(New title:) How are people manipulated by psychopaths?

I got involved with one of these people. They are great actors. They mimic peoples emotions and responses. He is an emotional vampire.A human without a soul. A player.He would tell me any thing I needed/wanted to hear to suck me in. He continued to feed me his alphabet soup as long as he got what he wanted from me. He would use the words "I love you" but those words mean nothing to him. He was not capable of anything deep or meaningful.

He lies easily and with out guilt. The truth is he was not interested in anyone but himself. Unable to be faithful, yet accuses the partner of doing exactly what it is they are doing-cheating. He's shallow, a liar and incapable of true feelings for anyones but his own. He strung me along. He took all he could, physically and emotionally.yet never able give anything in return, except for heartache. When he hurt me, it never phased him at all, When he walked away, there were others lined up for use. Since ice runs through his veins, and he has no heart, any pain he causes anyone will mean nothing to him.

People are just an objects to them, not a person with any feelings or heart- you really meant nothing to these people. They are lying, deceiving, players and would love the chance to suck you in..... then spit you out. Yet, they will usually come back for more. Especially, if you are the forgiving kind who really loved this person. They need someone/anyone to adore them. And when you finally realize, there is an empty void inside this person that you love, and that you thought loved you back, it hits you like a ton of bricks. How could you have been fooled? There were so many times that red flags were there, and he talks you out of knowing your own gut feeling. The sweet talking, the words, the manipulation is amazing.

The older they get, the more they learn by watching others, and especially movies. He loved to watch movies, to learn to mimic emotions, or even facial expressions. He used words out of novels that he read. Hardly any words were his own (I learned that down the road).

I know there were times he would say he was sad. But looking at him, he never showed he was sad. He could never shed a tear. He would say he was hurt, but you could never see it in his eyes. There is such an emotional void inside, once you are aware it exists, you can almost see it.

Editing to say: Always remember the old saying "Actions speak louder than words"...these people are GREAT with words-its there actions (or lack of) that don't line up.

One major problem with mental health people is that they treat the mind in isolation from society.

Simple example most ATSers can relate to: Suppose you are mad about the government, or the economy, or something in society, Something abstract not directly related to your daily life in the way food and shelter are, but something you care about passionately. This makes you "upset." So you go to a metal doctor to try to find some relief. The doctor tells you the problem is not really society, its you or your childhood or your neurotransmitters, etc. Please proceede to the blue window for your meds, thank you come again after teh bliss wears off.

Until psychiatry/psychology develops some sort of "interface" with society (rather than locating everything in the individual), it will remain a deeply flawed endevor. This will become more and more apparant as society declines further. But I don't hold out too much hope for the mental health industry. It's simply easier, more familiar, and more accepted by TPTB to not rock the boat and just do things the normal way.

I think there is legitimate concern about psychopathy and sociopathy, but I also think the words get tossed around a bit too much.

I don't think sociopaths can be understood until it is recognized that the term "sociopath" was invented by psychiatrists/ psychologists to try to label and control society in a way that was in line with the extreme conservative stance of the psychiatric / psychological institution. It's all about the medicalization of society, which can't really reasonably be "medicalized", since society is not a biological organism, and therefore does not have health or sickness. It's all about social control and power. I could easily make up a mental illness too that declares that all psychologists and psychiatrists are "mentally ill" and need "treatment" if they are to "function" within a "healthy society". Then I could force these "mentally ill" individuals to take brainwashing medications until they agreed that they are "mentally ill" and need "treatment". However, I did not have the power to do this because I do not have a huge organization with the power to make my "social health" initiative a reality. I really hope people start waking up to the evils of psychiatry and psychology before the institutions they support get too much power to be stopped.

reply to post by wildtimes


"If anyone has read the books by profilers of serial killers or their ilk, and studied the profiling field itself, you might have been exposed to the concept of how HARD it is to NOT become a victim to these very skilled con-artists."

Indeed, our psychopath friends do have endearing qualities.

having been on Earth many years I too have seen them come and go. depending upon ones own experience / observation, reflection, wants and needs, we are at differing levels of danger. little things can mean so much, like learning to listen to gut instinct. and having someone in your life point out how important gut instinct and awareness is.

my Nephew is one of the most well read and intelligent people I know. he once told me he felt that if the leaders of America were given psychological examinations most of them would be found unfit to hold their posts. after much thought, I concur. actions speak louder than words.

I've realized many things make sense if one is willing to realize mankind is insane. Some hide it more well than others. Some cope better than others. some people live in hell every day, in severe madness. life can be so unkind. It is only man judging man, arriving at agreed upon conclusions of what is and what is not acceptable or suitable. Noting similarities of characteristics and placing them into categorizations for the purpose of convenience. Like so many sciences, as advanced as we are, we've only barely begun to scratch the surface.

