God (*more specifically, Jesus*), Created the Heavens and Earth.

page: 32
7
<< 29  30  31    33  34 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 11:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Rustami
 

his purpose was to make one new man out of two

the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever
Here are two verses out of your post I would like to take issue with. First off they are from additional books that were somehow produced after Paul had died, second, they don't have good messages in then, of course as one might expect from a forgery. Inside job, would be a phrase that comes to mind.
The first one seems like it might be the idea of Jesus creating a super religion by combining Jewish and Greek philosophies. That may be something close to what eventually came about but I doubt that was God's plan.
The second one seems to be demoting Jesus from his position as king, and making a sort of invisible god who is constantly meddling in the affairs of men. The 'eternal, immortal' parts may be things designed to lead the unwary into imagining this is the same god the Jews worship.
edit on 15-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 02:02 AM
link   
reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Isn't Samyaza the devil? Lol



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Unvarnished
 


Not sure, I know he is one of the fallen angels, one of the watchers.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 02:07 PM
link   
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Rustami
 

his purpose was to make one new man out of two

the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever

Here are two verses out of your post I would like to take issue with. First off they are from additional books that were somehow produced after Paul had died, second, they don't have good messages in then, of course as one might expect from a forgery. Inside job, would be a phrase that comes to mind.


do you think Jesus should be temporal, visible and mortal or has spoken to anyone since Paul died?


By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

www.biblegateway.com...



The first one seems like it might be the idea of Jesus creating a super religion by combining Jewish and Greek philosophies. That may be something close to what eventually came about but I doubt that was God's plan.
The second one seems to be demoting Jesus from his position as king, and making a sort of invisible god who is constantly meddling in the affairs of men. The 'eternal, immortal' parts may be things designed to lead the unwary into imagining this is the same god the Jews worship.


there are all kinds of assumptions, mis-understandings and opinions about God, gods, Christ Jesus, man, Jews, Greeks, the unwary, scriptures, etc., whats new?
edit on 16-10-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 02:38 PM
link   
reply to post by Rustami
 

do you think Jesus should be temporal, visible and mortal or has spoken to anyone since Paul died?
I'm not even sure what to make of this.
You made a big post where you did not leave the citations, so I highlighted them, one at a time, and used the verse itself as a search term for Google to see what you were quoting, to see if any of it made sense. The two that did not make sense to me without even doing a search, turned out to be from the forged books in the NT going as letters written by Paul. So not too surprising to me that the forged works don't make too much sense to me.
I decided to think of how these would make sense to the forger, and why they would say such things. The enemy of Paul was the Judaizers so I have to check first to see if there was a possible message of that type. I think the possibility is there. You seem to have a somewhat Christian stance but there is this element in your posts that I think people should be aware of.
edit on 16-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:17 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 



I'm not even sure what to make of this.


I gathered that from your first response,
but do think you should start a thread on this "forged" thing though
edit on 16-10-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Isn't Samyaza the devil? Lol


One of the fallen, like above has archangels he would be one of the top angels down there.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by jmdewey60
 



I'm not even sure what to make of this.


I gathered that from your first response,
but do think you should start a thread on this "forged" thing though
There is a thread where I have been discussing this, in the Bible is Infallible thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:54 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 

One of the fallen, like above has archangels he would be one of the top angels down there.
I have gotten away from the concept of fallen angels and think these are just nature spirits and one of those things to stay away from such as that tree in the garden which was of them, that was not planted but grew up from the ground in the midst of it. The angels as represented by the serpent were not fallen but were driven down by a god who was of the sky and was beating down the earth to submit, while all who breath are under his control. Once the creatures cease to breath, then the earth is free to have as it will with them. This god of the air we should know is not God but is really on the very same level as the earth.
god of this world = god of the earth = god of the air
All just natural elements of the universe, which grinds up and recycles everything within it.
edit on 16-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 03:57 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I use fallen because its the most common. They are just spirits sent to live out there time here than up there. But, as you stated, they should be stayed away from as they have no good intentions



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:23 AM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Akragon,

The Day of Judgment is the Day when Our Creator will judge all His Creation justly and no one will be wronged even the weight of an atom. A day of reward and punishment. A day where all the nations will be gathered together with their messengers, each one knowing one another because it will be like we stayed on earth for less than a day. Then the balance will be set up and the Book will be opened and everyone will be judged aright.

13 And every man's augury have We fastened to his own neck, and We shall bring forth for him on the Day of Resurrection a book which he will find wide open.

14 (And it will be said unto him): Read thy Book. Thy soul sufficeth as reckoner against thee this day.

15 Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.
Chapter 17:13-15 The Israelites

10:47 And for every nation there is a messenger. And when their messenger cometh (on the Day of Judgment) it will be judged between them fairly, and they will not be wronged. ( The Prophet Jonah 10:47 Holy Qur'an)

- - - we are the Nation of the Prophet Muhammad ( from the time of his sending to the Day of Judgment)

---- The Spirit of Truth inthe John 16:13 refers to the Prophet Muhammad and Jesus referred to him as a "he". The angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit which God sends to His mortal messengers to bring His Revelations..

