Tea Party triumphs! Drives America to greatest crisis since the Civil War!

Originally posted by James1982
Tell me, exactly, why AREN'T people entitled to Social Security and Medicare? THEY PAID INTO IT. It's THEIR money.

Please, stop with this entitlement crap. Unless the government wants to give back all the money they have stolen from people's paychecks for 40 years (SS + Medicare) then people deserve their SS and Medicare. Or do you support stealing money from American citizens? Because that's what refusing SS and Medicare would be.

They paid into a PONZI scheme... tell me, how is it fair that one generation has many many workers to support every retiree while my generation will have 3 or less to support every retiree?

reply to post by neo96

yeah ok ss has a surplus so why did obama lie then and say those people might not be getting their checks in no deal was met.

The individual accounts like defence, social security, government salaries, and so on aren't treated as individual subsidiaries that need to make a profit. The government has cash inflows, and then distributes these yearly on what they consider to be the best use. You can still track those cash in and outflows, which in the case of SS show that so far way way way more came in than was spent, but that the outflows still come from the overall budget pot. In essence, the SS surplus was temporarily used for other stuff like defence...it was essentially spent.

But the actual program runs at a profit, and will continue to do so until 2035, at which point payments have to be cut down to 75% to allow the program to run until the 80s. But looking that far into the future is hard as it all depends on demographics.

Anyway, in this case, Obama wasn't lying. Government cash outflows like SS payments (anything really, including the salaries of our soldiers) are made from the overall pot. And if the pot is empty, SS loses out just like everyone else that depends on government $$$.

The US government has 2 choices if they don't raise the debt ceiling:

1) Default on interest payments.

Some people want this because they see it as a way to laugh at the Chinese...because they obviously don't get any money that way. Sounds like a convenient way out, but only if you have no clue about economics. What happens if they go this route, is that the cost of the interest would go up DRAMATICALLY. So once they're solvent again, they need to repay this...and guess what, by then the additional cost went up by so much, it'll crush the entire economy again for years.

2) Don't pay for government services.

Now, here's where the parties disagree a lot. Some say defence, others social security, yet others say cutting medicaid is better. In the end, none of these alone would solve the issue, and no matter what, a LOT of people would be hit, including the police (the ones helping out if your daughter gets molested on the streets), firefighters (the ones saving you from fires), teachers (you know, the people educating your kids), soldiers, and so on. Now, you might not give a rat's ass about all or some of those people, and so does EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN in the US...but here's where the problem lies....

No matter which group takes a haircut, it'll result in less consumer spending. And this at a time when we NEED consumer spending to pick up in order for the economy to recover. So if they go for option 2), they pretty much destroy the economy even further no matter what.

__________________

Cliff notes: If they don't raise the debt ceiling, the US is essentially signing its economic death warrant. They ned to raise it, and then seriously work on their spending and income. A good start would be to close loopholes allowing the most profitable company in the world (Exxon) to pay ZERO taxes...or even worse, getting incentives. This won't ever happen of course as the politicians (all of them) are now working for the corporations rather than the people...but it needs to happen if they want to prosper again. Secondly, defence spending. No matter what other department you cut, unless you cut defence, it'll never be enough. And lastly, they musn't cut spending in areas where it would result in less consumer spending (social security!!), as that would only further deteriorate the economy.

Originally posted by Gutterpus
WHY I'M DEPRESSED

Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land."

Nearly 75 years ago,(when Welfare was introduced) Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land."

Today, Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels and mortgaged the Promised Land! I was so depressed last night thinking about Health Care Plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc . . . I called a Suicide Hotline. I had to press 1 for English. I was then connected to a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck......

Hahahahahahahahahaha... post of the day right there.

reply to post by AlienView


Hey op just add the words "racist" , "bigots", and "teabaggers" ...then take your tripe to msnbc and apply for a job. They should hire you on the spot with the 3 leftist buzzwords above.

I apoligize but I really did not read the post or the responses to it.

I have found that trying to be logical and rational in this period of time with the amount of indoctrination that has been taking place for generations it is useless to get into a political discussion.

I prefer to live with an attitude that what will be will be.

This little ditty has always helped me.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by AlienView

 

The Tea Party are not the fear-mongers. The Tea Party is ready to let the country reset naturally to get rid of all the potential "bubbles" that are looming as catastrophes. The Tea Party is ready to embrace a "free market" where values are not falsely inflated. The Tea Party is ready to get the government's hands out of everything, and let the people be responsible for the outcomes.

All the fear-mongering is coming from Fortune 500 companies, Obama, Liberals, and the Credit Rating agencies. They are the ones threatening the common people, and you have fallen victim to it. You are listening to all of the doom and gloom from the parties that are responsible for putting us into this fiasco.

Will times be hard? YES. Will fixing this economy require sacrifice? YES.

