The Ancient Maya and their origins

well thought out article... the idea the myans decended from earlier races and brought the calander with them makes sense s&f

reply to post by earthdude


Okay, this is what I thought about the two figures, "serpents" you say.

First of all they look humanoid and they are facing each other.
The one one the left looks more "serpent" like than the one on the right.
The one on the looks almost human.

Looking for a message in it I get.

"We were visited, (the guy on the left) and there was a go between (the part human part "serpent" guy on the right.")
"This knowledge came from those that visited, passed on to us humans, by the "hybrid" (so to speak).

That's what it says to me anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If the Mayan Calender doesn't just give you dates, but also "predicts" certain celestial events,,,wouldn't that make it a "machine"

Also,,,,,

If we "unearth" civilizations, doesn't some event "earth" them.

My point being TPTB, would have us assume there's no levity in the Mayan Calender,,,but I mean it's using Venus as a one of it's heavenly guides. Venus?
And there is absolutely something on the horizon,,,,IMHO

As for the 12,000 year old stuff; the fact is that the sea level was much lower before the Ice Age ended completely about 8000 years ago. The temperature became 20-30 degrees warmer within a decade or two during certain times, and so of course coastal areas flooded permanently.

Great post.

I find the Babylonians interesting for their mathematics / astronomy. It's as though they had to invent the mathematics to cope with the astronomy. (this is how physics and maths ahas worked in European history e.g. Calculus coming into being by Napier at the time when it was needed - Newton's laws of physics.

When I look at the Babylonians/Egyptians - these people had to be closer to nature as their crop circles depended on it. I am sure that there was a practical need for these observations - e.g. to know where the stars line up for planting their crop - so that they plant at the precise time that the Nile is likely to flood and get the best crop. Too early and the crop fails, too late and they miss the floods.

The other thing to bear in mind is that for these ancient people, mathematics, science and the world around them was in harmony - in a way we really can't understand. Each number not only had a mathematical significance e.g it is a prime number but also an almost spiritual significance. We see some of this in the bible with numbers like 40 days and 40 nights cropping up time and again.

So what was the reason behind the the Mayans obsession with the stars and the calendars?

.

Originally posted by wycky
I am currently reading finger prints of the gods by Graham Handcock.
It has a lot of good info about the Myans and Olmecs. Whats more intresting though is how many cultures ( think 84 from memory) have almost identical stories of a great flood wiping out most of mankind at the end of a cycle, and then talk of a new begning.

Fingerprints of the Gods is one of my favorite books written by Graham Hancock, you should also read The Sign and the Seal, Supernatural and Underworld.

Check out Grahams website and click on Videos, he has some amazing information and videos there..

www.grahamhancock.com...

Well you were doing fine until.....

Originally posted by sir_slide
The famous Maya text the Popol Vuh states that the world has been destroyed three times by three great cataclysms and that the current world is the fourth world, thus their calendar begins at the end of the last world (13.0.0.0.0 4 Ajaw 8 Kumk’u) in 3114 BC and ends at the completion of the next cycle which is on December 21st 2012.

Actually, it doesn't seem to give the time of those "cataclysms" -- and I'm not sure they're cataclysms. In one of them, humans (who were created out of wood) were chased out of their homes by their own pots and utensils and dogs and pigs and drowned and so forth.
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

If we were to take the Bishops version of events as the truth we would understand that perhaps the Olmec and The Maya civilizations had their origins a great deal earlier than when most archeologists accept.

Sadly, there's no actual proof of this. Cultures are complex things and cities and civilizations don't just start when a bunch of wandering tribespeople run into each other and decide to start a new civilization. Each civilization has unique features (the way it buries its dead, the kinds of foods it prefers, which animals it domesticates, which symbols are sacred and so forth.) The things that remain don't match up with the Bishop's speculation -- but that's no surprise. He didn't have any artifacts and dig site information.

Perhaps this is why their calendar was so detailed, precise and would make up for how it could possibly span such long periods of time. Is it possible then that the origins of the Mayan calendar date back to an age even before the Olmecs?

If we go on that reasoning, the calendar I have on my wall right now could go back to the mid Jurassic. It's very precise.

