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The Ancient Maya and their origins

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posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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The fist picture on the OP is actually the Aztec sun stone, NOT the Maya calendar! this is a very common error but I must say a really bad start for someone trying to present factual information.

Regardless I do agree that the Mayas are really interesting. Love their art, I feel its really crazy looking like these incense burners that look like aliens:





and these other carvings:






posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Aluxe
 


Oh come on, very easy to throw stones, I did hundreds of searches for a legitimate Mayan calender and came up with nothing, and after all, it is only an image, it would do you some good to actually read the thread you're commenting on. Appreciate the input, but you're nitpicking.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by Aluxe
 

I really dislike the drive by assassination of topics....

You're actually wrong though, it IS the Mayan calender, do your research kiddo.
edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aluxe
The fist picture on the OP is actually the Aztec sun stone, NOT the Maya calendar! this is a very common error but I must say a really bad start for someone trying to present factual information.




The OP never said that it was the Mayan calender, I presumed that the picture was used because it was a nice start for the thread. I know that it i hard to talk about the Maya, without the subject of the calender coming up, but this thread is intended to be about the origins of the Maya culture, not about the end of the world and predictions. I saw it as a nice touch to use the Sun Stone, it is a work of art in itself.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Qwenn
 


Thanks for backing me up friend. IT isn't the Aztec calender, I think he may be confused, though they are very similar.


edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by Byrd
 


Nice response Byrd, some good points to add. The 26,000 year cycle of time I was referring to is based on the calender not the mythology, the calender represents that period of time.


I understood that. I was interested enough in the culture at one point to begin learning to read the glyphs.


As far as the issue of the start date and your assertion that you cannot speculate backwards I will have to disagree. The Calender is incredibly specific and it seems unlikely that a culture with such accuracy in other areas would be flippant about such an important part of their culture, the calender.


I think we'll agree to disagree here. I feel that as they developed astronomy and assigned important deities to planets (Venus being particularly important) that they began to calculate backwards for a 'start date' when everything "came together." In order to calculate when you will have a certain conjunction you need several things that aren't present in earlier cultures, including writing and mathematics. You can't just "guess" on those cycles. You have to know that there's a cycle for Venus and one for the Moon and one for the Earth. That requires a lot of observations (an observatory) plus written records and the ability to add and subtract (multiplication and division isn't necessary.)

More primitive civilizations usually have a lunar calendar only.


As far as the rise in sea level goes, the majority of the melting of the ice caps ended about 10,000 years ago, so this would have been a time of significant rises in sea levels. The sea level we have today would not be much more than when the last ice age ended, of course it would be bigger, but the dramatic rise in sea levels ended 10,000 years ago.


Actually, the sea levels today are higher than they were at the end of the last ice age... but I stand by my point (based on excavations of hunter camps -- I've talked to the archaeologists who were working on this (one was my professor)) that the increase in sea level was gradual. One other point of evidence about the sea level rise being gradual is that there was no great extinction of sea life at the end of the ice age.

Oceanic life needs a pretty specific set of circumstances for life. A cataclysmic flood -- caused (as speculation goes) by sudden rise in temperature and melting of the ice cap causing the ocean level to suddenly rise 40 feet or more and abruptly drown any civilizations on the coast -- would flood the oceans with so much cold fresh water that we'd have a sudden and massive die off of species. The ocean would eventually mix and stabilize but in the mean time, sea life that can't live in brackish water would simply drop dead -- the same way your salt water aquarium will die off rapidly if you suddenly dilute the salt by adding drinkable water.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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A few comments...


Originally posted by JaxCavalera
I mean, we currently have things like Accelerometers and GPS and Satellites, tho we still don't have all the elements of our solar system mapped out. These ancient civilisations wouldn't of had our Hubble telescope or even ground based telescopes, but somehow were able to map out the difference between planets and normal stars in the night sky, which are things you just can't differentiate between without the use of a telescope or prior knowledge that they aren't just brighter stars etc..?


