The Jihad is in full swing, id say were already loosing. Religion of peace?

reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D


What about the horrendous taxes non Muslims have to pay in Muslim countries? that's in the Quran too.

Further evidence of the power of the Islamic nations is seen at the UN

The Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC), a group of 57 Muslim majority nations, holds the largest voting bloc in the UN.The OIC Secretary General, Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, is the one who congratulated Obama on his inauguration, and appealed for the new president's help to work out problems that face the Muslim world.

In 1990, the OIC adopted the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam at the nineteenth Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers on August 5, 1990 dictating that Islam is the only legitimate religion.

The ACLJ said, in promotion of its petition opposing the resolution, that: "They're attempting to pass a sinister resolution that is nothing more than blatant religious bigotry."

It is very important to understand. This radical proposal would outlaw Christianity ... it would make the proclamation of your faith an international crime."

After Bush resisted years of such initiatives at the UN, the Obama Administration is co-sponsoring with Egypt, another anti-free speech resolution at the UN. (this has already happens a couple of years ago now)

This resolution has no immediate effect in law but provides Muslim countries with ammunition when they feel central tenets of Islam are being challenged. Approved by the U.N. Human Rights Council in early October 2009, it calls on states to condemn and criminalize "any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence."

The real hate and discrimination is directed against non-Muslims in the UN Defamation of Religion. The U.S. has no business participating in alliances and organizations that endorse a specific religion or in any way limits free speech. Against all the freedoms enjoyed and valued in the West, if we remain members of the UN, we will not only be assimilated into a one-world government, but a Shari'ah one-world government that dictates everything from finances to personal and religious rights. All that the Constitution stands for is being mocked and abused by even allowing such an organization to convene on American soil.

Much more at www.rightsidenews.com...

Originally posted by pikestaff
reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D

 

What about the horrendous taxes non Muslims have to pay in Muslim countries? that's in the Quran too.

That is true. Jews and Christians could continue to practise their faith in Muslim dominated countries but only if they paid the Jizya. They were also not allowed to ride a horse (a donkey was fine) and couldn't carry weapons to defend themselves.

en.wikipedia.org...

Historically Christians and Jews very much second class citizens in Muslim countries. The tradition continues to this day. Christians are not allowed to be officers in the Iranian armed forces due to it being improper for a non Muslim to give a Muslim orders.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by megawattboss
THE QU'RAN MAKES A POINT OF EXPLICITLY DENOUNCING THE FORCEFUL CONVERSION OF OTHER PEOPLE; the reverse is never true and never will be true.

Can you give us some sources to back that up?

It is my understanding that it is the people of the book (Jews & Chritisians) who are exempt from forceful conversion.

"To you be your way, and to me be mine." (109:6)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion." (2:256)

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

"Let there be no compulsion in religion." (2:256)

Yet that passage was written when Muhammad was starting out as a prophet and weak.

Later when he was powerful, he changed his tune.

3:85, If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him;

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

So which is it?

The earlier verse in which there is no compulsion or the later passages in which there is?

According to Islamic doctrine, both are correct. Go figure.

Originally posted by iBleedSovietR3D
reply to post by kro32

 

yes, theres a reason i made this thread and i explained in the OP. To warn so people can be prepared and know how to take action. Like I stated before the leader of al qaeda has publicly stated the Jihad is in full swing.

Id also like to apologize for some stupid remarks i've made here to people simply stating their opinion and a rude comment i made above, which im deleting.

You need to understand that Ive been to afghanistan twice and have had many many many very close friends and two brothers killed by extremists over there. To see this first hand starts a fire in my heart that just doesn't want to go out, and throws fuel to the flames when I see things like constant suicide bombings in the UK and then a demand for Sharia Law to take affect.

Really though I just want to say I apologize. Not for the OP, because this is something I whole heartedly believe in but my replys to posts. Like I was saying, Ive just had to many friends and family killed "in the name of allah" and it hurts me constantly. Sorry guys

Eh? Where are all these constant suicide bombings in the UK? Are you referring to 7/7? As shocking as that was, it was several years ago now.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

"Let there be no compulsion in religion." (2:256)

Yet that passage was written when Muhammad was starting out as a prophet and weak.

Later when he was powerful, he changed his tune.

3:85, If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him;

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissention) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.

So which is it?

The earlier verse in which there is no compulsion or the later passages in which there is?

According to Islamic doctrine, both are correct. Go figure.

In regards to 3:85, that verse is parralel to the Christian view of those who don't accept Christ as the son of God. Never will it be accepted of him by God.

As for 8:39 it would more accurately be translated as "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

See, I think the problem is the fact that you simultaneously try to interpret Qur'an while discrediting it, and that doesn't work. From the jump, if you don't believe it to be the word of God then why even try to interpret it? Of course you would attribute the entire revelation to be generated in the mind of the Messenger Muhammad.

