Population control Isn't it about time?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Reaper2137

Since you've worked for the government, perhaps you can also identify these issues;
1. What about inherent biases in the system?
That is some thing we should always look into and try to root out. If we can Identify the problem than we can come up with a solution,

2. If I only had one child, would I be able to sell the other option?
I would think not, Selling options would create a black market and a reason to kill people. People should be happy with what they have and be thankful they aren't screwing over later generations. I.E their own children.

3. How would you insure no racial, sexism, genetic flaws wouldn't play into factoring said secisions?
Because there would be panels and oversight directly accountable to the public. Well if we also research in to genetic manipulation than those flaws can become a thing of the past.
.
4. You don't see this as a way of creating an artificial class structure? (ie 1 vs 2 vs no kids?)
Why would it? Even today some people get fixed and have no children and they are not discriminated against

5. This works poorly in China with the deaths of hundreds of thousands of infant girls, how would this be better?
Because you would only get two shots, no repeats and it would be directly accountable to a board.
with that being said if one baby ends up dead you don't get another one. seems pretty simple to me. if you have a baby die before you have a second one. I would think that a board could rule and allow you to have a 3rd one as long as you didn't kill any of them on purpose..

6. What would the fines or punishments be for more children? (see artificial class structure)
You couldn't have more children because you would be fixed after two..

7. How closely would this me monitored? (Big Brother?)
I would think it could be monitored fairly easy, almost every one goes to the doc.

8. How long would this program be in effect?
until the problem is no longer such and than it could be just like our draft still around but not in use.


9. Would deaths be a reason to have more?
not really understanding this question. deaths? of who the children or adults


10. Who would pay for the enforced sterilization after the 2 children?
Tax money from the people, from every one. A little bit of money now will save you in the future on welfare costs..


11. Where would it be done?
It pretty much is done already, planned parenthood?

12. What kind of infrastructure would be needed to monitor, sterilize, enforce such a program?
just redeploy welfare with a new job and less money

reply to post by Reaper2137


Ignorance is bliss. I bet that in 500 years time, if by some miracle we are still around, that we will still be stuck on this planet and having the same argument. We live in a universe that is huge beyond words and here we are arguing about population control, when we should be out there exploring other star systems and colonizing other planets. Unfortunately all our money is spent on wars and keeping people ignorant.

reply to post by Reaper2137


We don't need population control, we need smarter human beings. Food is a resource that is always reoccurring so there is an infinite amount which can be grown. Water is all around us, if we put our mind to it we could build efficient desalination plants to remove salt from water.

Anything can be done. But no one wants to give up their luxuries so others can live peacefully.

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Ignorance is bliss. I bet that in 500 years time, if by some miracle we are still around, that we will still be stuck on this planet and having the same argument.

We live in a universe that is huge beyond words and here we are arguing about population control, when we should be out there exploring other star systems and colonizing other planets. Unfortunately all our money is spent on wars and keeping people ignorant.

Well if we didn't go thru the dark ages, we might have the tech by now to do so. As long as the nations fight over resources and fight over what and who can go into space. than we are going to always have this problem. This Problem may well grant you your wish tho. Soon it will become apparent that we have to go out into space if we are to survive. But as long as we ignore the problem its only going to get worse I also think in 500 years if we haven't been forced to space yet its not going to happen.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

We don't need population control, we need smarter human beings. Food is a resource that is always reoccurring so there is an infinite amount which can be grown. Water is all around us, if we put our mind to it we could build efficient desalination plants to remove salt from water.

Anything can be done. But no one wants to give up their luxuries so others can live peacefully.

Not true, food is finite depending on the way the food is farmed. If it is a sustainable farm than yes food is semi-infinite but than again what happens when you have more people than you can produce food?

Sooner or later that is going to become a problem here in cali they are building over prime farmland and you can't farm every wear some places are better than others and some you just can't grow in.