You can't take an object and speculate backwards if there's no evidence for it. Many civilizations put a "start date" on their calendar that relates to some mythical event (the founding of Rome is a good example. Early Romans didn't keep a calendar and by the time they were calling themselves Romans and had a state and an empire, they backdated their calendars to what they felt was the time it was founded.

One of the Mayan cycles of time mapped out a cycle that took 26,000 to complete and “is the calendar to indicate when the Earth Mother is going to make the big changes.

I don't think you will find this idea anywhere in Mayan mythology (which you said you were using) or in the Popol Vuh. It doesn't hold up in the geologic record, either.

So the Sun moves “into the ecliptic crosshairs only once every 26, 000 years ” yet the “winter solstice sunrise of 2012 takes place only once in the whole history of the universe” and the Maya were aware of this.

Actually, the "ecliptic crosshairs" huge. It's somewhat similar to you standing in New Jersey and "being in alignment with New York City." You would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between the rising sun on this year's winter solstice and the 2012 rising sun and the 2013 rising sun. Check out the "Starry night" program or other astronomical software and see for yourself -- the Milky Way rift is actually fairly sizable when viewed from Earth.

The region of the Milky Way that the solstice sun will unite with contains not only the nuclear bulge of the Galactic Centre (which, by the way is visible to the human eye) but also a ‘dark rift’ feature caused by interstellar dust.

Your source there is misleading. The galactic center is huge (like New York City) and the Earth is very small (like you.. or maybe your cat in comparison to NYC.) Standing so that you're at the same altitude above sea level as New York City isn't going to unite you with NYC. The Earth bobs and weaves through this position on a regular cycle. It's occurred before and will again.

If we look carefully at the history of the planet we can see that “13, 000 years ago (or halfway through the Mayan 26, 000 year cycle) the polar ice caps began to melt and the ocean levels rose dramatically during the next 2000 years which drastically shrank the coasts of most countries and covered many land masses with water ”

Your source is misleading. There were rises in the sea level that took place over thousands of years till we get to today's sea level. But the rise was between two and five inches per year (and there's records of this in the geology.)

If such a global cataclysm had indeed taken place it would make sense that they would have had to have started their civilization again from the very bottom, and rebuild, beginning in “caves until the new ground would have been suitable for agriculture ”.

You seem to assume that everyone lived on the coast (rather than the interior) and that they didn't have the sense to walk away from their living places when the tides started to chew up the land. There's plenty of evidence that homo sapiens was living in the interior of continents up to a million years ago and that human ancestors were nowhere near the ocean five million years ago.

Some knowledge would have to have been kept sacred and passed on and it seems that the Mayan calendar is this knowledge. “The Chilam Balam of Yucatan asserts that the motherland of the Maya was swallowed up by the sea amid earthquakes and fiery eruptions in a very distant epoch ”. This along with the Mayan legends of the destruction of previous worlds leads one to believe that the Maya may have had their beginnings in the very distant past and that indeed they did inherit their calendar from this distant epoch.

I haven't read the books so I can't say, but I feel I should point out that these books were written in the 1700's (click link for reference) They include Arabic recipes (not indigenous ones) and include feast days for Saints, indicating Christian mythology has intermixed thoroughly with the culture.

I wouldn't rely on them as "pure sources."

If this is true, then it is possible to assume that the Maya were direct descendants of people from these very near by civilizations.

While the premise isn't true, the conclusion is. Mayans didn't drop in from outer space -- they formed around a strong leader from another culture living in the region who rose to found a kingdom and had a line of successors who kept the kingdom intact. Just as the English are direct descendants of the Britons that Julius Caesar encountered and those Britons are descendants of earlier people who crossed the English channel during the height of the Ice Age and before.

We know now through modern astronomy that in December 2012 we are “moving out of the age of Pisces and into the age of Aquarius”

Actually, that's astrology and not astronomy and astrologers (I used to be a professional astrologer) have been arguing about just WHEN the Age of Aquarius arrived since the 1970's.

And in spite of my seeming snarkiness, you've done a nice job in presenting the topic!

The age of aquarius starts in 2150 AD.

each age last 2150 years. and the age of Pisces(the age of jesus) began 0-1AD and ends 2150.

