The European Witch Hunts Were a Holocaust Against Women

Originally posted by blocula
upon orders of pope innocent III,in the year 1209 in the town of beziers [now located in france] between 5,000 and 20,000 cathar men women and children IN ONE DAY were beheaded,dismembered,tortured,dragged behind horses,used for target practice and burned at the stake...WAKE UP PEOPLE ...THESE TERRORS WERE CAUSED BY THE POPE !!! and today look at all the sheep worshipping the pope! are they all blind or stupid !?the pope is satan in disguise...nooooo doubt about it!!!

^^^^^^DID YOU READ THIS^^^^^^

reply to post by blocula


yes, and i'm telling you its based off of completely wrong information. the french man who wrote that is responsible for quite a few forgeries. he cites "unpublished" trials as his sources, given to him by the pope, but a letter from the pope confirms that there WERE no unpublished court cases.

i'm not denying that people were murdered, and that it was completely wrong, but your numbers are way off, your accusation that the church is largely responsible is incorrect, and the time frame you think it happened in is wrong.

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by Aeons
One of my great grandmothers, and her entire biological family were put to the fire. Men and women. Her husband bribed them to botch the fire to burn her. Württemberg region I believe.

If you'd like to put some more emotional emphasis behind that, it'll still be untrue. The witch burning still happened, they just didn't happen that way.

Shall I pull out my High Priestess initiation rank in several trads now, or would you like me to wait until later to continue beating you over the head about this?

what didnt happen that way? i'm not getting your point and what does botch refer to and what does it mean here

I'm going to assume here that English isn't your first language. Botched means to do something wrong, to ruin something through clumsiness.

Your history lesson is wrong. Utterly.

Since you seem to be finding some people who agree with you here, because you've claimed the Wiccans you know say this is true I'm going to pull rank. I'm initiated into several new and old lines of the craft. I am a High Priestess.

So, as a High Priestess of the Craft: This history you are giving is complete bunk.

As a person of the World who loves honesty: This history you are giving is utter bunk.

reply to post by blocula


nobody worships the pope!

geeze, besides, 5-20k people is a helleva lot of people in a medieval town in the early 13th century.


paris only had maybe 30k, london also.

deleted...due to lack of interest.

A friendly reminder...

This great site of ours has been built on the cornerstone of civility and decorum. As members, we are free to discuss any issue as long as it within the parameters of the Terms and Conditions you agreed to when registering with this site.

On that note, please confine your remarks to the issue at hand and refrain from attacking one another. Adherence to this simple request is expected. No exceptions.

ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

Consider this fair warning.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by Aeons
One of my great grandmothers, and her entire biological family were put to the fire. Men and women. Her husband bribed them to botch the fire to burn her. Württemberg region I believe.

If you'd like to put some more emotional emphasis behind that, it'll still be untrue. The witch burning still happened, they just didn't happen that way.

Shall I pull out my High Priestess initiation rank in several trads now, or would you like me to wait until later to continue beating you over the head about this?

what didnt happen that way? i'm not getting your point and what does botch refer to and what does it mean here

I'm going to assume here that English isn't your first language. Botched means to do something wrong, to ruin something through clumsiness.

Your history lesson is wrong. Utterly.

Since you seem to be finding some people who agree with you here, because you've claimed the Wiccans you know say this is true I'm going to pull rank. I'm initiated into several new and old lines of the craft. I am a High Priestess.

So, as a High Priestess of the Craft: This history you are giving is complete bunk.

As a person of the World who loves honesty: This history you are giving is utter bunk.

i posted this thread and never once did "i" mention wiccans someone else did.....how can he botch the fire yet still burn her this makes no sense

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by blocula

 

nobody worships the pope!

geeze, besides, 5-20k people is a helleva lot of people in a medieval town in the early 13th century.


paris only had maybe 30k, london also.

nobody worships the pope??? i must be seeing things because eveytime he goes on tour all over the world theres millions of people gathering to see and listen to him!!! how is this nobody?

reply to post by blocula


thousands gather for bands too, but they aren't worshiped. the office of the pope shouldn't exist and is flawed. religions should never have a centralized human leader. the possibility of abuse is too great.

having said that, no one worships the pope. if they do, they aren't catholic, or any form of christian for that matter. "revered" or "honored" may be better terms.

im reading from, rossell hope robbins-encyclopedia of witchcraft and demonology...1959 and jules michelets-satanism and witchcraft ...1939........so my history is NOT all wrong...