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13

16: 2 He sendeth down the angels with the Spirit of His command unto whom He will of His bondmen, (saying): Warn mankind that there is no God save Me, so keep your duty unto Me.

16:102 Say: The holy Spirit hath delivered it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm the faith of those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered to Allah.

42:52 And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path.

- - -

We are ALL a SPIRIT from ALLAH, but Allah chooses from His Creation whom to inspire or reveal His message. Jesus lived a normal life until he reached the age of 30 when God sent the angel Gabriel to him with the Gospel while he was praying at the Mountain of Olives. The Prophet Moses lived until 40 years and the God called him and brought him to Holy Mountain, the Mount Sinai, and the Prophet Muhammad also was 40 years old when the angel Gabriel came to him while he was meditating at the cave Hira in the Mountain of Light.

He said, "The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones; from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
33:2


The succession of the last three Prophets (peace be upon them all) The Prophet Moses, Jesus, and the Prophet Muhammad. The Mount Paran refers to a the Mountain of Light in Mecca where the Prophet MUhammad received God's Revelation.

10 Ramadan 630 AD.This expedition of prophet Muhammad with 10,000 Holy Ones, crushed the head of the wicked house, laying it bare from foundation to roof. That was the end of the idol worshipping, the termination of the age of ignorance and the cessation of the wicked and immoral acts based upon superstitions, in Paran.

'Muhammad, A Biography Of The Prophet' by Karen Armstrong.

- - - the Fiery Law is the Holy Qur'an.

Peace!



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 04:29 PM
link   
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


Whats your point?

You can ramble on about how great Muhamad was, but that doesn't change the fact that i don't know anything about him.

That is why i asked you to post some stuff about him... and specifically when he spoke about Jesus... at least then i can relate.... or not.




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 




Muhamad


specifically when he spoke about Jesus... at least then i can relate.... or not.



Source: Qur''an, God's Word revealed to Muhammad:

quran.com...



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:32 PM
link   
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


I didn't ask you to search for every time his name was mentioned... i could have done that myself.

I asked you to post things about what he taught... according to the Qur"an.

Most of these just proclaim that he was a prophet sent from God... And that is something i already know




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


I didn't ask you to search for every time his name was mentioned... i could have done that myself.

I asked you to post things about what he taught... according to the Qur"an.

Most of these just proclaim that he was a prophet sent from God... And that is something i already know



What he taught according to the Qur'an, is right there. Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the Qur'an. The verses where he is mentioned talk about him or reveal what he taught.
Basically, he tought what ALL previous prophets taught: Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord!
Yet, the sects differed - the account reveals that only a portion of them believed in him and followed the strait path - while most of them did not. Later on, many other factions exaggerated in their beliefs and made Jesus into something he never claimed to be.



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:51 PM
link   
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Every instance i've read in that link you posted gave nothing as to what he taught...

They mention his name in passing, no lessons... Or stories of him.

Perhaps you might show me otherwise if you believe im wrong

edit on 18-10-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 06:32 PM
link   

reply to Akragon



They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord."
5:72

The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
5:75

[The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."

And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, "Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah ]."

when the disciples said, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table [with food] from the heaven? [Jesus] said," Fear Allah , if you should be believers."

They said, "We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses."
Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "O Allah , our Lord, send down to us a table from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers."
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
5:110-116

They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive, And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant. And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute. It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."
19:27-37

And when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad."
61:6

And [We cursed them] ... [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but so it was made to appear to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise. And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.
4:156-159

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son.
4:171

And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
And never let Satan avert you. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me. Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path."

But the denominations from among them differed, so woe to those who have wronged from the punishment of a painful Day.
43:61-65
edit on 18/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 06:45 PM
link   
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Im still not seeing anything he taught...

I see proclaimations, of signs and him being a prophet... and that he brought truth...

So let me ask you then... what was this truth he brought?

What was this "clear proof" some of those passages speak of?

What is the narrow path?




posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Im still not seeing anything he taught...

I see proclaimations, of signs and him being a prophet... and that he brought truth...

So let me ask you then... what was this truth he brought?

What was this "clear proof" some of those passages speak of?

What is the narrow path?



I think you are approaching the Qur'an from the wrong perspective - that of a Gospel or other biblical writings.

The Qur'an is not an account on the life of Jesus or of Muhammad, etc.

It is not something written by some author who then writes a biography about someone.

The Qur'an is also known as "The Criterion" (Al-Furkan) - meaning it is a "litmus test" for previous scriptures.
It is the direct Word of God - His DIRECT SPEECH, not something He "inspired" to someone, and then this someone wrote that in his own "way".

Being a Criterion - one of the main roles of the Qur'an is to correct the corruption and the changes that had been made to the previous scriptures.

