The Ancient Maya and their origins

Thanks to everyone for all the great responses! Really appreciate all the thread input, keep it coming!!

I read somewhere that one of the wheels within the calendar was a measurement of human consciousness.

I always found that interesting, but haven't found any other research about it.

Any one got any leads?

Great stuff, I hope you don't mind my adding that some portions of the Book of Mormon speak of cities being sunken in the sea, all very interesting, thanks for the information you've put together here.

After reading the replies into this topic thus far, I started to think about a few things that may be related to this topic.

Whilst the Maya were responsible for creating a very accurate method for calculating time and dates. Other ancient civilisations have left subjective proof that they knew of other planets within our solar system I mean, we currently have things like Accelerometers and GPS and Satellites, tho we still don't have all the elements of our solar system mapped out. These ancient civilisations wouldn't of had our Hubble telescope or even ground based telescopes, but somehow were able to map out the difference between planets and normal stars in the night sky, which are things you just can't differentiate between without the use of a telescope or prior knowledge that they aren't just brighter stars etc..?

It's interesting how we haven't been able to locate any "digital" technology or technology that used electricity even though they must have had access to some form of higher level technology than just rock-spears and cave-man like tools. All we ever seem to dig up in our findings are those primitive types of tools.

To me, it's not just about their calendar or their ancient ruins and sculptures. Those things let us know they exist, but here is where my speculations on this topic begin. They are speculations that I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on to determine if they may or may not have room for holding water. (so to speak)

If we were to be hit with a strong CME that took out all of our current technologies, we would be forced to rely on more primitive technology and no doubt all hell would break loose on earth with crime and war etc.. not to mention that you may or may not invoke several nuclear meltdowns or malfunctions of nuclear weapons/storage facilities. The end result being that a lot of our technology would disappear.

Now lets say that whilst this was happening, seismic activity increased causing things such as super volcanic eruptions and perhaps tsunami waves...we would be an advanced civilisation that is now unable to communicate with each other due to all electrical communications being taken down.. so there would be no way to warn each other of these natural disasters. I don't want this to sound like I'm turning this into some doomsday thread because I'm really not aiming to do that. These are some possible scenarios that could happen because there is evidence that Earth has previously experienced super volcanoes and large seismic activity both accompanied, no doubt, by devastating tsunami's. We know that should earth take a direct hit from an intense CME, all electrical devices would fry (similar to the 1859 CME :

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed in some cases even shocking telegraph operators.[5] Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire.[6] Some telegraph systems appeared to continue to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies. en.wikipedia.org...

So with all of this in mind, what would become of the human race, would we be set back again to primitive times with most traces of our technological past being destroyed? Could it be that thousands of years later, we would be viewed the same way we are viewing ancient civilisations like the Maya?


That is 1 line of thought that this thread has taken my mind on and the other is a speculation that, perhaps the Mayans and other ancient civilisations had a different take on technology? Perhaps the reason that we can't find any traces of "digital" or "electrical" technology like we have today is because they discovered alternative methods of technology that simply operated in unison with the natural energies that Earth emits.

If this were the case, it makes sense to me that all our findings appear so primitive. Fossilised technology that didn't require the same sources of conventional power we use in the present may not have left behind any noticeable clues regarding how they did work.

As I am currently looking into things regarding principles of magnetic fields and magnetism, I am quickly discovering that modern day science is still in the dark about the full extent of magnetic properties, effects and uses etc... Information about the Earth's Geomagnetic Field At the bottom of the linked page there are 2 statements that sum my thoughts on science's still growing comprehension of magnetism and EMF's, "[color=Limegreen]Because the magnetic field has never been observed to reverse by humans with instrumentation, and the mechanism of field generation is not well understood, it is difficult to say what the characteristics of the magnetic field might be leading up to such a reversal." It seems evident from this as just one of many possible sources, that science still has a lot to learn about magnetism and the natural mechanics of Earth.

The concepts of Overunity are becoming more and more popular as mankind is starting to run into issues with our current fossil fuels. Perhaps with all this new focus, we too will be able to discover our own methods of harnessing the natural forces that exist. There is a lot of unknowns when it comes to things like the possibility of potential energy in permanent magnets.

