Something in Matthew and Luke has me puzzled

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Your explanation makes only a little more sense than the standard christian one and to me it looks like this:


Jesus steps into the heavenly quantum leap accelerator and vanishes - only to find himself inside a Jewish teenage girl – at this point he probably says “oh boy”

The Jewish teenage girl gives birth to him and he grows up – unfortunately just like every body else who use a quantum leap accelerator his mind is Swiss cheese and it’s at this point his foe(?) realises Jesus is in a confused state and so he tries to tempt Jesus with stuff(?), but Jesus wins through (probably with the help of Gabri(Al))

Roll credits

There is a lot of similarity.
I just had a run-in with X about me sinning.
I said there is one Law and does not have the word God in it.
There is a reason for that and it is that Jesus understood that who they thought was God was actually Satan, so there would be to the end of time, the gradual awakening of that fact.
In the last day, the great angel of the loud voice calls all to turn to the true God.
Those who have not figured out who that is definitely not, will be lost.
So Jesus left us with a single law, to love one another, leaving us to pursue thoughts that would be considered as blasphemy by people trying to keep two laws which included one about loving God.
First we need to break away from what we were taught, which is actually the god of this world.

This bit

Originally posted by jmdewey60

So Jesus left us with a single law, to love one another, leaving us to pursue thoughts that would be considered as blasphemy by people trying to keep two laws which included one about loving God.
First we need to break away from what we were taught, which is actually the god of this world.

Here’s where I am in agreement with you (sort of) but "god of this world"? is this a gnostic thing?

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by MamaJ

 

What is it with christians using fear to try and get converts?

This is what it looks like to me – god loves you but if you don’t say you love him back he will have to hurt you for ever

A text book example of an abusive relationship


thanks but no thanks

Why do people (like you) want to label people (like me)? When did I say I was a Christian? Have you not read my posts to figure out first if your assumption was right before you replied to me?

I love Jesus....don't get me wrong but it is as if you are not only assuming with a pessimistic mind but you seem to want us to prove something to you. Am I correct?

The video was not to put fear into you (is that what you got from it). Did you watch the video and get the "message" as to what Jesus message was to this man? Did you only read the title and then reply about it and not bother to watch the video?

There are many stories in Literature and among the people.....I think if we open our minds...listen....we may learn something. That is all I was doing.....educating you as I have done with myself.

There is nothing to fear but fear itself....right?

In regards to questions about the Bible......

I myself, found it easier learning the Bible or any type of text when I read it like a book....from front to back.

Taking a look from verse to verse and not taking into consideration how it ties in to other gospels may lead you in the wrong direction...meaning.....real confused.

We all get something different....seek within instead of abroad my friend if you truly intend to have a relationship with the creator.....

That right there would be a healthy relationship....wouldn't you agree? Why have a relationship with someone you know nothing and understand nothing about?

Seek and you shall find is one of my favorite sayings.

Peace to you!!!! xoxox


Jenn

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Your explanation makes only a little more sense than the standard christian one and to me it looks like this:


Jesus steps into the heavenly quantum leap accelerator and vanishes - only to find himself inside a Jewish teenage girl – at this point he probably says “oh boy”

The Jewish teenage girl gives birth to him and he grows up – unfortunately just like every body else who use a quantum leap accelerator his mind is Swiss cheese and it’s at this point his foe(?) realises Jesus is in a confused state and so he tries to tempt Jesus with stuff(?), but Jesus wins through (probably with the help of Gabri(Al))

Roll credits

There is a lot of similarity.
I just had a run-in with X about me sinning.
I said there is one Law and does not have the word God in it.
There is a reason for that and it is that Jesus understood that who they thought was God was actually Satan, so there would be to the end of time, the gradual awakening of that fact.
In the last day, the great angel of the loud voice calls all to turn to the true God.
Those who have not figured out who that is definitely not, will be lost.
So Jesus left us with a single law, to love one another, leaving us to pursue thoughts that would be considered as blasphemy by people trying to keep two laws which included one about loving God.
First we need to break away from what we were taught, which is actually the god of this world.

Jesus actually states that there are two commands that all the laws and the prophets hang from:

MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Please do not speak wrongly on behalf of Jesus. He left us with two laws and he specifically states that one is more important than the other.

reply to post by MamaJ


So you’re a not a christian but you love jesus

And the video is about a guy who goes to hell but its no about fear

And christianity comes down to god loves you but if you don’t say you love him back he will have to hurt you for ever, but this is not a text book example of an abusive relationship


ok - thanks but no thanks

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by MamaJ

 

So you’re a not a christian but you love jesus

And the video is about a guy who goes to hell but its no about fear

And christianity comes down to god loves you but if you don’t say you love him back he will have to hurt you for ever, but this is not a text book example of an abusive relationship


ok - thanks but no thanks

edit on 10-8-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-8-2011 by racasan because: grammer

Do you not know people can love Jesus and not be a Christian?? Yes..... You can. Why must we think in the box all the time? Come on now.....think outside the box. Can one not learn and educate themselves on literature and come up with their own way? I have found my way and it is not a "certain religious way".