One thing you seem to forget, is that after the Prophet, his family, and his close companions fled Makkah to Medina, they were STILL persecuted by the tribe of Quraish due to the percieved threat Islam was to their entire way of life. So Muhammad was still a target of the Quraish and other pagan tribes in the region, however he was no longer living among them, so he was able to become strong enough to fight back at the people who repeatedly tried to kill him.

First of all, let's all realize the fact that the word infidel is one of Christian origin used to describe non-Christians. Additionally, NOWHERE IN THE QURAN IS A WORD EQUIVALENT IN NEGATIVITY AS THE WORD INFIDEL USED TO DESCRIBE NON MUSLIMS, ESPECIALLY NON-BELIEVERS IN GENERAL

Also worth noting is that ISLAM AFFORDS SPECIAL CONSIDERATION TO THE CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH FAITHS (ironic that they damn Islam for intolerance in light of the fact their scripture makes a point of saying that the Jewish and Christian faiths are based in validity)

Most if not all the verses are out of context, and a great deal of them refer specifically to the time period when Muhammad's followers were being persecuted. Not only did this continue from Mecca on to when he lived in Madina all the way back to when he retook Mecca, but you are either effective at using propaganda or ignorant in not knowing the chronology of the Quran's verses. THERE IS NO PART OF THE QURAN THAT TAKES PLACE IN MECCA AND THERE IS NO PART OF THE QURAN THAT TAKES PLACE IN MADINA. THE QURAN FOLLOWS A NON LINEAR CHRONOLOGY AND ITS VERSES GO FROM THE BEGINNING, MIDDLE, AND END OF MUHAMMAD'S TIME AS A PROPHET THROUGHOUT THE TEXT.

Now, with regards to conversion, I'm going to amass some quotes (incidentally, why is it that you do not have to prove that Islam forces ALL non-jewish, non-christian people to convert?):

"For, had God so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community; however, He lets go astray him that wills [to go astray], and guides aright him that wills [to be guided]; and you will surely be called to account for all that you ever did!" (Qur'an, 16:93)"

God speaks with regards to creating an ethnically and culturally diverse world.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Qur'an, 2:256)

God says that there should be no element of compulsion (meaning compulsion of any kind and including forceful conversion)

Since we have two quotes that stand as the word of God in the Islamic faith that

1. God purposely created a multi cultural/multi ethnic world and expects many to go astray and many to not go astray
and
2. God wills it that there be no compulsion in religion because the "truth stands out clear from error"

I don't understand how the supposed word of God would completely contradict itself. Perhaps you can show me the quotes that prove forced conversion is encouraged in any way shape or form.

Anybody with a decent head on their shoulders can reason out the individual violence quotes as out of context, but if you would like me to go one by one through those I can.

Originally posted by iBleedSovietR3D
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

Actually buddy the definition of martyr is someone who outgoes great suffering, or death in order to carry out ones beliefs. In this case, a suicide bombing. Jesus, read a book. just to give you a hint- you have to read and grasp the rest of a sentence in order to see how a word is being used.

You do know that the early Christian saints are martyrs because they died upholding their beliefs don't you? How many of them caused great suffering or death (with the possible exception of the Maid of Orleans)

Originally posted by something wicked
Eh? Where are all these constant suicide bombings in the UK? Are you referring to 7/7? As shocking as that was, it was several years ago now.

Check out MI5s website. Not suicide bombings but Islamic plots to kill nonetheless.

www.mi5.gov.uk...

The list of notable terrorist offences listed on the web site all appear to be Islamic terrorism

* 27 February 2002

Moinul Abedin was sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment after being convicted of making large amounts of detonators and the explosive HMTD in a Birmingham house.

* 1 April 2003

Leicester residents Brahim Benmerzouga and Baghdad Merziane were each sentenced to 11 years' imprisonment for their roles in fundraising for Al Qaida and other extremist groups.

* 1 March 2005

Saajit Badat was imprisoned for 13 years following his admission that he had plotted with jailed shoe-bomber Richard Reid to destroy an airliner over the Atlantic.

* 13 April 2005

Kamel Bourgass was convicted of plotting to commit a public nuisance by the use of poisons and/or explosives to cause disruption, fear or injury. He was already serving a life sentence for the murder of PC Stephen Oake.

* 7 February 2006

Radical London cleric Abu Hamza was convicted of incitement to murder and sentenced to 7 years.

* 7 November 2006

Al Qaida operative Dhiren Barot was sentenced to a minimum of 30 years' imprisonment after admitting a plot to attack UK and US targets using a "dirty bomb" and gas-filled limousines.

* 30 April 2007

Five men were imprisoned for life after being convicted of a plot to attack targets such as shopping centres and nightclubs using fertiliser-based explosives; two others were acquitted.