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by blocula
upon orders of pope innocent III,in the year 1209 in the town of beziers [now located in france] between 5,000 and 20,000 cathar men women and children IN ONE DAY were beheaded,dismembered,tortured,dragged behind horses,used for target practice and burned at the stake...WAKE UP PEOPLE ...THESE TERRORS WERE CAUSED BY THE POPE !!! and today look at all the sheep worshipping the pope! are they all blind or stupid !?the pope is satan in disguise...nooooo doubt about it!!!

^^^^^^DID YOU READ THIS^^^^^^

how can you read this and then say that the popes had nothing to do with the witch hunts and inquisitions? the popes issued papal bulls [laws] which were directly responsible for starting them in the first place!!!

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by blocula
see it was all about raping women then shutting them up by accusing them of being witches and killing them and it was also about good old $$$ because their proprty was confiscated by the church! things havent changed today,only the tactics have,"getting rid of the undesireable elements of society",all because they dont have $$$,today if someone poor steals a $500 dollar item from a store, they will be put in a cage,i mean a prison! but if the ceo of the same large company embezzles 50 million dollars they wont do any hard time!...unfortunately we are living in a fallen world.

back then, what property did women own to make it profitable for the church to do that?

unless you were a Medici or someone like that, you would be immune from that anyway.

i'm not aware of any of these class of people getting bbq'd.

edit on 1-8-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

Apparently, a lot! www.thefreelibrary.com...

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by blocula

 

thousands gather for bands too, but they aren't worshiped. the office of the pope shouldn't exist and is flawed. religions should never have a centralized human leader. the possibility of abuse is too great.

having said that, no one worships the pope. if they do, they aren't catholic, or any form of christian for that matter. "revered" or "honored" may be better terms.

if they arent worshipping him then what are they doing there sharing recipes?!?!...he is THEE figure head of catholicism and he IS being worshipped ,to say he isnt is simply ridiculous

reply to post by blocula


quite a few laws existed in almost every country concerning the practice of witchcraft(or more accurately "misuse") dating back quite a while. (700ish). many of them didn't ban actual magic practice, but only detrimental spells. for instance, healing was ok, but baneful spells would be punished. the punishments were almost all non lethal. fast on bread and water for a period of time, excommunication, etc. those who confessed and repented were spared.

again. this comes from actual court records. as the church started to fragment with protestantism and catholicism did actual burnings commence, and mostly from secular courts.

read that link i gave at the bottom of the second page and all your questions will be answered.

reply to post by blocula


why do people go to concerts, or protest in mass, are they too gathered to discuss the culinary arts? do people who go to listen to a presidential speech worship the president? no.

they believe he is the earthly head of the church, and a person of renown. it would be contradictory for a catholic to worship the pope, as the only person they should worship is god. "you shall have no other gods before me" and all that.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by blocula

 

why do people go to concerts, or protest in mass, are they too gathered to discuss the culinary arts? do people who go to listen to a presidential speech worship the president? no.

they believe he is the earthly head of the church, and a person of renown. it would be contradictory for a catholic to worship the pope, as the only person they should worship is god. "you shall have no other gods before me" and all that.

[ theres millions of people,who go to concerts, see the president speak and attend mass with the pope and 99% of the time its women who start crying and screaming and fainting at these events..why? ]....in my opinion the pope is satan in disguise dragging as many blind sheep into the abyss as he can,the catholic clergy along with their witch hunters,torturers,judges,and holy troops, "on orders from the pope",demonized,tracked down,hunted and captured,raped,tortured,then hung and or burned hundreds of thousands of women young and old !!! this is genocide/gendercide...overall 75 to 80% killed were women! as my link explains...

reply to post by fooks

back then, what property did women own to make it profitable for the church to do that?