You obviously did not watch the video. There is a meaningful message and you are not getting it and won't if you do not watch it nor will you get the message by only watching the one. Seek near death experiences and find out what people are talking about. Don't take my word for it....watch, read, and learn. THEN.....you may just get the message. I certainly will not beg this of you. If you seek....you will find.

It is not about Christianity.....or any religion. Get this in your head for a moment. Forget Religion and follow the light.

It is about BELIEVING!

reply to post by MamaJ


christians say all you need to do is believe in jesus to be saved - i have seen posters on the internet who not only believe in jesus, they believe they are jesus - so I have no use for belief, in the end it does nothing useful

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I don't have any faith in belief

but this I understand:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius

reply to post by racasan


Think what you may....quote who you believe in....thats cool with me.

Good luck to you and may you find the "light" when studying scripture of any religion.

Peace and love to you ....

Jenn

Originally posted by racasan

Originally posted by Akragon

Oh and to answer your questions...

1. The devil knew exactly who jesus was, he was human... and thus subject to human desires, which is why he thought he could tempt him... clearly he was wrong.

2. Yes many christians are confused about who Jesus was.... The result of letting someone preach the bible to you instead of reading it for themselves.

3. Ya the bible has some "daft bits" in it... This isn't one of those cases. Look for the words of Jesus, Mostly the rest is useless.

So you are saying Jesus is a man - I assume you think he's a great moral teacher or something

Hitchin’s covering that point
From 3.10

Sadly enough that guy doesn't know what hes talking about, so why hes giving a lecture on something he doesn't understand is beyond me...

Though its true that some of the things "christian" churches teach are "fairytales" such as Jesus was born to a virgin, he walked on water...etc etc. He was still as you stated a "great moral teacher"...

Unfortunatly if you don't understand his words, it can lead you to believe he was not.

Read his words for yourself my friend, don't let people preach to you... and for Gods sake... Don't believe everything you hear on Youtube/ Google video.

Originally posted by racasan
This bit

Originally posted by jmdewey60
So Jesus left us with a single law, to love one another, leaving us to pursue thoughts that would be considered as blasphemy by people trying to keep two laws which included one about loving God.
First we need to break away from what we were taught, which is actually the god of this world.

Here’s where I am in agreement with you (sort of) but "god of this world"? is this a gnostic thing?

I share some narrowly defined similarities with the Gnostics.
The words are those of Jesus, "god of this world".
A little fuzzily defined, normally, but I am being more blatant in saying, what man has thought of as God, up untill the revelation of God through the person of Jesus, is not God but a counterfeit one, claiming to be, and who is still at work, clinging to his kingdom.
We break free of that grasp by joining the true God through the Spirit which the goodness of the man Jesus enabled to be given to us, a generally sinful race.

reply to post by XplanetX

Jesus actually states that there are two commands that all the laws and the prophets hang from:

MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Please do not speak wrongly on behalf of Jesus. He left us with two laws and he specifically states that one is more important than the other.

Those things are found, word for word, in the OT.
Jesus was pointing out the foundational principles behind the entire OT.
Now we have a NT based on the central mission of Jesus, which was putting into affect, the New covenent, based not on sinning, then offering sacrifice to appease an angry god who wanted worship. But based on a new thing which could only come through the work of Jesus, which is the principle of not sinning, and not doing anything to appease an angry god, and that our only true worship is the holiness of ourselves brought about by righteous living which is being good to our fellow man.

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by MamaJ

 

christians say all you need to do is believe in jesus to be saved - i have seen posters on the internet who not only believe in jesus, they believe they are jesus - so I have no use for belief, in the end it does nothing useful

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I don't have any faith in belief
but this I understand:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius

That would be great if you could put that quote up in a OP for a thread to invite comments on. "Live a Good Life".
But I would not be too optimistic about the responses.
As for belief, I was thinking about that today for a minute while riding my bike.
I don't think Jesus had too many believers. Mary, sister of Martha, would be one.
Can't think of too many more.
Jesus faced a wall of rejection and he knew the people were there for the goodies, those who were there.
Belief, to Jesus meant a lot more than people give it credit for. He knew they didn't believe but begged them to, for their own life.
People take what he meant very narrowly, to fit their own disbelief, since they are exactly the same as those Jesus vainly pleaded to but would not.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by XplanetX

 

Jesus actually states that there are two commands that all the laws and the prophets hang from:

MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Please do not speak wrongly on behalf of Jesus. He left us with two laws and he specifically states that one is more important than the other.

