God (*more specifically, Jesus*), Created the Heavens and Earth.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Hello my friend,

as you know, you have been granted special immunity from my sharp tongue and rational-metaphysicist's wrath, so you can even say 'god' without me frothing around the mouth.

So pretending I didn't see the word 'god', your post (12:55 PM) is 'awesome' as Stan Marsh et al would have said. Being as eccentric as you are, you are still exceedingly sane concerning this subject.



All hail the great noodle master (did I tell you, that I recently converted to secular pastafarianism?)

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

well said my friend!

Though this particular debate is about Jesus being God, the creator... The evidence in the bible that he was in fact God can be overwelming if you do not listen to the one that their claiming is God. If you read others words, its hard to deny... but if you read his words... the story changes.

This is my arguement... that though the evidence from others is huge. What comes from his mouth is not, and in fact quite the opposite. When they push this belief they also deny his words, which is why im here... On the other hand if they said as i've stated many times... "believe whatever you like"... i would not be here to debate as that leaves the door open for others inturpretation.

Either way its lovely to see you here

Always good to pop in my friend. My days of arguments on the matter are over for me. The truth will be distilled through the fires of conflict.

With Love,

Your Brother

Perhaps that is true, but logically speaking.... If Jesus was God, why would those that follow said God deny his own words and push his followers words instead? Thus far this is what has been demonstrated in this thread, then through uselss circle arguements in which the exact same passages are presented over and over... the arguement/debate goes nowhere, and eventually degrades to name calling and personal attacks when they have no place to turn.

I chose the arguement that Jesus spoke of....love for all. In which i can easily defend my postion without the need for said tactics. Unfortunatly they can not do this because Love is not their doctrine... Its more, believe us or be condemed for said lack of belief. Which is my issue here...

I was hoping you might add to this debate honestly... as you are the only person yet on these forums who has actually taught me anything.

All these things were said to be. It is about fulfilling prophecy my friend. It always has been.

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

All I can contribute to this thread past what I already have is this...

If you so much as call your brother raca (fool) you will be guilty of judgement.

Can't you see this truth playing out in this very forum?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by bogomil
Hello my friend,

as you know, you have been granted special immunity from my sharp tongue and rational-metaphysicist's wrath, so you can even say 'god' without me frothing around the mouth.

Why spare me from those things I love most about you?

Originally posted by bogomil
So pretending I didn't see the word 'god', your post (12:55 PM) is 'awesome' as Stan Marsh et al would have said. Being as eccentric as you are, you are still exceedingly sane concerning this subject.

I did not make that post my friend, God did it through me. This is truth.

That should be enough to prove my word to those who understand, label me a heretic, lunatic, or anti-christ to those who do not, and hopefully is enough to bring back the wrath I so admired.

Originally posted by bogomil
All hail the great noodle master (did I tell you, that I recently converted to secular pastafarianism?)

As appropriate a symbol for the divine as any other my friend. May his spaghettiness guide and protect you.

With Love,

You know who

reply to post by IAMIAM

All I can contribute to this thread past what I already have is this...

If you so much as call your brother raca (fool) you will be guilty of judgement.

Can't you see this truth playing out in this very forum?

I did not say such a thing to Raca, quite the contrary actually...

Regardless of what i see, i only hope that others might the "truth" playing out...

I have my doubts

reply to post by IAMIAM

That should be enough to prove my word to those who understand, label me a heretic, lunatic, or anti-christ to those who do not, and hopefully is enough to bring back the wrath I so admired.

What is this wrath you speak of?

Are you trying to say you need a push to start posting more on our forums?

I'll give you that push if thats what you need...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

That should be enough to prove my word to those who understand, label me a heretic, lunatic, or anti-christ to those who do not, and hopefully is enough to bring back the wrath I so admired.

What is this wrath you speak of?

Are you trying to say you need a push to start posting more on our forums?

I'll give you that push if thats what you need...

There is no pushing that would get me on the forums any more than I already am my friend. While the world searches for it's truth, I have found mine in the bosom of a woman. There I will remain until the rest come to an understanding.

Sometimes the truth really is simple. Today I would like a well packed bowl (of cereal) and my woman beside me. That is the truth.

As for the wrath, that was a reference to Bogo's mighty wrath. So fierce is it that I would use it as my stick to beat my enemies, if I had any.

I'll be around Brother, always around.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

As for the wrath, that was a reference to Bogo's mighty wrath. So fierce is it that I would use it as my stick to beat my enemies, if I had any.

That i would not deny, though im not sure if wrath is the correct word.

Im ecstatically happy for you my friend... You found your joy!

Be love... always!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

As for the wrath, that was a reference to Bogo's mighty wrath. So fierce is it that I would use it as my stick to beat my enemies, if I had any.

That i would not deny, though im not sure if wrath is the correct word.

Im ecstatically happy for you my friend... You found your joy!

Be love... always!

edit on 20-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Technically the trick is to bottle up ordinary grumpiness, in Freudianistitistic terms suppress it, until it through accumulated effect reaches critical mass.

Then it can be used for warding off over-enthusiastic fire-and-brimstone preachers. Partly because it through the adrenalin kick gives me courage to resist threats of hell.....and even worse threats of the christian heaven, the last place I want to be.....

and partly because many fire-and-brimstone preachers have a reluctant respect for someone who also can froth around the mouth and call down curses worse than Paulus did.

Which according to some christians (in all honesty I must add... not the thread author) leads to

quote from OP: ["(that taketh away the sin of the world..)"]

Originally posted by Akragon
Im ecstatically happy for you my friend... You found your joy!