A lot of your sources are just sensational book and authors. and also, mapping time is not that big of a deal.

I could make a map of time that front and back is twice as long as the mayan calendar... Its all symbology.

This is why I keep coming back to this site. It has waaaaaaay too many negative people and ones that are so quick to tell you you are wrong when in fact everything we "know" is basically a theory.

Good job and so nice to see a REAL THREAD with interesting information!

I have researched the Mayans for years now and it seems as if you are spot on. We will never ever know the complete truth, so with that said I also believe they were lead by the stars and they were not cooped up inside as our civilization is today. Last night I looked up at the stars and I can honestly say I have only looked up and observed maybe a handful of times this year!

Generally speaking we have no clue and are learning everyday in regards to our Solar System, Earth, and hardly the Ocean. We know probably 5 % of what consists in our Oceans. Its proven that our Oceans are warming at an alarming rate. Methane is on the rise....maybe the end cycle will bring Earth Changes that will humble our Society and bring a more peaceful setting to the table. It is needed. IMO of course!

Thank you Sir Slide for your excellent disclosure.

The Cuban discovery was something I never had a chance to follow up on, the revelation of the structures there is amazing. The image that you posted, is that a real life picture taken of the structures? I mean, at 2200 ft. the waters are so... bright! Most would expect a darker water at that depth, however the waters of the Carribean do have magnificent clarity. If indeed that is a real life image it is one of the most ominously thought provoking images I ever seen, one I've saved to my computer and will probably enhance for my screen.

With the knowledge we as a species are gleening from these South American peoples, it must be in everyone's mind how this culture rivals Shume with it's antiquity... There has to be a connection somewhere.

Sitchin (I think it was him) mentioned that the God's of the Annanuki travelled to South America as well. I know... Sitchin is controversial, but I truly wonder how true that could be?

The future may tell, if we as a species can maintain out dilligence beyond the comming road ahead of us.

The Mayans were intelligent but scared little girls as well who had an evil streak. They were like bullied nerds that finally got their hands on a gun. Smart, but dangerous when they get scared and you give them a weapon. I really don't think they were that special, if they were someone would have "proven" something...anything about their celestial partnership with the stars at all. They were just a misunderstood tribe who ceased to be one day probably because they ran out of people...that tends to happen WHEN YOU SACRIFICE THEM ALL! Furthermore, the big mysetry about them stopping the claendar on a specific date?? They had to stop somewhere or go on for infinity. Maybe the calendar stopped on the day when the calendar maker was the last person to be sacrificed. Hard to continue after that particular day. I just don't think they were anything more special than any other brutal tribe. The only reason they are so mysterious and esoteric.....is because WE make them that way. We as humans want so bad to believe someone can really see our future and that we may be able to even change it if we all collectively look up at the sky at the same time and focus our energies blah, blah, blah. We think just because we TALK about things like UFO's and Aliens, and believe liars that come on here and other places like TV shows and tell people that they are given messages, that we are going to somehow enlighten ourselves into a new 4th dimensional plane thus turning into pure energy. Brillant people, I must say.
This is about as stupid as evolution and the belief that on one particular day a fish decided to start growing legs and arms to walk up on the shore and start living as a monkey. I wonder on which particular day the cosmic decision was made to redirect cellular growth (not because of a particular need, because sea animals didn't need oxygen or anything from land), to "decide" simply by "desire", that the first fish should walk on land, shed the gills and breath oxygen and abandoning ALL previous needs for oceanic life? There had to be a single day (if evolution is correct) to make that move. Such a great achievement and no medals or commendation letters to prove it. Mayans, Psychics and these pure energy people are all jokes...you too Comet Elenin peeps, you're funny too. .....I know, I know,.....go ahead and delete MOD, you have deleted every message I have made for weeks now. Is this happening to anyone else? I have had so many messages deleted in the past month I can't count them..on or off topic, doesn't matter. Give someone some power and look what they do with it. Censor people when they don't like the topic or the truth of some topics! Go ahead and delete, I don't care.

