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Originally posted by sunzhu123
I WAS JUST GOOGLING KILLING TIME AND STUBLED BY YOURR SITE. So here goes, I know i'm 3 years late but i just gotta say, I'm kinda surprised by some "experts" over here.
quote#!: India has ggreat pilots. It's very hard for a 3rd world country to have enough fuel, spares and support systems to keep pilots in constant practice. ...lol
quote#2: Indian su-27 beat us f-15 in cope exercise, if u can call it that. us f-15 without aesa radar, can't use the missile's self homing, have to guide it in all the way (therefore not in fire and forget mode) which eans a range of only 30 miles, no e warfare help, no awacs, only 4 f-15 vs. 3 mig-21, 3mig-27, 3 m2k, 3 suk-30, able to use thier best weapns and radars, simulated awacs and electronic warfare help. etc etc. for the sake of the IAF I hope in the next war with pakistan, the paf operate under the rules of Cope exercise.
Originally posted by JimmyCarterIsSmarter
RuAF - Highlights include 450 Su-27 getting upgraded to SM standard, 400 Mig-29s getting upgraded to SMT standard, and 400 Mig-31s. That's a force to be reckoned with.
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I would like to point out that some of you are basing this on Manpower and Technology when it should really be based upon Pilot Skill and Tactics. So here would be my list for 2008:
1. Israel (Great pilots, an unbeaten air record, and near-unbreakable tactics)
2. India (Also has great pilots, great air record and all-round tactics)
3. U.S.A. (Sure, everyone thinks they're the best at everything. But where did they get that eh? Most of their Aircraft have even the tiniest help from foreign countries)
Yes, I'm not counting China in this due to the fact that the only great superiority the Chinese have in the air is that they have the largest (larger than the U.S.A., deal with it) Air Force in the world.
Originally posted by Captian Neo
I can only laugh on " IAF fixed wing air superiority over Pakistani skies in a minimum of 4-5 days and a max of a fortnight".
According to bahratraksha.com (the official Indian Defense site) IAF lost 75 birds in Indo-Pak war of 1965 & again 75 birds (what a similarity in stats) in 1971 Bangladesh Civil war while PAF lost only 24 & 43 respectively.
Please visit the following link see by yourself.
USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.
"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.
Not to mention PAF claim of 117 air kills against IAF in 1965 war. According to the autobiography of Gen. Chuck Yeager (yes, the one who broke the sound barrier), who 'refereed' the 1971 war and flew up and down the region collecting wreckage of IAF aircraft shot down by the PAF. Here is what he says, "the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio knocking out 102 Indian jets and losing 34 of their own. I am certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks, documented them by serial numbers, identified the components such as engines and rocket pods"
PAF also sent its pilots to many Arab nations during the Six-Day War recording 3 confirmed kills against the Israeli Air Force without losing any of their own plane.
During Yom Kippur War During the war 16 PAF pilots volunteered to go to the Middle East in order to support Egypt and Syria but by the time they arrived, Egypt had already been pushed into a ceasefire. Syria remained in a state of war against Israel. Eight (8) PAF pilots started flying out of Syrian Airbases; they formed the A-flight of 67 Squadron at Dumayr Airbase. The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian Mig-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians & shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat.
PAF has also fought & has scored ten air kills against Soviet Air force during Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.
PAF is going to induct followings in its inventory.
* 36J-10A/B Vanguard fighters from China
* 37 F-16A/B Block 15OCU MLU-3 Fighting Falcon (ex-Peace Gate III/IV aircraft) from United States
* 18 F-16C/D Block 52 Fighting Falcon from United States, with an option for another 18
* 250 JF-17 Thunder
* 6 Saab 2000 Erieye AWACS + 1 Training Aircraft
* 4 IL-78 Midas Air-to-Air Refueling Aircraft
* 12 C-130H w/6 reserve C-130H Medium Lift Transport Aircraft
* 80+ K-8 Intermediate Jet Trainer
* 120 Shenyang J-11B from China (Chinese SU-35)
* 500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles.
* 300 SD-10 Beyond-Visual-Range Air-to-Air Missiles.
* 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Within Visual Range Air-to-Air Missiles.
* 300 AIM-9M-1/2 Within Visual Range Air-to-Air Missiles.(UPGRADED TO AIM-9M-8/9 STANDARD)
* 500 PL-9C Within Visual Range Air-to-Air Missiles.
* 300 Harpoon Block II Anti-Ship Missile
* 18 targeting pods.
they already have home developed Cruise missile Ra'ad for stand-off attack.
My list of world's best Air forces (in terms of pilot skill)
1- Pakistan Air Force (considering their limited resources & impressive combat record)
2- Israeli Air Force
i have no idea about other Air Forces but above have proved themselves in real combat.
why Pakistan Air Force?
UK - Air International - November - 1991
" the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those who are rated above average, they compare favorably to the very best "
"man in the cockpit and his experience, which mattered the most in an air combat situation, and not the aircraft being flown." Chuck Yeager