So to end a rather long post, I am left wondering if perhaps there are some deep buried clues of our ancient history within this old civilisations that could still give us clues as to how they were able to make such fine detailed sculptures and construct such uniform structures ... I wonder why there are no traces of such technology except the remains of objects that are the fruits of their existence.

I hope my amateur take on ancient civilisations can be at the very least, thought provoking for further comments on such a great thread courtesy of sir_slide

reply to post by JaxCavalera


I think you're definitely on to something about their technology, really good response. I think a lot of ancient cultures may have had technology that we can't really grasp. There seems to be a very spiritual element at play here, and that could be the missing link.

reply to post by sir_slide
Interesting, perhaps there is a level of spiritualness to it. I made a few observations in another topic recently that may be of some use here.

Essentially, they are thoughts that relate to the most effective state of mind that one can achieve to ensure maximum productivity. In this conceptual state, a person would be able to make quantum leaps in their comprehension and thus perhaps quantum leaps in technological advancements if they decided to channel their thoughts and actions in such a direction.

Here is a link to some of that stuff in case you or others are interested in taking a peek at some of these concepts : (You'll have to excuse me for the poor presentation of the posts as I'm still getting use to the HTML code that helps with readability)

post by JaxCavalera


I'm not sure if that is the direction you were thinking regarding a spiritual element at play as the missing link. A more advanced and developed level of thinking far beyond even what I conceptualise may have been at work back in these ancient civilisations.

We know that beliefs and religious ceremonies were very important to them as there have been depictions of human sacrifices (as previously stated in other posts in this thread) where priests would cut open the chest of the victim and rip out their heart whilst they were tied up from each arm so as to not move/escape during the ceremony.

I wonder what they deemed to be the purpose of such a ceremony and if it were their way of showing gratitude to their gods for their enlightened state of mind. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine how such advanced civilisations were so (seemingly) easily invaded...Maybe all their advanced technology wasn't war orientated..after all they are not typically referred to as warriors but as mathematicians.

Double' postage

Originally posted by JaxCavalera
reply to post by sir_slide

 

Interesting, perhaps there is a level of spiritualness to it. I made a few observations in another topic recently that may be of some use here.

Essentially, they are thoughts that relate to the most effective state of mind that one can achieve to ensure maximum productivity. In this conceptual state, a person would be able to make quantum leaps in their comprehension and thus perhaps quantum leaps in technological advancements if they decided to channel their thoughts and actions in such a direction.

Here is a link to some of that stuff in case you or others are interested in taking a peek at some of these concepts : (You'll have to excuse me for the poor presentation of the posts as I'm still getting use to the HTML code that helps with readability)

post by JaxCavalera

 

I'm not sure if that is the direction you were thinking regarding a spiritual element at play as the missing link. A more advanced and developed level of thinking far beyond even what I conceptualise may have been at work back in these ancient civilisations.

We know that beliefs and religious ceremonies were very important to them as there have been depictions of human sacrifices (as previously stated in other posts in this thread) where priests would cut open the chest of the victim and rip out their heart whilst they were tied up from each arm so as to not move/escape during the ceremony.

I wonder what they deemed to be the purpose of such a ceremony and if it were their way of showing gratitude to their gods for their enlightened state of mind. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine how such advanced civilisations were so (seemingly) easily invaded...Maybe all their advanced technology wasn't war orientated..after all they are not typically referred to as warriors but as mathematicians.

edit on 2-7-2011 by JaxCavalera because: because: the 2nd link i originally provided wasn't as contextually relevant as I remembered it were .. my bad

I couldn't see the link. I just wanted to address the issue of human sacrifice, people may be confusing the Maya with the Aztecs who sacrificed people regularly. While it did happen it was far less common than people suggest. You see the Aztecs misinterpreted the teachings of the Maya and took many things far too literally.

