It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The European Witch Hunts Were a Holocaust Against Women

page: 4
9
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 09:27 AM
link   
reply to post by blocula
 


you're obviously not reading your own source.



She points out that estimates made prior to the mid-1970s, when detailed research into trial records began, "were almost 100% pure speculation."


note when those books you got your information from are written.



for the most reasonable modern estimates suggest perhaps 100,000 trials between 1450 and 1750, with something between 40,000 and 50,000 executions




women did testify in large numbers against other women, making up 43 per cent of witnesses in these cases on average, and predominating in 30 per cent of them




Being female hardly guaranteed that one would be suspected or accused of witchcraft. As Steven Katz notes, "statistical evidence ... makes clear that over 99.9-plus percent of all women who lived during the three centuries of the witch craze were not harmed directly by the police arm of either the state or the church


your source does contain some flawed information though. as i pointed out, the "2000" in a day and "400" in a day resulted from a forgery. there is no supporting evidence for that claim, and much evidence that refutes it.




posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 10:32 AM
link   
reply to post by pthena
 


In the same vein of an image sticking with people over time as an identifier re-branded, one might like to take a good look at the image of the widest spread most worshipped Greeco-Roman God in Europe. Pan.

Looks just like the modern depiction of the Devil. If you realize that the modern depiction of the Devil is based on Pan.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 11:20 AM
link   
reply to post by Aeons
 


Actually, Aeons, I'd like to see some evidence for this claim regarding Pan; namely, that he was the most worshipped deity of the Greek pantheon, and that this worship was also the most wide-spread in Europe. I feel it's important to prove this, because I think your claim of Satan being Pan 'revisited' is strengthened by it.

I think this also nicely ties in with the topic here. There are certain myths that are based on claims which are unsubstantiated; and a lot of them are used to uphold Neo-Pagan positions.This is usually done to poke a finger in the eye of the Christendom of old; because so many people still feel their personal beliefs will only be strengthened if Christian beliefs are neutralised.

Lastly, Aeons, I'm sure my above paragraph more than like does not apply to you in the slightest. However, I do think this thread may be read by those to whom it does apply; and that they are entitled to see a more elaborate presentation of things which are mentioned only briefly here, almost too briefly.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Aeons


widest spread most worshipped Greeco-Roman God in Europe

And conversely, modern notions are sometimes projected back into the past, then claimed as authority.


In the 18th and 19th centuries, Pan became a significant figure in the Romantic movement of western Europe, and also in the 20th-century Neopagan movement.
en.wikipedia.org...(god)

It is true though, that the image was already encoded during the middle ages. That's what gave meaning to the political cartoon depictions of church cardinals with goat legs, the meaning was clear.


edit on 3-8-2011 by pthena because: I've been neglecting references accidently



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 11:29 AM
link   
I'll see what I can do. I'm consumed by another topic at the moment, so I promise to get back to you on that but I'm going to hope that there is one or two other academically minded pagan/ex-pagans on the board who might elaborate on my behalf.


It might be nice for some pagans to realize, that the Church wasn't dense enough in much of Europe to have inflicted Christiainity on people. Many people saw something in it, and converted of their own accord.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 11:42 AM
link   
reply to post by XLR8R
 


Wicca was started actually sometime in the 1920s or 30s by Charles Leland.

I've read a lot and researched a lot about the witch hunts for a story I'm working on. Here are some of the more interesting things I've found so far.

The majority of victims were women, some girls as young as two were burned and/or hung.
Males were victims too. Anyone who spoke out against the church was suspect.
Very few nobles were prosecuted. Even fewer were executed.

(However, only one noble, a woman named Euphame, was executed under the auspices of the witch hunt in England/Scotland. Her crime was asking the midwife for something for her labor pains during an especially difficult birth of twin boys. She was found guilty of heresy because the church believed she tried to thwart God's will that women should suffer in childbirth.)

The protestant reformation was as guilty as the Catholic church for the executions. To a certain extent the protestant witch hunts were even more intense and paranoid.

