What Are We Capable Of - THIS IS ANONYMOUS!

I just wanted to add a response to those discussing a "peoples revolution". Such things have occurred MANY times in the past and surely we need to learn from our mistakes?

Tearing down a government without having a strong positive idea to put in its place, is just going to lead to the same situation or worse, it is essentially pleasant sounding phraseology masking a path to anarchy.

It does need tearing down, but surely we need the vision of a better future first?

Some sort of global voting system? This would only work if every single person had access to 100% of information and actually WANTED responsibility for their own actions, I don't see this as likely to happen.

The sad reality is that it looks like mankind will end up splitting, the individual becoming further and further isolated from the media, from society, from laws.

Maybe secession is the only answer? I don't know, I just want to get discussion going this way.

In terms of Anonymous, my opinion is this: The methods are good, great respect for all people, but similar to my opinions on a peoples revolution I believe without strong, positive, guiding ideals, a movement might as well not exist at all.

So, what I think we need is more and more ideas, more and more communication, more inspiration, more THOUGHT, and less fear of being ostracised, less fear of being separated from the masses.

The majority of humanity is emotionally driven, not intellectually, and therefore, with the right charge can be driven to overcome anything, this is why the right ideas first are so important!

Unfortunately I can't envision this perfect society myself, though I can see how parts of it may work.

I have hope.

Hey anon...

Here's a nice, small target to focus on:

The quiet little genocide on our back door

Clean this up, and you'll find more credability!

Originally posted by Ewok_Boba
reply to post by beezzer

 

Then by your silly analogy, the targets of anonymous are the websites of innocent people. Do you even know what they do?

Exactly. Because I was argueing under the impression that Anon is not a nice element.

reply to post by StruggleTogether

If the government decides to shut down the internet guess what will happen? A huge ****storm of protesting. Too many people rely on the internet not just for entertainment, but for business. When you take away a mans ability to pay for food, that man will do whatever it takes to get it.

Watch the Lyrics !!!

Disturbed - ten thousand fists


Original

Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists Video




V for Vendetta Music Video - Ten Thousand Fists - Disturbed

reply to post by PeasantRebellion


This is my very first post. But all I want to say is that this is the start of something amazing. I don't see how people can think this has something to do with the gov't. But we see what we see right? Anyways great video!

reply to post by Druid42


lol dude
it's from the v for vendetta movie

Originally posted by beezzer
Beezzer's final thoughts on this thread.
We could continue, back and forth. But I'm seeing something here. Something I'm very familiar with.

When I defend the Tea Party, people are saying that it's been hi-jacked, that I and as an extension the Tea Party, is being used.

Being on the other "side" of the arguement has been enlightening. I've used the same accusations, and have heard the same responses from you folks that I have used to defend something I believe in.

Funny thing though. Whether or not Anon is a government op or a group of freedom fighters bravely fighting the system with nobility and honour; the fact remains that government is going to push for more regulation on the internet.
Regardless.

I'll fight it my way.
You folks fight it your way.

We have to remember we do have a common enemy in this.

Cheers.

Beez

Exactly. Because I was argueing under the impression that Anon is not a nice element.

Beezer I fought the temptation while catching up on the thread to tear in to you, I know that you are Tea Party and was going to use that exact analogy in an attempt to get through to you.

I am completely impressed with you at this moment, and give you much respect, for it is not every day that you can read in a single thread someone's eyes opening and it takes an even bigger person to actually say it.

You not only changed your mind today, but you have changed my opinion of you.

The bottom line is do what ever it is that you do to fight the system, to try and bring sanity back to this insane world, but you have to do something, apathy will not make it happen.

What Anon and these other "hacker" groups are attempting to do is create an environment in which they make the rules and laws. With everything becoming more and more interconnected and wireless modules become more sophisticated and modular, they are attempting to bait the government into locking the Internet down so they have free reign to do what ever they want.

With a free and open Internet they are as equal and prone to attack and defeat as any other "army"(for lack of a better word) with a free Internet some brilliant kid that is awesome at sociology can expose them for what they are with no programming experience. Every "hacker" will tell you hacking is more about social skill and understanding the system that you are attempting to hack than anything else. Most "hackers" get pass codes and access because they simply talked a person with access into allowing them access. Then their coding skill makes up for the rest. And hacking also involves a lot of reading and a deep understanding of how systems work so they can develop exploits that capitalize upon these weaknesses.