Animal sacrifice and bloodletting were a common feature in many Maya festivals and regular rituals. Human sacrifice was far less common, being tied to events such as ill fortune, warfare and the consecration of new leaders or temples. The practice was also far less common than in the neighboring Aztec societies.

en.wikipedia.org...

What I have learned through studying a lot of ancient cultures, is that there was this spiritual element that seems to me to relate somewhat to technology. From here it gets pretty intense......

Please keep up the brilliant responses man, great contributions!

reply to post by sir_slide


Regarding the human sacrifice, I do agree based upon my research into this. That being said, they did still perform the particular human sacrifice that I used as an example. It seems a rather barbaric way to execute someone compared to the alternatives. Probably why they call it a sacrifice though.

As for the link between the spiritual element and my previous post, I would draw the link at an ability to think in a more advanced way that enables scientific and technological quantum leaps. The linked conceptualised form of such thinking is just my primitive "stab in the dark" at an approach to science/spiritual balance that falls more in line with the rest of our natural, organic world.

I'd be interested to hear your own thoughts and conclusions on where you have discovered it becomes more intense as we delve deeper into this aspect of the topic.

A brief side-note I re-read the supplied wikipedia link on Sacrifice in Maya culture and it did direct my thoughts to more of that cult-like behaviour that often comes from closed cultures...Generally speaking these cultures aimed to enforce close mindedness as a means of maintaining control. I'm not sure if this trait was also a part of Maya culture though...it may be a more modern corruption that's developed over time as some have seen the potential for exploitation of members involved within closed culture societies.

reply to post by JaxCavalera


Well that is where it gets very interesting. I refrained from speculating about the civilization that founded the maya because that is well, speculation, I was only really interested in establishing the fact that they may have in fact been founded by a previously existing civilization. One thing that comes to mind when discussing the issue of spirituality in relation to the Maya is the crystal skulls, the mitchell hedges skull being the most significant. It is essentially a computer, an amazing artifact also, but it is made of electronic crystal. It is one of the most flawless artifacts to emerge from this region, and its origins remain mysterious. You see academics will tell you that the crystal skulls are modern fakes. They tested 6 of them at the British museum in order to determine whether they were ancient (Aztec, Mayan, Incan) or whether they were modern fakes that displayed modern craftsmanship. Well they concluded that 4 of the tested skulls had marks on them that indicated they were carved with a wheel, therefore they were fakes. What was interesting about hte study is that the team REFUSED to comment on the last two skulls. NO COMMENT. If they were ancient they would have confirmed, if they were fakes, they would have confirmed. Very suspicious in my opinion.

So if we accept that the mitchell hedges skull is indeed a Mayan artifact then we would have to assume that they had technological knowledge. The more you look into that skull that weirder it becomes. Psychics and various mystics have done work with this skull. The first book in the bibliography is great if you're interesed. So anyway these psychics, one works with homicide in Canada and has helped solve hundreds of cases, well she "channels'" the skull, and communicates the messages contained inside. Now this may sound pretty crazy, but this is what I'm getting at. She reveals some very interesting things while channeling this skull. You see what I'm getting at with the spiritual aspect of the technology....?

reply to post by sir_slide


A lot of this information and more has been posted before.

For example.

Pyramids Can Be Found All Over The World

Which includes a lot of information, photos and videos of pyramids, and ruins found around the world including the ruins off the coast of Cuba.

That thread is a repeat from another thread I posted in these forums back in 2004 here.

What civilization built the first pyramid?

Since then many other members including I have been posting and trying to find more inforation regarding these ancient civilizations, their knowledge, and their prophecies.

Here is part of a post where i responded to in a 2012 end of the world prediction thread.

...
The Hopi view the time around this date, it is not exactly on this date, that it would be THE END OF A CYCLE...and so do the Maya, but the Maya have the time as Dec 21st 2012, on the winter solstice. But again, to the Maya, just as to the Hopi, this is not the end of the world. It is just the end of a cycle. One that will end in conflict, and a cycle which is a time of purification, when unfortunately there will be much suffering.

BTW, there are many different Maya elders, and some have more knowledge than others.

