Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

Simple answer to a simple question...

Because no matter what the odds are the Earth was created by chance. Is far better odds than your version of God is even slightly close to the truth. And all other versions are wrong.

A million of the smartest religious Men, thinking for a Million years would still never get it right.

In fact the theory of Evolution would be a better reflection of what God is ( if it existed ) than any limited idea you have.

Here is a question for the OP....

What would you have taught to your children.

(a) Here read this book. It has all the answers to everything. Everything in the book is set in concrete and asking questions or "thinking" is not allowed. Every word is fact. I repeat do not think, just believe.

(b) Here is an idea. It is not complete yet, we are still working out all the details ( never ending task ) but the outline is there for you to imagine and explore. Go forward and use your brain.

Yes, Children should be taught all possibilities.

So, alongside the Genesis account they MUST also be taught that the Earth was formed from the body of the dragon Tiamat after it was killed by the god Marduk, that the human race was formed after the first brother hit his sister with a fish and told her to multiply and that the gods made the first 4 men out of the dough of corn meal. And several hundred other different accounts.

Originally posted by lifeform11
if atheism is a belief then whats wrong with teaching my children it if you are free to teach yours your belief?

You are certainly allowed to teach your children about atheism. 99.99% of the kids in the public schools aren't your children. (or 100% as the case may be.)

Originally posted by lifeissacred
Kids shouldn't be influenced to believe in anything, especially God. Personally I believe in God, I made this decision by myself, it's an entirely personal matter and should not be part of a school curriculum. Children should be taught logic, reason and fact from fiction. Belief in God is neither an issue of fact or fiction it is purely opinion and speculation hence it has no place in school.

Yet they are taught that THERE IS NO GOD, which is not the same thing. If not overtly in words, then implicitly through the totality of the curriculum, the bias of the teachers, the immorality of other students which goes unchallenged, and the policies which punish any deist religion, while enforcing the non-deist religion (atheism.)

I realize that it may not be an easy task to have a public school system which correctly addresses the issue of differences in religion, but the first step would be to recognize atheism as a religion, or if nothing else as a competing shared set of beliefs and god concepts, rather than allowing it to be enforced by default, and have preferential treatment it certainly does not deserve.

reply to post by Observer99


there are no atheism lessons in school, what are you talking about? which lesson teaches there is certainly no god?
if we want to level the field on beliefs, then atheism needs to expand into church type buildings and create lots of t.v. shows based on atheism, all tax exempt.

Originally posted by lifeform11
there are no atheism lessons in school

Evolution as unquestionable fact = atheism lesson
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson
Sex education with a completely amoral perspective = atheism lesson
Gay & lesbian lifestyle presentations to middle schoolers = atheism lesson
Immoral behavior and banter of fellow students going unchallenged = atheism lesson
Punishment of any student for wearing religious attire, acting on or speaking about religious beliefs = atheism lesson

Again, I could ENVISION a public school system which would be non-religious, would teach what you claim to care about (provable scientific facts) and not be hostile to deist religions. But that is not the system we have. We have a system which IS hostile to deist religions, and it's for the reasons I described earlier.

Everybody should, by now, realize the OP is about abiogenesis, because that is the imaginative idea being taught in our classrooms across the country. What part of that theory has factual observances in it? Why is this being mentioned to our children? Why not say, we don't know what caused the origin of life, and leave the non-life to life argument out of it?

Originally posted by Observer99
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson

We have a system which IS hostile to deist religions, and it's for the reasons I described earlier.

How is teaching about contraception "atheist"? I can only off hand think of one sect of one religion which specifically teaches against contraception?

And incidently, most followers of most religions do not today believe in stone age creation myths.

If you do, the fine. But do not try and force your primitive beliefs on others.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Observer99
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson

We have a system which IS hostile to deist religions, and it's for the reasons I described earlier.

How is teaching about contraception "atheist"?

To teach you about contraception, I have to GIVE YOU a condom?? How would you teach them about drug use, sell them drugs? (you probably support free, clean heroin needle replacement .. I really bet you do...)

Teaching about contraception = excellent. Please, by all means do that.
Giving kids condoms = making the statement "we know you are going to have sex, we condone your behavior and to prove it we will give you the tools to make it happen."

If you can't even understand the distinction between the above, you have a ways to go before you can sensibly debate this.

Originally posted by addygrace
Why are kids being taught in school, to believe life on earth was absolute fortuitous eventuation that on the face of it leaves God out of the equation? Wouldn't this actually be a form of religious imagination intruding on the minds of our kids? If we are going to teach origins in school, then all origins should have equal footing.


By only allowing one view on origins, we are basically killing any chance for our kids to discover critical thinking skills, rather than just following the imagination of another human being.

I'm being wheedled in perpetuum to home school my children, by what used to be regular old lassitude from those who hold the keys to the education system. Now I see this nefariousness is a calculated total disregard for the rights of the children, and for the total abrogation of God. If it's just the observable that's being taught in the Science classes, then why even entertain any imaginative idea of origins? It's actually oxymoronic, in that it masquerades as a viable scientific idea, yet it's the exact opposite.

Right im Guessing by all origins you mean all origins? not just Christian based creationism??

Like im guessing you want the kids to be taught about the Islamic religon, Jewish religon as seperate creationist stories from christian... then to further that myan creation stories summerian etc.??

of do you mean Christian? if so surley that religous bias? and if your ok with religous bias then im ok with not teaching kids any creationist stories and just teaching them what science undertsands

reply to post by Observer99


How has any of that got to do with atheism?

I personal disapprove of the way we teach kids to have sex, but that's a seperate issue and nothing to do with religion! Yours or mine.