Programmers(or as they like to refer to themselves, "coders") are brilliant at what they do and like top scientist, not many people are able to do what they do. We also know through the experience and fact that the Mob has teamed up with these "hackers" because it is a multi-billion dollar industry. If you make it to where people cannot be anonymous online then the only people that will be anonymous are the people that have the right connections and know how to stay under the radar. It will also put peoples lives at risk because by law everyone will have to display their real name, or some variation there of.

Regulating the internet in this manner is exactly what they want. Because it is putting the ball firmly in their court of giving them the upper hand even above the government, you can then be faced with the situation of having an army of "black hats"(a term given to a criminal "cracker") posing to work for the government. Collecting a government paycheck when really their working for the highest bidder and with all weapons being increasingly connected through internet like communications they can control our advanced weaponry. It has already happened on a smaller but still important scale. The story of Kevin Poulsen.

The only way to positively secure the internet for government communications is for the government to have it's own Internet infrastructure right down to the physical servers and T3 cable. With a strict policy of the way physical information is handled. The reason why "hackers" say any network and computer can be compromised is because all it would take is for the admin of the system to leave his password laying on his desk. Or for that admin to be tricked into giving his password unknowingly.

As it stands right now they are using reverse psychology on us. Make the people that don't know any better seem like they are fighting for a good cause to garner support, and be enough of a nuisance for the government to do something about the problems they are creating, but in such a way that they get the government to act when they want them too.

Problem - Reaction - Solution.

It's the same with Net Neutrality. Get the government to regulate the huge corporations and the real power brokers of the internet(search engines) get to pick and choose what gets to the top of their search engines by government decree(law).

Anon and the other groups are simply doing what Crackers, Hackers, Coders, and everyone else in between do best. Running a psychological mind game on the world so they can have the freedom to rob loot and steal as they wish.

At the risk of seeming too blunt, they are simply using everyones ignorance of how hacking is actually done against us. Everyone thinks it's all this voodoo and magic coding that allows them to be do what they do, but in reality 9 times out of 10 they are talking their way right into these systems, no code involved and in some instances even physically breaking into a place to obtain information or to gain physical access to the system for either that day or for future access.

They are currently hacking the government right now and they are winning because they have created the problem, they have gotten the government to react and now they are just waiting on the solution.

Problem - Reaction - Solution.

Edit To add:

The first thing a hacker will tell you if you ask him how to do something, is to research it yourselves. Then when confronted with evidence it is standard procedure to, deny, deflect, deny, deflect in hopes that a solid case can't be built. That is why when the threat of physical violence works so well with these people to get your information. But as far as the Kevin Paulson story goes you can read his book of his own personal story Just type in "Hacker Kevin Paulson" into google search and you'll find it.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by The Old American

 

No I have never stubbed my toe and thought it was the most important pain in the world.. not even close.
I would love to see proof backing up these claims that anonymous hit a bank in a backwater town. Actually that would more likely be the governments agenda.. get a bunch of flag flying, old 'muricans such as yourself to hate anonymous because of something as silly as a day late payment.

Actually I would like to just call out right now that I think it's complete bull[snip]. There was never a little old lady that couldn't access her money. It's just propaganda.

edit on 11-7-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Yeah, flag waving, freedom loving, rights protecting old idiots like me. Man, oh, man, I'm completely behind the times. I didn't realize I was supposed to support the fascist methods of Anonymous. I'll see if I can remedy that.

The only proof I have is that the day "OMGLOL atack a bnak" day happened I got a call from the bank manager from the bank I mentioned. I do have the internal ticket number that I created for his outage, but you can't have it. And I took care of it (too late to really help because he called late in the day) with the commands I entered on the edge router to null route the person that did it. You might guess what industry I work in and how I will combat Anon.

I don't really give two craps what you call it. I never said there was a specific old lady, genius. I know the bank has over 1,000 customers, though. And that it's statistically likely that someone was affected more than peripherally.

Originally posted by Perplexity

Originally posted by The Old American
moot wouldn't give you the time of day.