Actually, we know more about the sky than they did (they never spotted Ceres, Pluto, Sedna, Uranus, etc, etc) -- but it's easy enough to tell the planets (up to Saturn) because they slowly change positions from one constellation to the next. Saturn's orbit is about 30 years, which means that during a lifetime someone could see it go through the entire cycle twice.


If we were to be hit with a strong CME that took out all of our current technologies, we would be forced to rely on more primitive technology and no doubt all hell would break loose on earth with crime and war etc.. not to mention that you may or may not invoke several nuclear meltdowns or malfunctions of nuclear weapons/storage facilities. The end result being that a lot of our technology would disappear.


You underestimate the power of us geeks. Batteries would be just fine, and so would a lot of other technology. Circuit boards wouldn't be harmed. Chips could be re-manufactured (and a lot of us who learned skills back in the day when you had to solder breadboards would be in hot demand.) We wouldn't have lost the materials for making the components, all the factories would still be in place (some electronics would have to be replaced), some copper wire would have to be replaced. But we'd still have the factories and the books and the college educated people and the tools and resources to get back in the business. Look at Japan and the Fukushima reactor -- power plant knocked out, environmental disaster -- and they haven't dropped back to the stone age.


because there is evidence that Earth has previously experienced super volcanoes and large seismic activity both accompanied, no doubt, by devastating tsunami's.

Actually, no. The supervolcanoes (look up Deccan Traps and Siberian Traps) flowed for millions of years and there were not any appreciable tsunamis. The event was more like the Hawaiian volcanoes (which aren't causing tsunamis) only on a very vast scale.


We know that should earth take a direct hit from an intense CME, all electrical devices would fry (similar to the 1859 CME :


But... if you'll note... there were a LOT of places that didn't lose the functionality. Not every electrical system went off the grid and it was quickly back in place. Civilization didn't collapse. People didn't forget how to make electricity or telegraphs or trains.


Perhaps the reason that we can't find any traces of "digital" or "electrical" technology like we have today is because they discovered alternative methods of technology that simply operated in unison with the natural energies that Earth emits.


Sophisticated technologies are built from more primitive ones. Humans didn't just wake up one day and say "I'm tired of banging rocks together. I'm going to make a digital watch." You have to develop electronics, which means you have to develop furnaces, which means you have to mine materials, which means you have to have a large and stable population, which means domesticating plants and animals (they change when you domesticate them), which means societies with special classes, which means a complex theology and laws and so on and so forth.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by sir_slide
 


Sorry man but I know this as a matter of fact. Both the picture on your OP and the last pic you posted are illustrations of the Aztec (or Mexica) sun stone, I have actually seen the original piece a couple of times, its in the anthropology museum in Mexico city and its of Aztec in origin which no real relation to the Maya other than that the mesoamerican link.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

And sorry for pointing this out, I have just seen this soooo many times.. it gets annoying after a while. And no, its not nitpicking, there is a big difference between the Mayas and the Aztecs and the sun stone is very far from any real representation of the Maya Calendar.

a more accurate visual of the Maya calendar would probably look like this:

davidpratt.info...



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Aluxe
 


No drama man. I have realized that its actually really hard to get a proper image of the Mayan calender, it always comes up as Aztec.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


It's good to get your usual debunking. Appreciated and incredibly typical. Thanks though Byrd.


(someone has to do it)
edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Back on topic. It does resemble "Olmec" inscriptions IMHO....

Mayan Calender




Backside of Olmec Stela "C" notice the dots and dashes?

edit on 2-7-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by Byrd
 


Nice response Byrd, some good points to add. The 26,000 year cycle of time I was referring to is based on the calender not the mythology, the calender represents that period of time.


I understood that. I was interested enough in the culture at one point to begin learning to read the glyphs.


As far as the issue of the start date and your assertion that you cannot speculate backwards I will have to disagree. The Calender is incredibly specific and it seems unlikely that a culture with such accuracy in other areas would be flippant about such an important part of their culture, the calender.