Hi OP,

Thankyou for posting your opinions on this somewhat long debate. Id like to point out a few pieces of information you have neglected to include.

1> The UN website states given the current trends and statistics that the world population will cease growth at around 2050 at the figure of 10 billion people.

2> Western women have an average of 1.6 children at the moment, which means that western populations are shrinking. (In Australia where I live, the 2005 Census data was actually 1.5 and was continuing a 20 year trend heading down.) BTW 2.1 children is required to maintain population figures.

3> The population debate has been going on since the industrial revolution when TPTB discovered that they no longer needed large work forces to provide for them. The movement is called Malthusianism and Oligarchs have been telling commoners than the world was going to run out of food/resources in 20 years, for 200 years now they have been saying this.

4> Terms such as 'carrying capacity' and 'useless eaters' are Malthusian which also includes the introduction of disease and famine in order to cull populations, hence when your using the terms and maths of Malthusians (which use a formula which marks carrying capacity as one of the variables) your appear to be a Malthusian.

5> The education system in many western countries more or less teaches what Governments tell them too teach. If an issue is debatable a panel is selected to make decisions about policy. This policy always reflects what government wants regardless of the consensus due to cherry picking panel members.

6> Government policy is effected by lobbying groups, donations personal and party wide, promises of jobs afterwards etc. What you are learning in school is government policy and not necessarily uncontested by mainstream science.

7> Modern Malthusians are called Neo-Malthusians who have basically updated the movement through the UN to include birth control and modern science when it applies to their cause. The program is called Agenda 21 which is an international effort for sustainable development, it includes goals such as the removal of private property, using education systems globally to invoke support for the movement, creating non populated green zones and movement of all people into mega cities through force if necessary.

8> Among the goals of Agenda 21 is removal of nations and installation of 10 control zones under an unelected global governance system of appointed bureaucrats. Enforcement of this would be through UN 'Peace Keepers'. Sound like a conspiracy, go read about it on the UN Website, its a matter of public record.

9> The UN has asserted itself into Womens Groups, Children and Youth Groups, Indigenous People, Non Government Organizations, Local Authorities, Workers and Trade Unions, Business and Industry, Scientific and Technological Community, and Farmers Federations globally through legislation, regulation, policy and grants for positive studies and campaigns addressing sustainable development in a positive light.

10> China has implemented a one child policy which sounds about the same as what you are suggesting. This has resulted in licensing of the right to have a baby, meaning you have to pay for a baby. Unmarried women are having their babies taken from them and sold internationally or forced abortions.

11> Sterilization and Abortion (neither in which i believe) are linked to Cancer.

12> Industrialization of countries tends to lead to lower birth rates however with Agenda 21 and the Global Warming Taxes, globalists are attempted to create a post industrial west as well as prevent developing nations from becoming industrialized.

Could it be that population size is merely a pretext to end privacy and give more control to these lunatics who already run the world?

Id wager yes.

reply to post by Gravity215


Whats not linked to cancer now a days?

Thank you for that reply if you read the whole thread you would know I covered a bit of that. Not all I didn't want it so complicated that people couldn't understand it.

As for Agenda 21 not a bad thing will happen sooner or later..

as for your the U.S and were you are from I already covered that saying that it wasn't a problem for first world counties

Its non-industrial countries that are the problem. They have very little to no education, very little to no natural resources and are growing faster than any other countries

Originally posted by Reaper2137
reply to post by Gravity215

 

Whats not linked to cancer now a days?

Personally Id rather my wife or daughter not be forced to do something which endangers them.

Thank you for that reply if you read the whole thread you would know I covered a bit of that. Not all I didn't want it so complicated that people couldn't understand it.

I did read the very long debate, although many posts have been removed by the mods by looks

As for Agenda 21 not a bad thing will happen sooner or later..