And most importantly, the entire thing seems to not be about belief or lack thereof. It was about one thing and one thing only- plain and simple greed. A person accused of witchcraft automatically forfeited their estate to the church. Sometimes, the church didn't even wait for a conviction before selling off the lands.

Witch trials were money makers. Once the churches and witch finders figured that out, there was no stopping the machine. Women were just easier to prosecute because of their status in society.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 12:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by tncryptogal
reply to post by XLR8R
 




[PART I.] (However, only one noble, a woman named Euphame, was executed under the auspices of the witch hunt in England/Scotland. Her crime was asking the midwife for something for her labor pains during an especially difficult birth of twin boys. She was found guilty of heresy because the church believed she tried to thwart God's will that women should suffer in childbirth.)

...

[PART II.] And most importantly, the entire thing seems to not be about belief or lack thereof. It was about one thing and one thing only- plain and simple greed. A person accused of witchcraft automatically forfeited their estate to the church. Sometimes, the church didn't even wait for a conviction before selling off the lands.


I found a source regarding these two points that you make. I will quote a bit from it, and state I feel the information was gathered from “Witchcraft in Early Modern Scotland”, Lawrence Normand and Gareth Roberts, 2000.

PART I. seems to tell an incomplete story.


The main charges against Euphame were trying to murder her husband (for which she was acquitted), poisoning several people, manufacturing love charms, murdering her husband’s nephew, two counts of treasonable attendance at conventions, and consulting other witches regarding present and future husbands, impeding marriages, disposing of partners by witchcraft and “avoiding by magical means the penalty that God imposed on Eve’s daughters, the natural and kindly pain of childbirth”


PART II. is actually undermined by the same case which you alluded to before.


On 5th June 1592, Euphema’s estates were returned to her family by act of Parliament, after her name had been cleared by the depositions taken after her death.


We notice there that although her estate was indeed taken from her family, it was returned to her based on further evidence; meaning, that there was an openness in this case to a certain objectivity, and utter greed is not a sufficient explanation for what had happened to her.


edit on 3-8-2011 by Leaflock because: Included extra source information.

edit on 3-8-2011 by Leaflock because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 12:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Leaflock


I do think this thread may be read by those to whom it does apply; and that they are entitled to see a more elaborate presentation of things which are mentioned only briefly here, almost too briefly.

I take the topic to be violence against women which is officially endorsed when not outright ordered by 'authority', and the obvious conclusion that something evil is afoot.

Consider this as a source from mythology:


22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

GE 2:23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called `woman,'
for she was taken out of man."

This story is a variant of the Pandora story. The names are changed of course, by those later editors attempting to push a monotheism.


GE 3:20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
. . .
GE 4:1 Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

The significance is in the names. Cain is "acquired". The mother of all was glad to have acquired a man of her own, as in 'a champion for her cause'. 'Abel' means 'superfluous'. These were the estimation of the mother.

The god (could actually be the man Adam in this context) rejected the Mother's Champion and accepted the superfluous instead.

In the end, after a death feud, the Champion is exiled to wander. Where now is the Mother's Champion! Who now will take up her cause?



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 12:15 PM
link   
i thought that the witch executions in england was by hanging not burning
i know that the pendle witch trails held at lancaster used hanging from the gallows.

the early churches that was built in england were built on pagan worship sites and they even kept some of the pagan rituals such as harvest festival .
they did this in order to win the pagans over to christianity .

imo the pagan and the russian vedic ways are a much nicer religion than the organised people controlling religions that most of the world adheres today .



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 12:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by pthena

This story is a variant of the Pandora story. The names are changed of course, by those later editors attempting to push a monotheism.


From this paper.


The most vigorous attack on women by the church was launched by two theological professors, Heinrich Kramer and James Sprenger. In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII appointed them as inquisitors for the purpose of stamping out alleged witches. In their manual for detecting and punishing them, they direct readers to the primal pattern for women: "The Scriptures have much that is evil to say about women, and this because of the first temptress, Eve, and her imitators... Eve seduced Adam ...therefore she is more bitter than death."


Has religion fueled misogyny in Western history? Absolutely. Did this lead to a great deal of death and suffering, and was it intellectually defended as being reasonable? Without doubt.