I think we'll agree to disagree here. I feel that as they developed astronomy and assigned important deities to planets (Venus being particularly important) that they began to calculate backwards for a 'start date' when everything "came together." In order to calculate when you will have a certain conjunction you need several things that aren't present in earlier cultures, including writing and mathematics. You can't just "guess" on those cycles. You have to know that there's a cycle for Venus and one for the Moon and one for the Earth. That requires a lot of observations (an observatory) plus written records and the ability to add and subtract (multiplication and division isn't necessary.)

More primitive civilizations usually have a lunar calendar only.


As far as the rise in sea level goes, the majority of the melting of the ice caps ended about 10,000 years ago, so this would have been a time of significant rises in sea levels. The sea level we have today would not be much more than when the last ice age ended, of course it would be bigger, but the dramatic rise in sea levels ended 10,000 years ago.


Actually, the sea levels today are higher than they were at the end of the last ice age... but I stand by my point (based on excavations of hunter camps -- I've talked to the archaeologists who were working on this (one was my professor)) that the increase in sea level was gradual. One other point of evidence about the sea level rise being gradual is that there was no great extinction of sea life at the end of the ice age.

Oceanic life needs a pretty specific set of circumstances for life. A cataclysmic flood -- caused (as speculation goes) by sudden rise in temperature and melting of the ice cap causing the ocean level to suddenly rise 40 feet or more and abruptly drown any civilizations on the coast -- would flood the oceans with so much cold fresh water that we'd have a sudden and massive die off of species. The ocean would eventually mix and stabilize but in the mean time, sea life that can't live in brackish water would simply drop dead -- the same way your salt water aquarium will die off rapidly if you suddenly dilute the salt by adding drinkable water.


I do appreciate your voice here, you are incredibly informed as far as these issues go. But your need to attack minor points in argument seem petty, almost trivial. Thanks for being part of it, but your approach is really confrontational.

edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Thank you Slayer! I was very impressed by your contribution, it should have been expected i guess.

Nice new avatar by the way mate.
edit on 2-7-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 



Thanks for bringing this up again Slayer.


Does anybody remember the following image? It caused quite a stir when it was first released. It shows the destruction of a civilization from a tremendous volcanic eruption followed by flooding. Could this depiction and the Olmec ruins be proof of that titanic destruction?




A number of archaeologists believe it’s a fake but there is a story behind its discovery.

Maler took a photo of the frieze in a temple at the ancient Mayan site called Tikal. Maler stated just prior to his death that the recorded scene was but a portion of a continuous frieze which surrounded the interior of an underground chamber. Robert B. Stacy-Judd obtained one of the original photos from Maler.

It was removed and shipped to a museum in Berlin, Germany. Many buildings were destroyed in Berlin during WWII. If the story of the frieze is true then most likely it was destroyed by Allied bombing.

The shrine at Tikal Temple IV housed Lintel 3 which characterized the artwork coming out of the site. Just do a comparison of these two bas-reliefs to see if the one in question is a fake.




posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by lostinspace
 



This is true...

We may never know for sure if it was a fake or real. Here is a higher quality version of the image.





posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I gotta say, I;m loving seeing you on my thread, always thought your contributions were brilliant.



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by sir_slide
 


I have to go to bed, it;s 7am here and im knackered. Really looking forward to debating this with you tomorrow. Cheers guys!!



posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Looks like you may have obtained your data from the following link as it describes a similar method used by the ancient Sumerians to map out some of the planets or "Wandering Stars" as they referred to them.

Ancient Civilisation Solar System
 


I know that this is mainly referencing to the Sumerians which aren't the central core of this topic so I would prefer to skip by this being as brief as I can. I obtained my own source of information on ancient solar system comprehension from the following link : www.uhcg.org... It has a different take on things, including the mention of findings of ground-glass that may have been used to fashion a telescopic-like lens etc..