The Hopi, and the Maya, are one at the same. According to the Hopi, they were instructed long ago to make 4 migrations, and the Hopi believe that the Maya could be a clan that decided not to complete their migration as they arrived to the tropics, where it is warm year around.

Both have many similarities. Although the prophecy of the Hopi is a bit different in that according to them the blue star Kachina, would appear at the end of this cycle, and it would shed it's skin, and this is symbolized in a Hopi ceremony, and the appearance of this star shows to the Hopi that the 7 years of tribulation, and purification have began.

The Hopi say that comet Holmes was the blue star Kachina, as it exploded in 2007, and much of it's particles expanded to be bigger than the Sun, and it became a million times brighter being visible to the naked eye.

Comet Holmes survived this explosion, and it is set to return it's voyage back around the Sun around 2014.

Anyway, to the Hopi this tribulation and purification is a time of suffering also, a time of conflict.

Both the Maya, and Hopi see this time frame as a time of much conflict, when a third great war could also start.

But at the end, it is NOT the end of the world... It is just the end of a cycle.

www.witzmountain.com...

BTW, most modern Maya didn't learn their language from "archeologists"....

There isn't just ONE Maya language. There is Mam, Q’anjob’al, Jacalteco (Jacaltec) or any one of 28 other ancient Maya languages which are spoken by many different clans, and they weren't taught by "archeologists." Only two ancient Maya languages are extinct.

Originally there were 31 Maya languages, and two are extinct. So there are 29 Maya languages which are still spoken by different clans.

Oh, and try telling the Maya/Hopi that archeologists know more about their culture than them...

There is MUCH that the different clans of Maya/Hopi know about that NO ARCHEOLOGIST, or any white man knows. They don't tell everything to the white man, or any other race.

Did you know that most Maya clans still live without electricity, and without indoor plumbing, etc?

To them the more white they become, the less Maya/Hopi they become, and in order to survive they have to live as close to nature as possible, without many possessions as it was instructed to them long ago.

Another thing to add, according to the Hopi another star will make it's appearance after the blue star Kachina. This star will be red, but they don't want to mention much about this red star.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by sir_slide

 

A lot of this information and more has been posted before.

For example.

Pyramids Can Be Found All Over The World

Which includes a lot of information, photos and videos of pyramids, and ruins found around the world including the ruins off the coast of Cuba.

That thread is a repeat from another thread I posted in these forums back in 2004 here.

What civilization built the first pyramid?

Since then many other members including I have been posting and trying to find more inforation regarding these ancient civilizations, their knowledge, and their prophecies.

Here is part of a post where i responded to in a 2012 end of the world prediction thread.

...
The Hopi view the time around this date, it is not exactly on this date, that it would be THE END OF A CYCLE...and so do the Maya, but the Maya have the time as Dec 21st 2012, on the winter solstice. But again, to the Maya, just as to the Hopi, this is not the end of the world. It is just the end of a cycle. One that will end in conflict, and a cycle which is a time of purification, when unfortunately there will be much suffering.

BTW, there are many different Maya elders, and some have more knowledge than others.

The Hopi, and the Maya, are one at the same. According to the Hopi, they were instructed long ago to make 4 migrations, and the Hopi believe that the Maya could be a clan that decided not to complete their migration as they arrived to the tropics, where it is warm year around.

Both have many similarities. Although the prophecy of the Hopi is a bit different in that according to them the blue star Kachina, would appear at the end of this cycle, and it would shed it's skin, and this is symbolized in a Hopi ceremony, and the appearance of this star shows to the Hopi that the 7 years of tribulation, and purification have began.

The Hopi say that comet Holmes was the blue star Kachina, as it exploded in 2007, and much of it's particles expanded to be bigger than the Sun, and it became a million times brighter being visible to the naked eye.

Comet Holmes survived this explosion, and it is set to return it's voyage back around the Sun around 2014.

Anyway, to the Hopi this tribulation and purification is a time of suffering also, a time of conflict.

Both the Maya, and Hopi see this time frame as a time of much conflict, when a third great war could also start.