I thank you for pointing out the Eve-Pandora connection; with further research, it is highly valuable information.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 12:44 PM
link   
I thought that it was the wives of dead crusaders. Church sent the men off and when they died. Their wives were left very rich. So then the church accused them of being witches so that they could get the wealth from the wives. Sent the men off on some mad mission to die and then robbed their wives. What a bunch of evil ***** heads the religious leaders are. We should string them up and call them wiizards ect. Take back all the wealth that they have stolen and give it to the poor.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 01:16 PM
link   
Just for information did you know that, in the UK, the last person to be convicted under the Witchcraft Act was Jane Yorke in 1944. The Act was only repealed in 1951 and replaced by the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951.

We still retain within our laws some very medieval thinking. I'm not sure whether they have repealed local laws where its legal to shoot either Scotsman or Welshman with certain City boundaries after Midnight or on a Sunday with a bow and arrow.

Walk in peace, take only photographs and leave nothing but footprints.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 03:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Leaflock


I thank you for pointing out the Eve-Pandora connection; with further research, it is highly valuable information.

You will notice that Hesiod himself took the same position concerning women as did those theologians you mention.

Classical pre-Christian (commonly called Pagan, misuse by the way) is not automatically more pro-woman by virtue of being pre-Christian. I don't know much about Neo-Pagan movements, but I would guess that they shouldn't automatically be assumed to be beneficial to women either.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 09:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by blocula
 


you're obviously not reading your own source.



She points out that estimates made prior to the mid-1970s, when detailed research into trial records began, "were almost 100% pure speculation."


note when those books you got your information from are written.



for the most reasonable modern estimates suggest perhaps 100,000 trials between 1450 and 1750, with something between 40,000 and 50,000 executions




women did testify in large numbers against other women, making up 43 per cent of witnesses in these cases on average, and predominating in 30 per cent of them




Being female hardly guaranteed that one would be suspected or accused of witchcraft. As Steven Katz notes, "statistical evidence ... makes clear that over 99.9-plus percent of all women who lived during the three centuries of the witch craze were not harmed directly by the police arm of either the state or the church


your source does contain some flawed information though. as i pointed out, the "2000" in a day and "400" in a day resulted from a forgery. there is no supporting evidence for that claim, and much evidence that refutes it.

who cares when they were written, are we today suppose to be any smarter than the scholars that were alive fifty years ago?........no



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 09:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by blocula
upon orders of pope innocent III,in the year 1209 in the town of beziers [now located in france] between 5,000 and 20,000 cathar men women and children IN ONE DAY were beheaded,dismembered,tortured,dragged behind horses,used for target practice and burned at the stake...WAKE UP PEOPLE ...THESE TERRORS WERE CAUSED BY THE POPE !!! and today look at all the sheep worshipping the pope! are they all blind or stupid !?the pope is satan in disguise...nooooo doubt about it!!!
remember this ^^^ ? and the cathars were accused of being heritics and were mutilated and murdered on orders from the pope...5 to 20 thousand were killed in one day! so to say that the grand total killed as witches was around 60,000 is wrong...just about every european country tracked down ,tortured and killed people accused of being witches on a daily basis for hundreds of years!



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 10:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Leaflock
 


Thanks for the information. I tried to find more, but that's all I had for now. Maybe perhaps, her husband was important enough to get a pass?

I do recall reading that doctors, even in Victorian England, had a hard time convincing the Church that it was okay to give women in child birth medicine that would relieve some pain.

The one reason Giles Cory in Salem never confessed and simply said "More weight" was because if he had confessed his estates would have been forfeit. He chose death rather than leave his sons without an inheritance.

It was about money sometimes. I personally continue to believe that it is all about the money and the paranoia fostered by both the protestant and Catholic religions served to enrich the pockets of officials. I am not disagreeing that sexism was also involved. It was. But even those attitudes enriched certain people.