Is the Tea Party advertising this doom? NO! It is the Obama administration threatening to cut off checks, and the S&P threatening to lower the credit rating, and the big corporations pouring money into the Liberal agenda to keep propping up a doomed system. That is where the fear-mongering is coming from.

The Tea Party and the Conservatives just want the government's hands out of our pockets, and we want the economy to self-adjust to where it belongs, and we are willing to take personal responsibility for the hard times to get us out the other side and back to a real recovery and some real prosperity instead of the fake one.

Threatening to cut off checks? He didn't threaten to do that, he stated it may be a consequence if the debt ceiling is not raised.

I'm surprised the credit rating agencies haven't already lowered the credit rating. Are they suppose to just keep us in the dark and spring it on us without warning?

Are you suggesting that they and the president should not inform us of the possible consequences of what will happen if we can't pay the bills this August? And because they have, they are fear mongering?

As far as the F 500 goes, they all, regardless of the pockets they own, would like to see the "people" of this country brought to their economic knees, perhaps elbows, so that they can take full advantage of our desperation and lack of economic power, IMNSHO.

"Is the tea party advertising this doom?" Nooooooooooo they are the ones insisting that "the people" get on their knees and elbows!

reply to post by NoAngel2u


He is threatening it. It is a cheap political trick, because in reality SS would be one of the very last things to get cut. For him to bring it up now, is just a cheap threat.

The Tea Party isn't bringing anybody down, they are just refusing to prolong the inevitable on the backs of our children and grand children. You can't spend your way out of debt, and you can't continue to raise your exposure in a bad investment. If the Fed Govt was a business, and they went to any bank with this BS plan, the bank would laugh them out of the room. You don't run your debt up to some astronomical level, then admit you have no real plan to fix it, and then ask for more credit to buy a temporary reprieve. It is ludicrous.

Sorry, but the entire Govt, both parties, and our own populace is all responsible for this deep hole. We are screwed, the Tea Party is just the only folks admitting to it and refusing to go in even deeper. Don't shoot the messenger, they didn't create this mess, they are just trying to get in the way of continuing it.

reply to post by getreadyalready


It's an unrealistic expectation to think he, or whoever is president would not inform the public of the possible consequences. So what? You expected otherwise?

The "people" did not cause this mess. Explain to me how you can put that blame on the populace? Hmm?

So, if SS would be one of the last cut, what will be the first? Corporate tax breaks? Oh wait, nope they are the economically protected class. lol

reply to post by NoAngel2u


First will be Federal non-essential payroll. Next would be a default on interest payments to ourselves. No big deal, except it will begin the hyper inflation. Eventually they will have to cut military and contract spending. At some point military payroll and benefits, and then eventually social programs and SS.

And how are we all to blame for this? Really? You don't know anybody head over heels in debt? It isn't just the government spending more than they make, it is all of us. We all caused this economic bubble. We all paid far too much for our homes and cars. We all buy cheap disposable Chinese stuff, and then we throw it away and buy more. We all use our credit cards for gas and groceries and then spend our cash on fast food, movies and beer. Some of us are worse than others, but none of us are innocent in this.

The only party I belong to is the one that I throw after we #endthefed and #endwar

Bring the troops home and have them rebuild our infrastructure such as roads, bridges, borders, dams, schools, etc.

REALIZE that borrowing more fiat money from men who lend to countries is NOT how this country is supposed to work.

Any constitutional lawyer can win this case in court. It's not a hard case to argue

en.wikipedia.org...:_Contracts_Clause

Fiat Specie is incompatible with Liberty and prohibited as Legal Tender by US Constitution Article One section 10.

But no. Your tv news tells you. Your reps tell you. Radio, news, even internet all tell you the opposite. The silenced voices of reasonable men who love this country are drowned out by the cries of the ignorant masses who don't even care about self education.

Welp, sorry.

You can bash it against my face until I die from it.

Slavery does NOT equal freedom.

Debt DOES equal SLAVERY, however.

More debt? MORE SLAVERY!

Edited to add: Realize that Social Security is not an entitlement but a promise the government made to the people who paid into it.

Originally posted by Gutterpus
WHY I'M DEPRESSED

Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel, "Pick up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land."

Nearly 75 years ago,(when Welfare was introduced) Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land."

Today, Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels and mortgaged the Promised Land! I was so depressed last night thinking about Health Care Plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc . . . I called a Suicide Hotline. I had to press 1 for English. I was then connected to a call center in Pakistan. I told them I was suicidal. They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck......

this was a epic friggin post!! I loved it.

reply to post by neo96

nope the entitlement generations have created the biggest "crisis" in this countries history.

I agree....the entitled billionaires and corporations have cut their own taxes and started 2 wars, while at the same time sending all of our jobs overseas due to free trade....creating a double dose of decreased revenue as more and more americans need assistance due to unemployment or poverty.

You nailed this one Neo.