But at the end, it is NOT the end of the world... It is just the end of a cycle.

www.witzmountain.com...

BTW, most modern Maya didn't learn their language from "archeologists"....

There isn't just ONE Maya language. There is Mam, Q’anjob’al, Jacalteco (Jacaltec) or any one of 28 other ancient Maya languages which are spoken by many different clans, and they weren't taught by "archeologists." Only two ancient Maya languages are extinct.

Originally there were 31 Maya languages, and two are extinct. So there are 29 Maya languages which are still spoken by different clans.

Oh, and try telling the Maya/Hopi that archeologists know more about their culture than them...

There is MUCH that the different clans of Maya/Hopi know about that NO ARCHEOLOGIST, or any white man knows. They don't tell everything to the white man, or any other race.

Did you know that most Maya clans still live without electricity, and without indoor plumbing, etc?

To them the more white they become, the less Maya/Hopi they become, and in order to survive they have to live as close to nature as possible, without many possessions as it was instructed to them long ago.

Another thing to add, according to the Hopi another star will make it's appearance after the blue star Kachina. This star will be red, but they don't want to mention much about this red star.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

.

edit on 2-7-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

its not really about pyramids though is it? its about the Maya and their origins, cheers for the response though, good links...

another double post, dammit!

At least this Mayan thread has avoided the dreaded 404 mallet, so far !

In the last one I stated my belief that the Mayans simply found and moved into the abandoned Pyramids, and also my belief that the Egyptians did the same. The Olmecs may even have done this too, although it seems less likely. This whole recurring 13,000 year thing must go back even further, by logical deduction, it would have had to have been observed at least twice, for them to record a countdown record, as a future warning. So the original observers must have recorded the original destruction at least 26,000 years ago, possibly even 39,000. I am not saying that the Pyramids are that old though, it still confuses me as to what stage of the cycle, they could have been built. If a worldwide catastrophy happened, the survivors would be too busy trying to survive and repopulate for many hundreds of years after, if the Pyramids were constructed as monuments to the catastrophies, or as warnings, they may have been built at one of the halfway points between events.

It is tempting to imagine that all of the Pyramids in the world could have been built at the same time, then perhaps at some stage a major catastrophy hit the Earth causing the land masses to seperate and some of them became underwater. If he Earth was ever originally ONE joined land mass, with everyone working in harmony and with the technology to achieve the building projects, it could just be where the legend of Atlantis came from.

Off Topic : seems to have some glitch that causes double posts a bit on the forum.. not sure what causes it :s

The mention of the crystal skulls has helped me to adjust my own line of thought on this and re-direct it down a new avenue that perhaps you are also considering.

Regarding the skulls as computers that interact with the spiritual. Over the last few years I have developed an increasingly strong belief that our brain is capable of a lot more than we can consciously use it for.

I reference to things such as The Drug : '___' and link this to many historic claims of "revelations" through dreams. I'm certain that this isn't the only way we are able to forcibly open up access to the unconscious workings of our brain.

It may well be that the skulls are attributed to healing by evoking a Psychosomatic reaction in those that feel a connection to them.

Another possibility that may relate to their purpose (and all of this is just my own speculation for further thought provocation) or explain how they can be "activated", is through the naturally occurring electricity our bodies produce. This may explain some of the detailed interactions described in the following article that covers a man named Marcel Vogel who was performing experiments with Quartz Crystals.
Quartz Crystals : Science or Magic?

I know that EEG devices such as Emotiv EPOC get better results the more a user is able to focus their thoughts onto 1 desired command. The reason that this happens is because we emit stronger electronic signals, the more we focus on 1 thought. This in turn gives the EEG device a stronger reading and hence it performs more accurately.

I look forward to reading more insightful input regarding these speculations.