Yeah you just lost any small shred of credibility you might have had on the subject lol..... So ignorant yet you play it off like you actually know what you're talking about.

edit on 11-7-2011 by Perplexity because: (no reason given)

Somehow I'll have to figure out how to go through life knowing you don't like me.

/TOA

I actually went to post this on Facebook and it denied me, stating it was considered SPAM!

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I didn't say I side with the Federal government on all matters. I said I am a law abiding citizen and if I have disagreements with what goes on, I can legally express those within the law.
The Bill of Rights are not rights given to us by the government but written to protect rights given by the Creator. Freedom means you allow others to be free though you disagree. Try to restrict or stop the freedoms of another & you stop yourself and everyone else. My country is about freedom. If you don't like how thing's are going, carefully research who it is you elect and again, protest if you must, do what ever, so long as it's legal.

I had more to say but it's useless really to try talking to someone like you. Hopefully you mature.

Federal Contractor Booz Allen Hamilton server and over 9000 emails/passwords compromised by hackers:

Booz Allen Hamilton hackred release of roughly 90,000 military email/pw

I wonder what this will lead to?

Seems Booz Allen Hamilton teamed up with Lunarline just a few days ago?

www.sacbee.com...

Lunarline is a security company ran by a Veteran-Owned company ran out of Virgina so well see if it is a honeypot setup I guess.

www.lunarline.com...

reply to post by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
Anybody who signed up at their site can expect a knock at their door, no scratch that... a battering ram at their door because they are too stupid to see a honeypot, the most obvious one in the world for that matter.

I hope they lure lots of stupid idiot would be terrorists into handcuffs, this is a worthy cause.

lol that's why i simply drag and dropped the link to my desktop, i'll boot up backtrackand lets see if the feds can find me then, never mind that i've got things set up so as to have 30 minutes warning even on windows.

to bad for you you'll be unemployed as a sheeple shepard soon

Reformatted the video and mirrored it and is working on FaceBook. Feel free to do the same. If fb blocks it just reformat and reup, or pm me on yt or ATS and i will re up.
www.youtube.com...

Anonymous are a bunch of hacking copycats, which are trying to emulate a pop-culture icon:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7387c0f6a54.jpg[/atsimg]
They are a joke.

reply to post by CaDreamer

shutting down the internet would cause financial havoc on such a great scale that it would completely collapse our and the worlds economy.

Exactly, there is so much e-commerce generated on the internet if would devastate millions of businesses who rely on it. The majority of businesses sale a good portion of their goods or services using the internet in one form or another. All the fear-mongering that government wants to shut-down or limit internet use is just plain paranoia.

reply to post by whoshotJR


Yes if Anon were smart. That's where they hit. Banks. Stealing account information etc. Is the way to go. People already dont trust banks. What happens when these banks have shotty security? People start to take out there money. Banks are the heart of our government. The really want to do some damage hack the federal reserve. Get their books, accounting information. Anything they can. But I don't think Anon can do it. Taking down sites that's one thing hacking important stuff like the Fed. I don't think your gonna see it.

Originally posted by depth om
reply to post by wcitizen

 

...
we need a plan, not this righteous chaos BS.

a plan would come in handy as it allows for a broader perspective
yet let us not undervalue small and little organized actions

allow me to trow in just one example

context:
a western european, still pretty rich country where people politically fight over non-issues
next year there will be local elections... city counsels, the whole cirque
a socio-political atmosphere that is turning more right wing

the "fact":
a local city town major understood the need for some profiling, those things tend to pay off at elections
so he admittedly invented some "troubles that might one day come to our city" and came up with a list of them, with the fines the young (who are targeted, of course) will have to pay if
1. they carry devices that make music in a public park
2. they use those small motorbikes (that go 20 mph or something like that) to come to that public park

This action was not called for by any real event happening and didn't seem to bother the others much (egocentrism has many faces.... I'm not a youngster anymore.... I don't live there...) so i decided to take action.
I'm over 35, pretty well networked both in bizznizz and politics (both fields see me as that unavoidable maverick they have to deal with for some reason i refuse to understand) and (as a result?) i turned grey already.
I'm not a biker but I'm affiliated with a bikers' club. no though guys - although their outfits try to make us believe otherwise. A nice group of people from the same few small rural towns with different socio-economic backgrounds. The leader of the gang is an officer of the vice squad of federal police.
I arranged a ride for the gang, to that troubled city, to the park. 120 fat guys on bikes, 2 cops in that park. Local press loved it.