reply to post by sir_slide


This is something I thought about the other day that did not ever hit me before. I saw a picture the other day where someone had camped out in the desert and had taken a photo of the night sky. With no artificial lights around for miles and miles, the photo was amazing. The stars you were able to see from this one photo was astounding and very beautiful. I know that when I go with my own family to my mother's house in the north Ga mountains, the difference you see in the night sky from her house and at my house always amazes me. So, after reading a few articles like this I realized. Civilization back then...Egypt, India, Asia, North America, South America...etc etc. Had no lights. I mean, the photo from the desert....had no artifical light hinderance, but I bet it was still hindered somewhat from the lights hundreds of miles away (maybe not, I'm not sure how that would work) At my mother's there are obviously some lights around, even with it being the mountains, but you can clearly see the difference between there and the city. But these people. this particular time in history..had none..at all, anywhere. All they had for light, was the Sun, at night, the moon and stars. Think about it. We wonder, or at least I do...I've wondered..why the obsession? why does it seem that every single culture from that time in history based their life and life works around the night sky? and I realized...when I'm at my mother's house, I can't help but look up...the view is amazing, to see that many stars and so clearly is amazing to me. So I realized....their time in history...the view would have been awe inspiring, it would have been all they must have looked at...as we probably would today were we to see such a site. And the sky would have been clear of light sources, pollution, haze, chemicals, it would have been a pure site with nothing to obstruct it, how amazing that must of been, and no wonder they were able to detail things so very clearly.

I'm religious. I'm a Christian. Non denominational. I read my bible. I know the part in the OT in Genesis, where the author (believed to be Moses) tells us that God set the lights in the sky to be for times, seasons and signs. This led my thinking to two things. The first being, long ago, comets, eclipses, solar flares, etc etc would have been viewed as signs, is it maybe that they still are? but we are so removed from our natural abilities due to technology and disbelief, that we no longer know how to read those signs? My next thought was more deep and I'll admit a bit hard to even admit. As a Christian, I believe in God, Jesus, the bible, this also means I believe in Satan. My belief tells me that Satan's role is to do all he can to remove us from God and to follow him. Is technology maybe not as great as we think it is? as a result we have electricity, which is seemingly a fantastic thing, except, if the objects in the night sky are for signs, we can't see them because the discovery of electricity (lights) has stopped us. Granted..we now have telescopes, camera's, NASA. but just imagine that sky 4000+years ago, with no light hinderance, no haze of pollution.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by sir_slide

 

Interesting perspective. S & F

This leads one to speculate that their calendar was originally of Olmec origin, as most archeologists agree that it was the Olmecs who had the first civilization in Central America around 1500 BC.

As many of our readers know I've written a few threads on the topic of Sunken Ice Age civilization/culture which we may never fully understand. There are possible Dry "Ice age" coastal location for an ancient Caribbean sunken civilization. [The light colored area in the following image] There seems to be some circumstantial evidence that supports this theory.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f008a32e55b8.jpg[/atsimg]

There has been some speculation that the "Mississippian Mound Builder" were related somehow to either the Mayan or were an offshoot of the Olmec themselves. The history of the Caribbean would be closely tied to any possible sunken civilization. They are certainly old enough to have been survivors of the period

Ortoiroid people The Ortoiroid people were the first human settlers of the Caribbean...

The earliest radiocarbon date for the Ortoiroid is 5230 BC from Trinidad; the latest date is 190 AD from Puerto Rico.

In North America if we traveled up the Mississippi we find Mound builders who possibly had roots in either the Mayan or even the older Olmec civilizations.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/490c17412f57.jpg[/atsimg]


Cahokia

Cahokia kəhoʊkiːə is the site of an ancient Native American city (650-1400 CE) near Collinsville, Illinois in the American Bottom floodplain, across the Mississippi River from St. Louis, Missouri. The 2,200-acre (8.9 km2) site includes at least 109 man-made earthen mounds. Cahokia Mounds is the largest archaeological site related to the Mississippian culture, which developed advanced societies in eastern North America centuries before the arrival of Europeans.[1]

Cahokia was settled around 650 CE during the Late Woodland period. Mound building did not begin until about 1050 CE, at the beginning of the Mississippian cultural period. The inhabitants left no written records beyond symbols on pottery, shell, copper, wood, and stone.[4]. The city's original name is unknown.