EDIT - Something I just thought of :

In the article that describes the application of electricity to Quartz it notes that the crystals begin to vibrate.
If you move a magnet into close proximity of an electrical current, it too begins to vibrate. I'm not sure what the connection here is as magnets are not composed of the same substance as Quartz as far as I know. There may be some connection here though if they both experience a similar response when introduced to electromagnetic fields.

reply to post by JaxCavalera

Whilst the Maya were responsible for creating a very accurate method for calculating time and dates. Other ancient civilisations have left subjective proof that they knew of other planets within our solar system

No, they didn't. The Mayans, the Babylonians and the Chinese have left us very detailed records of astronomical observations. None of them record anything but the planets visible to the naked eye.

It's interesting how we haven't been able to locate any "digital" technology or technology that used electricity even though they must have had access to some form of higher level technology than just rock-spears and cave-man like tools. All we ever seem to dig up in our findings are those primitive types of tools.

We can't find any electrical technology because they obviously didn't have it. The Mayans didn't even have the wheel! Just because you can't imagine a world without i-pods doesn't mean it was impossible.

If we were to be hit with a strong CME that took out all of our current technologies, we would be forced to rely on more primitive technology and no doubt all hell would break loose on earth with crime and war etc.. not to mention that you may or may not invoke several nuclear meltdowns or malfunctions of nuclear weapons/storage facilities. The end result being that a lot of our technology would disappear.

The technology would not disappear, it would be in need of repair. Assuming the Doomsday Cultists don't start shooting and blowing things up, society will adapt and things will eventually get fixed.

I am left wondering if perhaps there are some deep buried clues of our ancient history within this old civilisations that could still give us clues as to how they were able to make such fine detailed sculptures and construct such uniform structures ... I wonder why there are no traces of such technology except the remains of objects that are the fruits of their existence.

The Mayans were (and still are) fine craftsmen. All of the buildings, sculpture, pottery, jewelry and manuscripts are the fruits of human skill and labor.

reply to post by DJW001


I have been led to believe that the Ancient Sumerian's knew about planets in our solar system

www.edwardtbabinski.us...


As for them not having any technology that was capable of conducting electricity, I had (at the time of that post) overlooked the Quartz Skulls which sir_slide brought to my attention. I didn't understand the composition of Quartz or it's relationship with the silicon chips we have in computers etc...

So I guess with all of this in mind, perhaps my speculations regarding their knowledge of naturally forming energies and technology that made use of this aren't as wild as I initially thought they were. Tricky to find traces of technology if you aren't exactly sure what it is that you are looking for.

reply to post by JaxCavalera

I have been led to believe that the Ancient Sumerian's knew about planets in our solar system

Yes, as I said, they knew about the five visible planets, but they left no astronomical observations.

As for them not having any technology that was capable of conducting electricity, I had (at the time of that post) overlooked the Quartz Skulls which sir_slide brought to my attention.

No crystal skull has ever actually been found at a Mayan site. You might want to read this:
www.archaeology.org...

reply to post by DJW001


ahaha, well you're actually wrong there mate, they found the mitchell hedges skull at a Mayan site in Guatemala. You should really do your research.

reply to post by DJW001


You seem to be overlooking one piece of logic with the whole "planets visible to the naked eye". How did they know that those were planets and not just brighter stars? They hadn't constructed telescopes back then to allow them to differentiate between a bright star and a planet. I know for myself that if I didn't have the knowledge that some of the bright lights in the night sky are satellites, distant suns and planets etc.. I would assume that they are all just brighter or less bright stars. The only objects in the sky that would be evidently different to the naked eye are the Sun and our Moon.

One theory holds the Aztecs as a more likely candidate to have created them. Skull imagery figures prominently in Aztec art and religious symbols, and not in that of the Mayans. The Aztecs were also more highly skilled in sculpting with crystal. It could be that the skulls found in Mayan ruins are actually displaced Aztec relics... or, as some suspect, this incongruity may indicate that some accounts of the skulls' origins are phony.

Based on this resource, it isn't known where the true origin of some of the skulls found in Mayan ruins is located.

Also taken from the link (bottom of post), there is mention of the carving against the axis of the crystal.

In the link you provided, it seems to neglect mentioning this (unless I somehow skipped a line when reading through it). This is an important element to note as it is the difference between the ability to produce a replica/fake or not.

www.world-mysteries.com...