Originally posted by Observer99
You will never convince the arrogant atheist that he may be wrong, and that alternate theories should be considered. The modern school system most certainly has a religion, and that religion is atheism. Contradicting it is heresy.

I mean, what do you expect? Atheists won't even admit that their belief structure and mentality has all the hallmarks of religion and thus is a religion. They're in denial about the most basic thing about their beliefs, don't expect that they can comprehend anything higher.

i hate it when comments like this pop up. Pointless ad hominims that flame up the thread to ash. Why bother attacking athiests, why not also agnostics or naturalists or humanists? All those make up a lot of non-believers.

I say this because you are talking skeptic vs believer here, and on the subject of origins, a believer in creation stories did not come to that conclusion because it was an "obvious" answer, they come to the conclusion from a "lack of" answers and fall back on which ever idea was laid first. Ex. Creation stories.

Some fundamental creationists wouldnt accept it if microbial life was found on another planet

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by lifeform11
there are no atheism lessons in school

Evolution as unquestionable fact = atheism lesson
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson
Sex education with a completely amoral perspective = atheism lesson
Gay & lesbian lifestyle presentations to middle schoolers = atheism lesson
Immoral behavior and banter of fellow students going unchallenged = atheism lesson
Punishment of any student for wearing religious attire, acting on or speaking about religious beliefs = atheism lesson

Again, I could ENVISION a public school system which would be non-religious, would teach what you claim to care about (provable scientific facts) and not be hostile to deist religions. But that is not the system we have. We have a system which IS hostile to deist religions, and it's for the reasons I described earlier.

Condoms in the bathroom has nothing to do with religon... and "i could envision a public school system which would be non-religou, would teach what you claim to care about provable scientific facts and not be hostile to deist religions" you just said that?? but condoms in schools bathrooms prevent the spread of disease, scientific fact, this has nothing to do with god or no god, this has to do with the spread of disease?

"Sex education with a completely amoral perspective = atheism lesson" this is a flawed statement too, you can only teach sex education with an amoral perspective or it is a reliogous class and not a sex eduction class... sex is not amoral... it actually creeps me out when people want to bring god into a conversation about procreation!

My son attends a public school in Wales - where he is taught both viewpoints. What it simply does is to show and recognise that both are a possibility. There are no religious texts , but there is a short prayer at assembly and some basic stories of religion.

MSM and TPTB sure have done a great job at convincing most of you that a belief in God is somehow wrong. Oh yeh, I forgot.... They would rather have you believe that aliens created us...and it's worked!

So all of you screaming "it's far more likely that aliens created us" have now bought hook line and sinker into the basis of a new RELIGION.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
My son attends a public school in Wales - where he is taught both viewpoints. What it simply does is to show and recognise that both are a possibility. There are no religious texts , but there is a short prayer at assembly and some basic stories of religion.

MSM and TPTB sure have done a great job at convincing most of you that a belief in God is somehow wrong. Oh yeh, I forgot.... They would rather have you believe that aliens created us...and it's worked!

So all of you screaming "it's far more likely that aliens created us" have now bought hook line and sinker into the basis of a new RELIGION.

so you are saying beleiving either is wrong?? new reliogn or old religon, still based on guess work and interpretation?

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by lifeform11
there are no atheism lessons in school

Evolution as unquestionable fact = atheism lesson
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson
Sex education with a completely amoral perspective = atheism lesson
Gay & lesbian lifestyle presentations to middle schoolers = atheism lesson
Immoral behavior and banter of fellow students going unchallenged = atheism lesson
Punishment of any student for wearing religious attire, acting on or speaking about religious beliefs = atheism lesson

Again, I could ENVISION a public school system which would be non-religious, would teach what you claim to care about (provable scientific facts) and not be hostile to deist religions. But that is not the system we have. We have a system which IS hostile to deist religions, and it's for the reasons I described earlier.

none of those teach atheism, at all. what you seem to have a problem with is anything being taught that you might disagree with.

reply to post by Observer99


Great post. For all the claims that teaching children that a belief in God, or even about different religions, is INDOCTRINATION, they cannot see that the promotion of any other belief (atheism - alien creation - evolution) is INDOCTRINATION as well.

reply to post by GonzoSinister


No to your question. My point is that INDOCTRINATION is INDOCTRINATION. One belief has been slowly but surely removed from Western society, and is being replaced by beliefs that SOMEONE wants you to believe in. Whether you believe in that new RELIGION is your choice. But just beware that it is a concerted and patient effort to get you to believe in something else (e.g. Not God)

Originally posted by Observer99

Originally posted by lifeform11
there are no atheism lessons in school

Evolution as unquestionable fact = atheism lesson
Condoms in the bathroom = atheism lesson
Sex education with a completely amoral perspective = atheism lesson
Gay & lesbian lifestyle presentations to middle schoolers = atheism lesson
Immoral behavior and banter of fellow students going unchallenged = atheism lesson
Punishment of any student for wearing religious attire, acting on or speaking about religious beliefs = atheism lesson

i'll reply again to ask some more questions.
how does believing in evolution or being made aware about the theory or other possibility stop me believing in god?

how does using a condom stop me believing in god?

how is sex education going to stop me beliving in god?

how is being gay or lesbian going to stop me believing in god?

no idea what you mean by immoral banter etc. i will assume swearing and dirty talk, again how does that stop me believing in god?

how does removing objects or hiding them during school time stop me believing in god?

if i was aware of evoultion as being one of the ways life started, was gay and used condoms, learnt sex education so that i practice safe sex and can identify sexual disease, swore alot and wore no objects identifying my belief but believed in god, then what?

what if only a few of those things applied to me but i believed in god? how is it athesim?