Again, unless a culture knew that these wandering stars were in fact planets, they would not have to reference them as anything more than odd stars that shifted position, but it would seem that some of these ancient civilisations understood that they were more than just wandering stars depending on the source of information you prefer to use.

 


I'm not so sure that things like batteries and the factories that produce these components would still be ok. The way I see it, anything that uses a computer chip, would cease to function due to an overload. If you try to pump more power into a battery than it is designed to carry, it's not going to handle that well, depending on the make of the battery as to the results of doing that. But sure you would still have good old diesel and bio-diesel power generators and the like that would work just fine after the EMF's settled down again.. but given that anything using computer chips would not be working, there wouldn't be a lot of things left to use that power on...

Long story short is that it would take us somewhere in the vicinity of 3 months (at best) right up to 1 year (I have read 3 years but that to me seems far too long as a time frame to get things up and running again in my opinion). I was also speculating that, should we experience large scale seismic activity, there would be no long distance methods of effectively warning nearby continents of a possible tsunami etc.

I'd be surprised to find that the shock wave from a Super Volcano erupting wouldn't initiate a tsunami (especially if it were the one located in the ocean just near New Zealand).

 




Sophisticated technologies are built from more primitive ones. Humans didn't just wake up one day and say "I'm tired of banging rocks together. I'm going to make a digital watch." You have to develop electronics, which means you have to develop furnaces, which means you have to mine materials, which means you have to have a large and stable population, which means domesticating plants and animals (they change when you domesticate them), which means societies with special classes, which means a complex theology and laws and so on and so forth.


I can't help but find this a touch insulting as these logical steps are more than obvious. I wasn't trying to propose some childish theory that they just woke up and decided they would make a digital watch or a bright new 3D TV? Perhaps it's just a misinterpretation of my post that led you to assume that I had taken such a simplistic and thoughtless approach on the subject.

I was more speculating down the thought channel that they may have found alternative ways to tap into our natural resources and available energies. The concept I was getting at is that they may have had all the above mentioned steps required to reach higher technological levels, which would be more than we give them credit for because they may have done so through unconventional methods. And if that were the case, there wouldn't be any immediately recognisable proof that such levels of technology existed as the only logical method to analyse their "known" technological achievements is to compare them to our own and thus we would evaluate the differences based upon our own conventional approaches to technology.
 


I do appreciate the feedback regarding my previous post, and hope that there will be less misinterpretation of my intended channel of thought in my future posts. I do try to make these intended readings as clear as possible, but over the years have had a lot of people express their frustrations with my writing style at times.

 


A few more images relating to the Maya Calendar Some of this information is clearly not guaranteed facts but it may provide more insight and discussion points on various elements of their culture.

I'm most interested in the Pyramid structure at the moment, as I have been reading up on some documentation that draws connections between the work that Nikola Tesla was performing and the Pyramids supposed "real" purposes for wireless power. At the very worst it's turning out to be an interesting story to read up on and at the best there may be something in it but I don't know about that just yet.








posted on Jul, 2 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Something that really fascinates me about the Mayas and other ancient cultures is how they built their cities so they are aligned with the stars, I mean it just takes their architecture to a whole new level. I mean today we have amazing skyscrappers but with no connection to the stars.

Like for example, the famous Kukulkan pyramid in Chichen Itza (also known as el castillo) is like a calendar itself, with each of the 4 stairways having 91 steps which along with the top platform totals 365 steps for each day of the year but what I find amazing is that on the equinoxes there is a visual effect where the head of the feathered serpent Kukulcán, which is carved into the foot of the main staircase, is joined to the carved tails at the top of the building by an undulating shadow resembling a snake's body. Pretty amazing I think

here is a picture of this:

www.world-mysteries.com...


edit on 3-7-2011 by Aluxe because: I added a picture



posted on Jul, 3 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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Whooooo................There is an Equinox in September !

Better grab a hardhat !



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