* 15 June 2007

Seven men were jailed for a total of 136 years for their involvement in Dhiren Barot's "dirty bomb" plot and "Gas Limos Project".

* 5 July 2007

Three men were imprisoned for up to 10 years after being convicted of using the Internet to promote terrorism.

* 11 July 2007

The four would-be suicide bombers of 21 July 2005 were given life sentences following their convictions on charges of conspiracy to murder. A fifth man involved in the plot was convicted in November 2007.

* 26 July 2007

Five students were convicted on charges of possessing material for terrorist purposes with the intention of going to terrorist training camps in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

* 9 Jan 2008

Sohail Anjum Qureshi, an Al Qaida-trained terrorist intent on carrying out an act of terrorism overseas, was jailed for four and a half years.

* 18 February 2008

Five conspirators were convicted of plotting to kidnap and behead a British soldier and were sentenced to terms of between two years and life.

* 17 December 2008

Bilal Abdulla, an Iraqi citizen who worked in a hospital in Paisley, Scotland, was sentenced to 32 years' imprisonment for his role in terrorist attacks carried out in London and Glasgow International Airport in June 2007.

* 14 September 2009

In one of a series of trials, three men who plotted in 2006 to blow up aircraft mid-flight between the UK, America and Canada by using liquid explosives were jailed for life.

* 8 July 2010

Ibrahim Savant, Arafat Khan and Waheed Zaman were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment for conspiracy to murder persons unknown. By this point a total of twelve people had been convicted in seven trials for terrorism-related offences in connection with the 2006 aircraft bomb plot.

* 2 November 2010

Roshonara Choudhry, a student from East London, was convicted of attempting to murder the MP Stephen Timms after being inspired by extremist sermons she had watched on the Internet.

reply to post by ollncasino


Looking at the first one in context:

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

we see this clearly refers to God not accepting of a man that they were not of his faith and condemning him to the punishments of the hereafter. How is this any different from Christianity? Or any religion with a hell concept.

And again, CONTEXT for the second one:

"Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease [persecution of Muhammad's followers] that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
8:39 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do."

This, once again, like basically every "violent" quote is God encouraging Muhammad and his followers to to self defence against their many persecutors during the infancy of the religion.

reply to post by ollncasino


EXPERT DEFLECTION lol against an amateur, I'm sure

Tell me, what impact does this knowledge (assuming every single piece of it is 100% true the way it is presented) have on any single person's interpretation of the Quran?

The answer is nothing.

What does this knowledge have an impact on? The feelings of sensationalism that most readily pierce the public's consciousness.

reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D


The Bible, the guide book to Christianity is not any better, stoning people to death for one.

"For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For breaking the Sabbath

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56"

And yes Christ did talk about kill people who opposed him.

""I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35).

All religion that focuses one god above all others are like this. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam( the top three), the call to Jihad has been going since the beginning of the religion, so in the next 2000 years maybe something will happen.

I believe that deep in the heart of most Muslims, they approve suicide bombing because self-sacrifice for the good of Allah is something that is commonly supported through-out the Quran. Therefore Muslims may not see terrorism the same way others do. They think that strapping up a 12 year old with bombs to go blow up their 'enemies' is a good enough cause. They don't value human life the same way others do.

reply to post by laiguana


I can't stress this enough... and you probably won't even listen because you've convinced yourself of your opinion.. but SUICIDE IS FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM!

reply to post by laiguana


Lmao.

And you support Israel's existence right? Besides Israel, there are currently few places outside of Africa whose peoples and governments participate in acts of such a diametrically opposed nature to the idea of valuing human life.

I don't condone the violence on either side, but I'd say the ones that bulldoze homes, shoot kids throwing rocks with live ammunition, continue to take land that never belonged to them until someone that was not living in Palestine decided it was theirs, and bulldoze children with tanks are the main aggressors in such a conflict.

What's sad is people are to busy being politically correct to see the truth. Instead they will accuse you of being an Islam basher whenever you point out these teachings.

Originally posted by 547000
What's sad is people are to busy being politically correct to see the truth. Instead they will accuse you of being an Islam basher whenever you point out these teachings.

Considering the OP didn't cite any accurate teachings, and quoted verses completely out of context, I think it qualifies as attempted bashing.

reply to post by 547000


What's sad is you didn't even bother to read any of the topics concerning this or the verses or the history behind the verses and their context and then proclaimed judgment upon those who did bother educating themselves with an open heart and an open mind.

Because if you did, you would see that the specific textual references seem a lot less sinister when the quotes aren't chopped up and dropped out of context.

reply to post by megawattboss


Explain to me how these verses are wrong when the religiously muslim countries put them into practice. Hmm, maybe they're ignorant too, I take it? Or maybe you are taking a super liberal interpretation, like those Christians who deny that there is a hell.