Personally I like owning my own property. I think many others would agree. I also like the illusion of being able to select my government officials by ballot. Many people died so I and you could and I thank the brave folks in the military who continue too.

as for your the U.S and were you are from I already covered that saying that it wasn't a problem for first world counties

Its non-industrial countries that are the problem. They have very little to no education, very little to no natural resources and are growing faster than any other countries

I agree that if this was really the problem/reaction/solution that TPTB are recommending China and India would be the cause of the problem, however, since there is ample space/food/water as well as cheap effective technology to provide for people the problem as i see it, is simply greed of TPTB.

I don't think elites want population control.
They infact want more people. But not healthy people, they want sick, tired people, that will spend money on their medicine. The best medicine for medical corporation elite, is the one which don't completely cure illness, and sustain a steady flow of money and addiction of patient.
So more people=more crops to harvest.

I feel really sorry for people on chemotherapy.

the current model of global economics demands 'new' consumers be added to the system constantly,
how can the corps/mega corps realize sustained 10% to 30% growth opy in a flat to decreasing model?
It cant.
Start there, with the current antique and well controlled and horribly mismanaged economic system.
Greed and exploitation, coupled with terrible management and awesome propaganda have allowed this perspective.

Population control is already well under way, even in the West. Swine Flu Vaccine is to damage developing ovaries using Polysorbate 80, HPV (Cervical Cancer) Vaccines is to stop women from being able to carry a full-term pregnancy. UNICEF/WHO/UN have been sterilizing with "vaccines" for many years in the Third World, it's well-documented.

Watch what happens over the next 10 years, especially look carefully to see how the media tries to explain the huge fertility problems.

We get back to the same problem in the end its the third world countries that are the problem. Food is finite We can over farm land, Take a few hundred years to get fertile soil again. I don't know about other countries but here in the United States they are building over prime farmland.

We don't need it now but we will in the future, Tech can only get us so far, I don't think the TPTB have much to do with any thing. In fact I think people give them way to much credit than they deserve. It is a real problem It wouldn't be so much people if we could clean up the industries.

Not every place in the world can be farmed what we need is sustainable age here people. This use it and lose crap is whats going to kill us in the long run. we are starting to see a dust bowl here again in the United States and its happening all over the world as well.

This is what happens when you over farm.

other than that, I'm really pro-choice not pro-life. its the women who has to carry it its the women who gets to the choice.

And really once again what doesn't have a link to cancer?? smoking cancer, breathing cancer, eating processed food cancer, not eating processed food cancer, sugar cancer, fake sugar cancer, swimming cancer, going out side cancer, make up cancer,

really I could go on and on and on there are 1000s of things we make huge fuss over that causes cancer..

Originally posted by piotrburz
I don't think elites want population control.
They infact want more people. But not healthy people, they want sick, tired people, that will spend money on their medicine. The best medicine for medical corporation elite, is the one which don't completely cure illness, and sustain a steady flow of money and addiction of patient.

It's best to look at the quotes from the elite, we don't need to speculate, we have proof they want depopulation. We even have Elite Top Dog David Rockefeller himself calling for a huge cut in population, and saying the UN will take responsibility for it. This plan has now been implemented via The Swine Flu Vaccine, it was implemented by Rockefeller's WHO



“In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it is just as bad not to say it.”
J. Cousteau, 1991 explorer and UNESCO courier

“I believe that human overpopulation is the fundamental problem on Earth Today” and, “We humans have become a disease, the Humanpox.”
Dave Foreman, Sierra Club and co founder of Earth First!