Edit to add: Thank you so much for sharing more information with me. I guess I'm still not as good a researcher as I should be. I tried to U2U you, but I goofed up.

edit on 4-8-2011 by tncryptogal because: Added "thank you"



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 10:08 AM
link   
when you consider these horrible facts that "very young children" and "very old people" and countless others were demonized,hunted and tracked down,captured,brutalized and dragged away,then raped,starved,had their hands and feet cut off,their breasts and genitals hacked,ripped and torn with red hot pincers,arms and legs crushed and pulverized,eyes gouged out,skulls smashed,hair set on fire,boiled in a hellish mixture of oil and water,put on the stretching racks,slowly roasted over open flames,hung upside down and beaten with metal rods,boiling fluids poured down their throats,forced to eat heavily salted fish with no water,fingers and toes crushed,teeth ripped out of their mouths,hanged and burned alive and the families of the victims were actually forced to pay for the rope and wood that was used!! and if they couldnt "pay" the entire family was taken away and their property confiscated!!... all this twisted barbarity,all these beastly,psychotic abominations and a " lot more",occured in almost every country in europe for hundreds of years!! with the willing consent and encouragement of the churches and clergy and strictly enforced by demented popes!!...knowing this, its so "painfully obvious" to me who or what is "running the show"...something or someone that is sinister and evil and he,she or it has a large proportion of the people of this world trained and tricked by their continuous believing in,praying to and worshipping of diabolical powers that have manifested themselves on earth and are disguised with the thin veneer of religions and masquerading as their kind and loving gods.....
edit on 4-8-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-8-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 10:23 AM
link   
reply to post by blocula
 


Reading some of the accounts is horrifying. I can't help but think that the lay people and bishops in charge of the persecutions didn't somehow receive sexual gratification from the acts. Maybe in some weird way this was the outcome of hundreds of years of sexual repression. I am sure that it was bigotry and hatred and superstition on the part of the smaller players. The only reason I say it's about money is that the people in charge, i.e the Pope and some witch finders got extremely wealthy off of this hysteria.

For people who think it won't happen again. It is already happening in places like Africa and India. The victims are usually old women and children.


On Monday, Indian Shaman Bhagwan Deen, along with six villagers, were arrested for allegedly rounding up women in central Chhattisgarh state’s Shivni village on Sunday and forcing them to consume a poisonous herbal potion to prove they weren’t witches. According to BBC News South Asia, an 18-year-old women was accused of witchcraft because she felt sick, and her father, along with other villagers, thought it was due to “an evil spell cast by a witch,” so they called in Deen (a village “ojha”, or witchdoctor) to cast it away. He, along with others residents, pooled together nearly 30 women to find the “witch,” and when his rituals failed to “expose” her, he brewed the elixir, which he then demanded they drink in hopes “the real witch would voluntarily confess.” Afterwards, the women who fell ill were taken to the hospital; 25 were discharged and five still admitted, including a 70-year-old in serious condition.


The Witch Killers of Africa (2003)

In June of 2001, villagers of Congo's northeast provinces began a bloody witch eradication campaign, sparing neither neighbor, nor friend. Alleged witches were unceremoniously hacked apart by machete-wielding vigilantes, bringing about a scene of carnage unmatched since the machete killing-sprees of the Rwanda Crisis. The innocent victims were first "smelled out" (identified by tribal healers as witches) before they were savagely beaten into incriminatory confessions about others allegedly engaged in the black arts. After the unsuspecting parties were identified, the executions started in earnest throughout the rural areas. Three hundred villagers were killed in the first days of the witch paranoia.[1] In the following weeks, the death toll rose to nearly eight hundred victims.[2] Hundreds of Congolese fled to the relative safety of Uganda, many bearing machete wounds on legs, arms, and torsos.


Even in America, attitudes persist.


"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." -Pat Robertson



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 10:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by blocula
the preists,bishops and popes couldnt get married and they were raised to think that sex was blasphemy and a sin,so they fabricated laws in the name of god that made it okay for them to demonize,rape,torture and burn women by the hundreds of thousands !...this is unbelievable ! yet true !...we live in a fallen world that is worshipping evil, dancing with greed and sleeping with denial and about to fall into the abyss...
yes...thats why i said this ^^^



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 10:38 AM
link   
Wth has wicca got to do with any of this?
Since when did some made up crap by Gerald Gardener have any relevance to the real victims of the burning times?



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join