Those things are found, word for word, in the OT.
Jesus was pointing out the foundational principles behind the entire OT.
Now we have a NT based on the central mission of Jesus, which was putting into affect, the New covenent, based not on sinning, then offering sacrifice to appease an angry god who wanted worship. But based on a new thing which could only come through the work of Jesus, which is the principle of not sinning, and not doing anything to appease an angry god, and that our only true worship is the holiness of ourselves brought about by righteous living which is being good to our fellow man.

You have just taken something that is very simple to understand and turned it into gobbledygook.

reply to post by XplanetX

You have just taken something that is very simple to understand and turned it into gobbledygook

A bit more complex than your one liner slogans you are fond of.
I suppose you never studied the NT.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You have just taken something that is very simple to understand and turned it into gobbledygook

A bit more complex than your one liner slogans you are fond of.
I suppose you never studied the NT.

I have spent a large part of my life studying old testament and new testament scripture.

If you have studied it, then you certainly do not understand it.

That much is clear.

I was reading some Origen today and thought of you with this:

"Those who maintain that everything in the world is under the rule of the divine foresight, as is also our own belief, can give no other reply, it seems to me, in order to show that no shadow of injustice can rest upon the divine government of the world than by holding that there were certain exact causes of prior existence by consequence of which all souls before their birth in the present body contracted a certain amount of guilt in their reasoning nature, or perhaps by the actions, on account of which they have been condemned by the divine providence to be placed in their present life ... Even in such a case we must admit that there sometimes existed certain causes preceding the present bodily birth." (de Principiis, Bk. 3, ch. 3, sec. 5).

"Rational creatures had also a similar beginning. Indeed, if they had a beginning such as the end for which they hope, they must have unquestionably existed from the very beginning of the ages which are not seen ... If this be so, then of course there has been a descent from a higher to a lower condition not only by those souls who have deserved this change by the variety of their inner movements of consciousness, but also by those who in order to serve the world, came down from the higher and invisible spheres to these lower and visible ones." (de Principiis, Bk. 3, ch. 5, sec.4)

This gives an early Christian philosopher's view of how souls come with a destiny to the earth. Either they come to give recompense to something they needed to learn, or they come to serve. Origen was a believer in the pre-existence of the soul. LINK

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Ahhhhh Again...I just love your words of wisdom. This is something that I want to share with you...please do not think I am a nut case...I think you know by now...Im not.

I remember seeing myself smiling and being ready to come here and experience this journey. I was excited and I remember as soon as I made the choice....I was here..a little girl....remembering how excited I was to come...or to come BACK and be here in this realm of time.

With that said and knowing this Planet has so much darkness awaiting the light, why do you think we chose or are here?

Is it your opinion we have indeed fallen too?

I have this feeling we are here to perfect in love and light. A learning tool to overcome darkness in any experience......
We are here to show others there is another way and to not be bound by earthy "things".

Does this type of thinking make sense to you?

Thanks and love to you always!!!! xoxoxox

Jenn

Jesus was both God and man so he had access to the spiritual realm but at the same time was confined to a body so he experienced the thoughts and processes that humans are bound to. There were three temptations.

One for the body, for bread.

One for the soul, for possessions and honor.

One for the spirit, a choice on who to worship/admire as the ruler.

When you see the temptations as an affront on all the levels we exist in you'll understand these better. He was tempted in many more ways than we're told of, but these were given specifically as examples of how to focus on temptation for the three realms humans exist in.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You have just taken something that is very simple to understand and turned it into gobbledygook

A bit more complex than your one liner slogans you are fond of.
I suppose you never studied the NT.

I have spent a large part of my life studying old testament and new testament scripture.
If you have studied it, then you certainly do not understand it.
That much is clear.

If you did in fact study the NT you would know that it is not simple and is in fact rather complex and requires a lot of thought to understand.
Now do you just tell people to not look at the NT because it is too difficult and to just believe in your sloganed version of truth?

Originally posted by dbates
Jesus was both God and man so he had access to the spiritual realm but at the same time was confined to a body so he experienced the thoughts and processes that humans are bound to. There were three temptations.

One for the body, for bread.

One for the soul, for possessions and honor.

One for the spirit, a choice on who to worship/admire as the ruler.

When you see the temptations as an affront on all the levels we exist in you'll understand these better. He was tempted in many more ways than we're told of, but these were given specifically as examples of how to focus on temptation for the three realms humans exist in.

This is your invention of a religion which has nothing to do with the Bible or Christianity.
Now that's fine and I think if people can do that, that is better than never having a religious thought in their life.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Really? Dbates invented fundamental orthodox Christianity?? That's quite remarkable.