“We must speak more clearly about sexuality, contraception, about abortion, about values that control population, because the ecological crisis, in short, is the population crisis. Cut the population by 90% and there aren’t enough people left to do a great deal of ecological damage.”
Mikhail Gorbachev

“Depopulation should be the highest priority of foreign policy towards the third world, because the US economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less developed countries”.
Dr. Henry Kissinger

“World population needs to be decreased by 50%”
Dr. Henry Kissinger

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
Prince Phillip, Queen Elizabeth’s husband, Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund/WWF

“Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind”
Theodore Roosevelt

“Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac,” and “The elderly are useless eaters”
Dr. Henry Kissinger

“The present vast overpopulation, now far beyond the world carrying capacity, cannot be answered by future reductions in the birth rate due to contraception, sterilization and abortion, but must be met in the present by the reduction of numbers presently existing. This must be done by whatever means necessary.”
Initiative for the United Nations ECO-92 EARTH CHARTER

It is about time, but you will never hear it from mainstream media (except in China, which still cares about the future of their people more than money and power). Sadly, even here on ATS most people dont see through the propaganda, which began after WW2 (population control was mainstream thought before then). If it wasnt for reproduction anarchy, I believe poverty would be mostly eradicated by now. What the TPTB fear most is educated and wealthy population. They dont fear the numbers themselves at all.

And yes, I would have no problem to get sterilized myself under population control laws.

Originally posted by Reaper2137

1.) our current population is around nine billion and continues at an exponential rate. In the next 25-30 years that number will double. We are well over the Earths carrying capacity of 2 billion for the way we live. If we still lived as hunter gathers we could further populate the planet to 40-100 billion but we are too late for that.

you need new sources....theres just under 7 billion on earth right now...now i havnt really researched this much but ive read that earth can comfortably sustain 10 billion humans before we begin to eat more food than we can produce.

and ive also read that you can fit every human into the state of texas and everyone would have enough room to grow vegetables and keep a pig, cow, sheep and chicken.

therefore....i declare you dont know what your talking about

jameshawkings you beat me to the post ;p . Youtube is full of examples of these nut case control freaks talking abuot killing off 6 billion people.

I would like to add re farming prime land etc statements made by op. You really should examine Permaculture and Aquaculture.

I understand that setup of these sort of systems can be expensive on a wage of a dollar a day to setup. However once established, a food forest needs no maintenance, can be place in the middle of a salt rich desert, and provide unlimited food for a family of 4 per acre of land grown on, much more on good land.

Aquaculture is also amazing, not cheap to setup by third world standards, however very very good return on investment. Needs no quality of land whatsoever, but does cost more than permaculture to setup, in addition requires maintenance.

Using these technologies, TPTB could end world hunger in months, but instead, they sell vaccines and propaganda, try to take away private property and entrust control of it to themselves. Bill Gates and Ted Turned have 'donated' 58 billion between them to these ends between them.

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo

Originally posted by Reaper2137

1.) our current population is around nine billion and continues at an exponential rate. In the next 25-30 years that number will double. We are well over the Earths carrying capacity of 2 billion for the way we live. If we still lived as hunter gathers we could further populate the planet to 40-100 billion but we are too late for that.

you need new sources....theres just under 7 billion on earth right now...now i havnt really researched this much but ive read that earth can comfortably sustain 10 billion humans before we begin to eat more food than we can produce.

and ive also read that you can fit every human into the state of texas and everyone would have enough room to grow vegetables and keep a pig, cow, sheep and chicken.

therefore....i declare you dont know what your talking about

yes I said again and again that just because we have the land doesn't mean we have the resources. That right there shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

yes I'm sure you could fit every man woman and child in Texas but what happens when the population doubles in 20 years? when it doubles again in another 20 years? or did you not notice that in the united states its against the law to grow your own food now?

When the Human population gets this big people don't factor in that 200,000 people are born each day. It adds up really quick.

reply to post by Reaper2137


Dont tell us, tell

China,

India,

Africa.

Everyone else is keeping things at a healthy level. These folks arent. too stupid or too lazy.


Huge population and inability to take care of it.

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo

Originally posted by Reaper2137


and ive also read that you can fit every human into the state of texas and everyone would have enough room to grow vegetables and keep a pig, cow, sheep and chicken.

therefore....i declare you dont know what your talking about

I'm calling bs on this.

My previous post illustrating India in particular says this is bs.

Besides, stay the hell out of my Texas