The reason was beer. I heard an interview about a year and a half ago of an author who wrote a book about the history of beer. I can't recall the exact title. Some facts from Wikipedia though:

As in ancient times, women were the primary brewers during the Middle Ages. Women took over brewing after the monasteries had really established the process.
. . .
Hopped beer was perfected in the towns of Germany by the 13th century, and the longer lasting beer, combined with standardized barrel sizes, allowed for large-scale export. The German towns also pioneered a new scale of operation and a level of professionalization. Previously beer had been brewed at home, but the production was now successfully replaced by medium-sized operations of about eight to ten people.
en.wikipedia.org...

Women brewed the beer at home. Tall conical hat in the market for visibility. Broom by the door signaled that the brewer was home and had beer ready to sell. Cauldron of course for the boiling. Cat for vermin control.

Does the above description ring a bell? The wealthy wanted to get control of beer production, the medium sized operation mentioned above. An intentional propaganda campaign was launched that was so successful that even to this day we still have the mental image of what a witch looks like and what tools she uses.

The actual seized loot was of less significance than what the new beer brewers paid to the church in order for pope to issue the decree.

reply to post by blocula

the witch hunts died off when the victims,under torture,started accusing wealthy nobels of being witches!!!! see it was ok when it was the poor that were being slaughtered but when the finger started getting pointed at the rich people the witch mania began to cease

That's the thing. 'Witch' is a catch-all accusation, if you are the prosecutor and breathing is illegal, you go after whoever you want to, some can bribe you, others with no money, ie 'worthless' you can lock up or kill as an object lesson as to who has the power.

There is no specific definition for witch. There is no way to prove that you are not a witch. The vulnerable are completely at the mercy of the whim of the prosecutor.

reply to post by blocula

fabricated laws in the name of god that made it okay for them to demonize,rape,torture and burn women by the hundreds of thousands !...

Shedding a witch's blood was taboo, therefore rape of accused witch was strictly forbidden(suffocation, drowning, or burning). It was permitted against heretics though.

Example: While Joan of Arc was accused of witchcraft she was not whipped or raped. Once the charge was dropped in favor of heresy accusation, she was fair game.
----------------
I just read the thread over again. I gave you a star for this post:

but these witch hunts were started by a POPE !!!...and the accused and killed victims properties were confiscated by the church...the same popes that are worshipped by millions to this very day....we as a race have been hypnotized and blinded by evil sinister powers...no doubt about it.

I didn't think this was a disputable statement. Evidently it was. I recently watched a movie called The Name of the Rose (1986). It portrays quite plainly the power of life and death the Inquisitors exercised, under the authority of the pope. "To disagree with the Inquisitor is to disagree with the church, which is heresy. Therefore you die."

The current Pope, Benedict XVI, formerly known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, " John Paul II named him Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith".

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) (Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei), previously known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition (wherefrom arose the names Roman Inquisition or Holy Inquisition popularly used in reference to the 16th century tribunals against witchcraft and heresy),
...
This body was renamed the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office in 1904 by Pope Saint Pius X.

The Congregation's name was changed to Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on December 7, 1965, at the end of the Second Vatican Council.

Names change, some things stay the same.

During his term as "grand high inquisitor" some nuns and priests and a bishop had been murdered in Central America for practicing Liberation Theology (in favor of people instead of powerful people). His response was that the Church alone had the authority to determine what service to humanity was and that these people who had been murdered had been going their own way without the specific instruction from the church.

I don't know how other people view this, but as far as I'm concerned it's the same as saying "It's okay to kill Christian workers who help people rather than power structures." And now he is pope.

I will quote you again:

we as a race have been hypnotized and blinded by evil sinister powers...no doubt about it.

thank you pthena for your keen observations,this subject has always fascinated me and must never be forgotten...just think...the horrible demonizing and hunting down,the tortures,mutilations and burnings were also performed on children on a regular basis!...these unfortunate victims cannot be forgotten and by the fact that millions of sheeple so casually go to the same churches and follow the same religions that were directly responsible for these mass killings,sure makes it look like they have been forgotten...but not by me!..."those who burn books will someday burn people"..."those who forget the past are condemned to relive it"..."those who live without knowing what happened before they were born remain perpetually a child"