Does this change the world?
'course not.
At best it might have changed the thinking of the people witnessing the scene, maybe even of those cops, for at least a few seconds. It might help them to realize what stupid game that # is playing on the youth (btw. they didn't reply to the provocation by the major, which i find impressively positive) and on those cops.
Next thing we're working on, with the assistance of local young people, is an event in that park to bring them together with local organizations and small commerce. An event that must underline who little the differences are, how much there is in common.... a real enemy, for example.





oh, my ideas on the ANON debate...

Are they playing in the hands of governments? Most probably they are.

Should we morally condemn them for doing so? For sure not, unless of course one beliefs that ANON is a govt. project. I find this position hard to hold as a lot is actually known about them (sorry, too tired and lazy to include links) and from that there are no signs, at least not to me.

Are they needed by govt. to increase control over the web (forget internet, it's about the web, where the ordinary people flock together... why are websites pulled down for IP infringement while that's almost become the reason for existence of usenet)? Nope, not at all.

It doesn't matter if it is technically feasible to "kill the internet". That is not going to happen as Return on Investment of huge economical fractions would be impacted in a negative way.

If you put things in a broader perspective, what's happening is the natural cause of things... the economical interest of the web has become too significant to not regulate and control it. Once the kindergarten of alternative, geeky folks like myself, exchanging data on listservers and bulletin boards and web fora, the web has been taken hostage by commerce and turned into a shopping mall and a place where we can flea each other virtually. That's a wonderful thing for govt. unfortunately the ease of use and speed and reach of the web can me used to mobilize as well. This is what govt. likes a lot less - unless it's happening in a country where a change of regime would benefit our bizznizz, of course.

For those who are saying that Anon is a government pet project.

You're wrong and the proof is in the pudding!

I've been telling people for the past year or so that Facebook was designed to assist the government's facial recognition technology. I WAS LAUGHED AT BY 96% OF THE PEOPLE I TOLD THIS TO. Their laughter didn't stop me. I still kept telling people to avoid Facebook like the plague. Then, about a month ago, it was revealed that Facebook does indeed assist with facial recognition technology. I haven't even received ONE apology from those who laughed. I don't care though. It just means that they will more than likely listen next time I tell them something.

The fact that Facebook doesn't allow Anonymous videos is proof that the government IS NOT in cohoots with Anonymous. If they were, then all Facebook users wouldn't have any problems uploading Anon's videos.

I think everyone is looking too deeply for proof that Anon is a rogue entity. Very simple clues exist everywhere. You just have to skim the surface.

To all the people who are saying that Anon is going to lead to the Internet getting shut down, so what? Are you going to shrivel up and die if you cannot get online? Are you afraid that you will be forced to taking to the streets as Egypt's citizens did?

I'm not.

If the Internet getting unplugged is the only thing that will cause the complacent to wake up and take action, so be it. Nothing else has worked so far. People getting kicked out of their homes hasn't caused revolt. People having to pay more for their food hasn't caused revolt. People having to pay more taxes hasn't caused revolt. But take away their Internet? All hell will break loose.

It's sad that people aren't angered by their food and shelter being stepped upon, but take away their technology and TPTB will be tarred and feathered. If this isn't proof that the majority have their priorities wrong, I don't know what is.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I understand the point you are trying to make, but isn't that just a nifty way of keeping us all docile and obedient? For fear of an internet killswitch? So, you're saying if the internet is shut off, we should blame Anonymous and not our oppressive, fascist government? I think this is a problem we often encounter in a lot of ways: being distracted by an act instead of focusing on the larger picture. It's this type of knee-jerk response that fuels the MSM and keeps everything the way it is now. 9/11 is a good example of this. People see other people as perfect, vulnerable targets, but won't tackle the institution as a whole. I guess if it were easy to take down Anonymous, the people of America would do it faster than the government could. We're famous for putting people on a pedestal and then knifing them to death.