You must understand this before we proceed.

So, every time the Qur'an mentions some previous Prophet or something related to them - it is not simply a mention "for fun" - it is always to bring up something that had been changed in the scriptures about them.

So, every time the Qur'an mentions Jesus - it EMPHASIZES things that are relevant about him and which have apparently been distorted.

Jesus was the last messenger of God sent to the Jews and God revealed him the Gospel to be "The Criterion" - so Jesus came TO CORRECT the distortions the Jews had made to the Torah. This is why he called the jewish priests "vipers" and "adulterous generation", etc. He criticized them because they had changed and corrupted the Revelation of God.
So he was sent by God to correct this. They did not like his attitude at all. This is why they attempted to murder him. He was a "dorn" in they eye of the "establishment"!

That is the "truth" he tought. He came to PURIFY the Teachings of Moses - to THROW OUT all the Junk they had inserted there - all the forgeries they had made - all the changed they put there for their OWN personal needs.

The "clear proof" is the truth he brought which was backed by some of the mightiest miracles which God did through him. Yet, THEY STILL DID NOT BELIEVE him and accused him of being a "magician".

They KNEW very well he was telling the truth - oh sure they did - but this truth was not "convenient" for them - because they had changed the Law to suit their purposes and invented slanders and lies against God and against the Prophets.

THAT is the reason they wanted to kill him and not some imaginary tale about him claiming to be God or whatever - because no such thing can be even backed by the Gospels themselves.

Now, when God revealed the Qur'an - it touched upon exactly these matters that were contested - it PURIFIED the teachings of Jesus - and showed what he really taught - which was the same truth as all the prophets - on worshipping the One and only God (Jesus even says the Shema in the Gospels).

While Jews claimed that they KILLED Jesus - thus "boasting" that he was a false prophet (since according to the Bible the one that is hanged is cursed - and since they "hanged" him he could not have possibly been the Messiah) - on the other hand - the followers of Paul and the like - argued that yes they did kill him, but he was resurrected - it is Paul who for the first time brings the condition that Jesus HAD TO HAVE DIED and resurrected otherwise their "faith would be in vain" - this was never taught by the disciples of Jesus.
And this is another matter which the Qur'an corrects - by certifying tha Jews indeed did not succeed to kill him - God is acquitting Jesus - and confirming he was indeed His Messenger - while at the same time - by certifying that he was neither killed nor crucified - He nullifies tha tall tales of Paul & Co. about Jesus being "more than human" etc.

You see, Qur'an has a subtle way to put emphasis on some things which have been grossly corrputed in the Bible.
So, for example - when the Bible talks about the Creation - it says "God RESTED on the seventh Day". As if God can get tired and needs rest?!
Such a blender is corrected in the Qur'an - here God also talks about the Creation - but look at the emphasis at the end of the verse:


And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness. - Qur'an, 50.38


At the first glance it is the same thing as in the Bible - so God says he created the universe in six days - but notice the emphasis in the last part - this is a direct answer of God to the blasphemy which is to be found in the Creation story in the Bible.

Another example:
The whole "paulian" blunder about Jesus being the "lamb" and that he had to "pay the price" for our sins - is
edit on 18/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)
edit on 18/10/2011 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:37 PM
link   
cont:

based on the Creation story, where Paul relies on the false info in the Bible that Adam sinned and therefore WE ALL are born sinners.

Yet, he completely ignores numerous verses in the same Bible where God clearly says that NO ONE shall bare the sins of another! The sons shall not be responsible for the sins of their fathers, etc.

So, the Qur'an - to correct this uses one verse - it is THE SAME story about Adam, and Eve and Satan, etc. but with one "minor" difference. Look at what God emphasizes:


Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. 2:37


Look, such a small yet VERY RELEVANT details - which has been lost from the Bible: GOD FORGAVE ADAM!
Thus - there IS NO ORIGINAL SIN.

Look at all the Myths about fallen angels and satan being an angel who disobeyed God, etc, etc. Yet, we thought angels were servants of God who cannot disobey him.
So, how come Satan could do it.

In many places in the Qur'an, God talks about this and says that he ordered angels to prostrate to Adam, BUT SATAN REFUSED.
The implication being: Satan was among the angels!
This is repeated many time. Except ONE:


And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn. 18:50


With this one verse - God is correcting the slandes that crept in the Bible about angels who did horrible things, disobeyed God and what not - by showing that Satan (Iblis) had indeed a high rank - but HE WAS NOT AN ANGEL.

This is the function of the Qur'an. It CORRECTS the previous revelations of God and purifies them - bringing them back to their original form.

Once you see this - you will have a PERFECTLY clear picture about God, the Prophets, Jesus, etc. It is a constant Path - which never changed and was the same for all the prophets in all the times:

The Belief in ONE God alone, who has no sons, no daughters, does not share his personality with anyone, is Absolute and Perfect.






top topics



 
7
<< 29  30  31    33  34 >>

log in

join