fact that French pilots don't often get combat time.

Russia through numbers and excellent fighters certainly have a case.

Until Eurofighter comes in (which ends the argument) it's a tough call.

[edit on 22-8-2004 by Cjwinnit]

[edit on 22-8-2004 by Cjwinnit]

im sorry i couldnt leave this along but mabye they did but when you get ganged up on it doesnt matter how good you are really its about numbers

The Iraqis outnumbered America and the UN forces (who were in small numbers anyway) 2:1.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The Iraqis outnumbered America and the UN forces (who were in small numbers anyway) 2:1.

We were talking about the Iran-Iraq War, not the Persian Gulf War.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


The Iraqis outnumbered America and the UN forces (who were in small numbers anyway) 2:1.

yeah and i meant when your ganged up on by the worlds best and most technologically advanced countires then numbers is your only advantage.

To SweatMonicaIdo and others on the Iran-Iraq Near East "thread",

Thanks for the compliment; I thought I would just put in my two cents' worth, and then I started really thinking about various countries and the reasons for placing them.
Ah! I had not thought of the Middle Eastern forces; I don't really know much about them other than that they are, in the words of a writer, "determined fighters", and that they have been supplied (for the most part, I think) by the former Soviet Union. However, it does stand to reason that their hardware is at least somewhat old-fashioned (though entirely not dismissable), since the Russians would not like to give away anything really new or top.

To all,

I agree. It is difficult to determine which powers' air forces are exactly the best, since so many factors are involved. But at least we collectively can still estimate these top ten or so.
Next comes my question, what exactly are the criteria we should consider before we give our vote? Size, experience, technology, training, diversity, intelligence--some nations excel in certain areas where others are lacking, and vice versa. For example, Israel's is definitely a world best, if considering only quality, experience, intelligence, etc., while discounting the fact that it is much smaller than, say, China's.

Regards,
MoleMan
(and, no, am I NOT a KGB intelligents offitser ("mole") even zough I go by ze name ov Sergey Izmailovich Kochanov j/k)

[edit on 26-8-2004 by MoleMan]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
India certainly deserves No.2 atleast for 2004 after comprehensively outclassing the US in recent air exercises.

What air excercises were these ? I can't imagine the Indian air force giving the US a run for its money
India's air force is second rate, they are only capable of taking on Pakistan. China and Russia have superiority over India albeit a minor one.

There were joint exerises where Indian Sukhoi's and Mirages defeated US F-15's in war games. As it turns out, these F-15's were not equiped with the new radar which is on all of our front line F-15's.

The reasons why they were not equiped is unknown but one can only speculate it was AF posturing for more Raptors.

As far as India's AF, they are not second rate, and actually have more advanced Russian aircraft then China does

Originally posted by American Mad Man

As far as India's AF, they are not second rate, and actually have more advanced Russian aircraft then China does

Statistics please

I would say....

1. USA
2. Russia - They are increaseing there military expenature by 50%= more training
3. UK
4. India - Has worlds one of the finest pilots

I dont know about the others. But I know that China shouldnt be in the top 7 cause they arent very well trained.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


I feel like the world's most underrated air forces may in fact be those of the Middle East. Yes, they aren't the best equipped, but let's face it, their "small-ball" method and combat experience (which is more than America's) is something to highly consider.

Just to give an idea, Iran and Iraq had two of the world's best air forces in the world in the 1980s!

Good point about the Middle East Air Forces. I think the clear winner there would be Israel of course. But Im sure Saudi Arabia has a good Air force for that region.

So for the middle east I would rank it

1. Israel
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Iran (might be number 2)
4. Egypt
5. Kuwait

Syria, Algeria, Egypt, all had some pretty nasty Air Forces. If anything, they have good pilots, like the Israelis.

Don't forget the United Arab Emirites. They will eventually get thier Block 60 F-16's and those will be pretty potent

I put Saudi Arabia at number 2 because they can buy planes from both Russia and the US right? Thats got to be nice for a airforce since you get the best of two worlds.

Im not a expert on Middle east airpower so my list may be missing some good middle eastern airforces.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Im not a expert on Middle east airpower so my list may be missing some good middle eastern airforces.

If anybody of us were, we would be working at Janes

USA NUMBER 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NO DOUBT

Syria, Algeria, Egypt, all had some pretty nasty Air Forces. If anything, they have good pilots, like the Israelis.

Never compare them to Isreal. Isreal has proven their superiority over the Middle Eastern militaries in every sense, and most of all in the air.

The Middle East has been buying Russian planes for decades, and they've always been crushed when they fought wars. You could look at Iraq recently, to Egypt against Isreal.

Originally posted by drfunk
hehe Aussie pilots are great but we haven't got that many combat jets to be considered a top airforce!!!

Our upgraded F-111s are in a class of their own at what they do and they do great at Red Flag.

Meh, I might get a lil carried away by nationalistic pride so i better stop now.

Isnt Australia buying the F22 ?

no

but they are getting F-35's