A couple of pictures to ponder.

Cahokia North America
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c14e1a29596c.jpg[/atsimg]
Olmec Central America
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8181d9c2e4ce.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/72a015b8886b.jpg[/atsimg]

Does anybody remember the following image? It caused quite a stir when it was first released. It shows the destruction of a civilization from a tremendous volcanic eruption followed by flooding. Could this depiction and the Olmec ruins be proof of that titanic destruction?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/01321ecc11ce.jpg[/atsimg]

Most if not all the major Olmec stone carvings that survive to this day show massive amounts of damage in some form. It has been speculated that the damage was caused by rivals or later cultures defacing their work. My question is this. Wouldn't it have been easier to have chiseled off the inscriptions and carvings than trying to break them apart?

I theorize the reason why these stone carvings were heavily damaged and strewn throughout the jungle is possibly due to some form a titanic destructive force leaving only these few sculptures. Maybe a huge Volcanic eruption followed by a huge tsunami could have ripped apart ancient temples and flung them all over the surrounding area. Pure speculation on my part.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d597cef7aa7f.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16d86ead36e4.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9c4181601cea.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1648882e514d.jpg[/atsimg]

True to form Slayer69 you bring us scholarly insight to the table of thought, I thank you.

Indeed - your insight on the qualities of Olmec works having been subjected to geologic catastrophies appears as sound logic, which I would back as factual. Given the STRONG geologic forces at work in South America along the Andes Mountains it just makes plain sense.

I for one believe that we shall discover ELE level calderas not realised before... Our data is still incomplete at this time.

For instance, Chixulub is on record as being one of THE more astounding ELE events in the region, one that cracked the Earth's surface clear to the Pacific North West, and I'd say one that created enough weaknesses in the Earth's crust in the region to have several future volcanic ELE events.

It's just sound logic IMHO.

reply to post by sir_slide

Great topic with precise descriptions of fact and totally unbiased IMO. You have a star and a flag from me. Keep up the good work, these kind of thread are worthy pieces of informations.


Thruthseek3r

It is also nice to add that the mayans sacrificed humans including children for the cause of their religion and whatever false beliefs they used to believe in. A mass grave of kids was excavated in 05.

(p. 91) In such cases, slaves were usually purchased and after a variety of rituals were anointed with blue dye and either shot with arrows through the heart or held on an altar while the priest swiftly removed the heart using a ceremonial knife. In either case the heart was presented to the temple idol, which was also anointed with blood. (pp. 48–49) According to Bancroft, one tribe sacrificed illegitimate boys twice a year, again by removing the heart, but collecting the blood in a bowl and scattering it to the four cardinal compass points within the temple.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks for the contribution Slayer!

Your theory about the Olmec artifacts seems to have a lot of validity. I was also very interested in the first image, With what they have been finding in this area it seems that at one point it was a whole body of land. I am almost convinced that the Maya were founded by a civilization that inhabited this area many thousands of years ago.

Got a lot of reading to do, great response!

I just watched this video:

The Actual Astronomy of 2012

www.youtube.com...

The perfect galactic alignment between the Earth, Sun and the center of the Milky Way happened back in 1998 but 2012 is a better date for them to witness the event in Mexico. ( ~ 8:00 min )

Is this true?

Oh, I almost forget. Great topic s+f!

reply to post by Byrd


Nice response Byrd, some good points to add. The 26,000 year cycle of time I was referring to is based on the calender not the mythology, the calender represents that period of time.

As far as the issue of the start date and your assertion that you cannot speculate backwards I will have to disagree. The Calender is incredibly specific and it seems unlikely that a culture with such accuracy in other areas would be flippant about such an important part of their culture, the calender.

As far as the rise in sea level goes, the majority of the melting of the ice caps ended about 10,000 years ago, so this would have been a time of significant rises in sea levels. The sea level we have today would not be much more than when the last ice age ended, of course it would be bigger, but the dramatic rise in sea levels ended 10,000 years ago.

Not sure how to respond to some of other points. Cheers for the response!

Thanks to everyone for all the great responses! Really appreciate all the thread input, keep it coming!!