Ha! I'll be sure to send you an invitation to the wedding party...

Originally posted by Akragon
Be love... always!

Always!

reply to post by SeekerLou


First of all, Jesus is NOT God.
He didn't create anything... He couldn't create a single fly and yet here you are saying that he created the Heavens and the Earth. Attributing divinity to other than God or turning away the worship due to God to any man is a sign of false doctrine according to Jesus himself.

22:73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from it. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!

This word that your talking about is " BE" it is the Word of God from which all things are generated.

3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

22:52 Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;

22:53 That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened - Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism -

If you really love Jesus, you will follow his true teachings. He NEVER claimed to be other than a man who is inspired by God to remind people about their duty to God.

3:79 It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind: Be slaves of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was): Be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof.

And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3

That's it.. it's a plain road and a plain teaching.. to know that God is only One. "LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH".. Jesus is the Messenger of God.. " JESUS RASUL ALLAH"

Whoever believes and testify that God is only One, and believes in ALL His Messengers will enter Paradise.

Just so you know... because of false interpretation of some passages in the BIBLE that turned Jesus into God or son of God by the instigation of Satan.. Jesus on the Day of Judgment will be asked by God if he indeed taught this to mankind, and in this Day, Jesus will be against those people. Do you want to be one of them?

5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be Ye glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden.

5:117 I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

5:118 If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo! they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise.

5:119 Allah saith: This is a day in which their truthfulness profiteth the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure for ever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph.

Peace!

reply to post by SeekerLou

Yessss you are comprehending some things , which is gr8, but now read THIS and ask just HOW He *Jesus* did this. Notice it talks about His HOLY blood sacrifice on behalf of mankind here.

I was writing up a rely to your post and ended up saving it as a document because it was rather lengthy. I would like to discuss this topic with you and will be starting a thread (hopefully soon) on what the New Covenant is.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

First of all, Jesus is NOT God.
He didn't create anything... He couldn't create a single fly and yet here you are saying that he created the Heavens and the Earth. Attributing divinity to other than God or turning away the worship due to God to any man is a sign of false doctrine according to Jesus himself.

Before Jesus became a man so that it was possible for him to die, he was god, the New Testament says so.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

First of all, Jesus is NOT God.
He didn't create anything... He couldn't create a single fly and yet here you are saying that he created the Heavens and the Earth. Attributing divinity to other than God or turning away the worship due to God to any man is a sign of false doctrine according to Jesus himself.

22:73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from it. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!

This word that your talking about is " BE" it is the Word of God from which all things are generated.

3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

22:52 Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;

22:53 That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened - Lo! the evil-doers are in open schism -

If you really love Jesus, you will follow his true teachings. He NEVER claimed to be other than a man who is inspired by God to remind people about their duty to God.

3:79 It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind: Be slaves of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was): Be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof.

And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3

That's it.. it's a plain road and a plain teaching.. to know that God is only One. "LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH".. Jesus is the Messenger of God.. " JESUS RASUL ALLAH"

Whoever believes and testify that God is only One, and believes in ALL His Messengers will enter Paradise.

Just so you know... because of false interpretation of some passages in the BIBLE that turned Jesus into God or son of God by the instigation of Satan.. Jesus on the Day of Judgment will be asked by God if he indeed taught this to mankind, and in this Day, Jesus will be against those people. Do you want to be one of them?

5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be Ye glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden.

5:117 I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

5:118 If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo! they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise.

5:119 Allah saith: This is a day in which their truthfulness profiteth the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure for ever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph.

Peace!

All this is truth my sister, and this...

5:116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be Ye glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden.

Has come to pass on this very forum.

I hope to see more of your contributions in these threads.

Peace be upon you.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

First of all, Jesus is NOT God.
He didn't create anything... He couldn't create a single fly and yet here you are saying that he created the Heavens and the Earth. Attributing divinity to other than God or turning away the worship due to God to any man is a sign of false doctrine according to Jesus himself.

Before Jesus became a man so that it was possible for him to die, he was god, the New Testament says so.

Could you show me where it says this?

reply to post by Akragon
I'm pretty sure we went through all those verses on this thread.
There is the verse in Philippians that said he emptied himself. He would have had something to empty himself of. It was his being god. Then in Colossians where it says he created all things. I think Hebrews one says the same sort of thing. My point being, as much of a man that he was as Jesus, he was something else before that.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

I'm pretty sure we went through all those verses on this thread.
There is the verse in Philippians that said he emptied himself. He would have had something to empty himself of. It was his being god. Then in Colossians where it says he created all things. I think Hebrews one says the same sort of thing. My point being, as much of a man that he was as Jesus, he was something else before that.

Let me rephrase that then...

Show me where Jesus said this... As you should know.... i couldn't care less what Paul had to say

reply to post by Akragon
Jesus said he had shared in the Father's Glory, so since God created the universe, then Jesus shared in that creation.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus said he had shared in the Father's Glory, so since God created the universe, then Jesus shared in that creation.

Again... passage please

He didn't say that... though he speaks of the glory of God in many cases... But he attributied all glory to God wherein he was glorified as well... God came first, he was never made equal.

reply to post by Akragon

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.

So as to your saying the father came first, if so, it was before creation.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.

So as to your saying the father came first, if so, it was before creation.

Without the father there is no son...

Read it from the start of the chapter...

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Life is eternal my friend... Earth isn't even close to the oldest planet in this universe with life...We are a blink in the history of the universe.... Before this world, we all existed...

So do you proclaim God of this planet? OR God of creation?