I knew you'd come around eventually.

reply to post by David9176


and the 75 million ameircans who arent paying taxes get to nickle and dime other people who do not even use those services.

thats a great sense of morality you have there.

sorry but im not the facsist nazi hater that too many people are on here.

maybe if you laid off the millionaires and billionaires there would be jobs here.

reply to post by neo96

and the 75 million ameircans who arent paying taxes get to nickle and dime other people who do not even use those services.

What should we do with them? Dig a big hole in the ground and throw 'em in?

sorry but im not the facsist nazi hater that too many people are on here.

You are closer to being a nazi than most everyone else on this website. And before you get all "defensive", you just called a bunch of people on this website fascist nazi's.....also to include you've called many "parasites" and "leeches." You have more hatred in you than most nazi's...in fact...they may be jealous of you.

maybe if you laid off the millionaires and billionaires there would be jobs here.

Doh

reply to post by David9176


please you have no clue what a nazi is noone on the left does they are the largest group of nazis in this country

funny how you came up with that " just throw them in a hole". maybe its your subconsious mind telling you something.

fact is your ideology is just to throw money at them and pat yourself on the back for a job well done and think youve done something good.

truth is you havent.

the only thing that is going to save this country is people taking care of themselves and generating their own wealth and no amount of money you want to "Steal from all those rich folk" will ever fix anything.

when there are no more rich then what? oh this country today exists.

move on to someone else i dont have time for this nonsense.

I'm not a tea partier or whatever but I think they are getting slammed in this unfairly.

I think the main problem is Obama is an idiot, and a liar, and the republicans are so hysterical that they would destroy America to get rid of her safetynet that they've never liked.

You know? It's like, not the time, not the place...to be breast beating about making granny sell her house because you think you could get a lot of money for it when grandpa's funeral is in 5 minutes? okay?

So ok, we're all divided, and we got a donkey totally facing backwards but kicking anyway in one side of the ring, and an elephant blowing his stupid trunk like a fool in the other. It's still a circus ring. Meanwhile, Gerald Celente and Ron Paul are selling common sense out in the lobby but hardly anyone is listening because the spectacle of the coming crash is just too darn riveting. Yeah. American politics.

Hey, let's blame the tea party. I hear they have a mad hater. I mean hatter.

reply to post by neo96

please you have no clue what a nazi is noone on the left does they are the largest group of nazis in this country

What is a Nazi then Neo? Explain it to me so I can understand.

funny how you came up with that " just throw them in a hole". maybe its your subconsious mind telling you something.

Oh darn, you found me out Neo! In my defense of the elderly, unemployed, poor, and middle class....I secretly want to throw them in mass graves! your a damned genius!!!

fact is your ideology is just to throw money at them and pat yourself on the back for a job well done and think youve done something good.

Your an ideologue....in fact you are an elitist through and through. In fact you seem to have more of the feeling of "entitlement" than of those you accuse.

the only thing that is going to save this country is people taking care of themselves and generating their own wealth and no amount of money you want to "Steal from all those rich folk" will ever fix anything.

People do take care of themselves, and they will do it however they can. If it means having to work 2 jobs if they can get them, or by government assistance, they will do what they have to so that they can survive.

when there are no more rich then what? oh this country today exists. move on to someone else i dont have time for this nonsense.

As long as there is currency, there will always be a rich class. There was one when the top tax rate was over 90 percent...and surprisingly there were jobs....good ones with great benefits I know it's a tough pill to swallow Neo.

The wealthy are just as dependent on government as everyone else...and damnit they've been doing a fantastic job controlling and corrupting it to fit their needs.

reply to post by David9176

What is a Nazi then Neo? Explain it to me so I can understand.

why bother since you know everything.

Your an ideologue....in fact you are an elitist through and through. In fact you seem to have more of the feeling of "entitlement" than of those you accuse.

yeah i am i am entitled to what i earn and noone else is.

People do take care of themselves, and they will do it however they can. If it means having to work 2 jobs if they can get them, or by government assistance, they will do what they have to so that they can survive.

the government feeding and paying over 100 million people says otherwise

As long as there is currency, there will always be a rich class. There was one when the top tax rate was over 90 percent...and surprisingly there were jobs....good ones with great benefits I know it's a tough pill to swallow Neo.

so in your world making someone else pay 90% of their income and let everyone else pay nothing and everything else is A-OK in your book?

and the wealthy invest in other parts in the world and park their money offshore to keep greedy people like you from it.

your position supports a totalarian style rule where you dictate what others should have and others shouldnt have now if that aint fascist i dont know what is.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by David9176

 

and the 75 million ameircans who arent paying taxes get to nickle and dime other people who do not even use those services.

You mean the rich?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by David9176

 

and the 75 million ameircans who arent paying taxes get to nickle and dime other people who do not even use those services.

Ok, one is General electric, who are the other 74.999.999?