I have spent time in lock-down psychiatric wards as an end-user of the mental health care system several times. Comparing those people I met and lived amongst to how people behave & treat each other on the Internet, I'd take the broken people any day.

Several Doctors have told me approximately 1 in 100 people are a psychopath. Reminds me of a lyric from an old Jackson Browne song: "..people walking down the street like they're safe or something..". Psychopaths and other people with labels of mental illness are all around you most every day, unless you barely come into contact with population.

Most of these people pose no physical threat; popular TV shows like "Law & Order" blow things way out of proportion. On behalf of people who cope with bi-polar life every day I'd personally like to bitch-slap that shows writing staff. Not a week goes by when the L&O franchise doesn't have a bi-polar off their meds and rippin' up the town. Idiots spreading untruths, not good.

As for psychopath manipulation, well, we are all manipulators, salesmen, most every day. Choosing what movie to go see among your group of friends, it is she who sells her point of view, who sells herself, the most well that sways the group to their decision. and so it goes. Some are more charming than others, some are more transparent and accordingly may be unliked, because we can 'see through them'.

The unique part of the psychopath, from what I'm told, is how they are 'wired' differently from many others. Unable to empathize or sympathize they are like a human version of a shark. Does this mean they are graced with superior cunning, intellect or charm? Able to sweep women off their feet and fit in oh-so-nicely with the crowd? No. No it doesn't. The psychopath I knew in my childhood is not welcome in my home or my presence in adulthood. He was the child of parents whom my parents were friends with. He lived in the neighborhood so he was part of that life, so long ago. I and others my age were there by circumstance beyond our control.

'they' are much like everyone else who wants and desires. ultimately we are responsible for our own actions. everything we do or say etcetera. sorry to simplify but i think if one has been manipulated by a psychopath it is because they have voluntarily placed their self in that circumstance. there are exceptions, as when one is a victim who is being held or restrained against their will. another exception is a dictatorship led by a psychopath who wields enforcement against a people.

we live and hopefully we learn. at the end of the day what matters is how you respond when the lightbulb finally goes on and you realize you are in an unhealthy relationship.

what you do in future contact with a person having psychopathic traits will reveal if you have learned and grown as well as will reveal if you have a propensity to give your will over to a force, for whatever reason that may be.

Thank you for letting me share my two cents.

Originally posted by Schkeptick
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

Do you want to elaborate? With at least one psychologist and possibly a couple of like-minded (socio- or psychopathic individuals) reading right now, you might get some really great advice.

Well He manipulated me into having kids (I didn't ever want) let me elaborate on this I love my kids, but I was very responsible and have never been keen on being tied down with kids by anyone,I took the pill but he refused to pay for it as I had lost my job, I had no health coverage because my mom dropped the insurance when I left home, he would not use a condom because "he didn't like the way it felt" he then didn't let me heal from the first time before forcing sex on me and then well you know how easy it is to get pregnant following immediately after having a baby; cheated constantly then blamed me for his cheating; threatened suicide when I tried to leave; demands my loyalty but I know he still cheats and he is EXTREMELY secretive, for instance I was using his laptop one night for schoolwork, I had to go into history to go back to my classes online as he wouldn't let me save it to favorites and then he accused me of SNOOPING AND totally Flipped the "F" out don't know how else to put it, completly berzerko man!!!! And he's hit me, but I am military and I FIGHT BACK and he found out fast, manipulates me, uses my kids as leverage though he's got two others from another woman that he never used against her but then he says she cheated on him (oh playing the victim much?) YEAH! Puts me down so I think no one else will want me,but, IMO IDGAF at this point if anybody else does want me because I really want nothing to do with anybody else either now... Sounds like he's a sociopath to me. There's tons more like calling me crackhead and blaming all the misfortunes on me (though he's the one not paying CS for his other 2 kids) that is what usually left us in the financial ruins... so well that's all I can think of now.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet as I don't have time to read the entire thread, but.....

Wouldn't being sociopathic or psychopathic be Evolutionarily beneficial as during the course of our creation through evolution those that possessed these traits would have been more capable of survival for several different reasons. Reasons that all seem to be symptoms of this "disease".

This would be my guess as to why these behaviors are so prevalent in our society.

reply to post by summer5


Summer, it sounds like the guy I am with now, still in a relationship with. Almost to a "T". Maybe it's the same man. I think that this is all men I certainly never met a man who didnt fit this description honestly.

I've been accused of being a psychopath or a sociopath on this board before, and several memorable times in real life. Mostly because people have disliked my attitude when I reported from several dangerous situations around the world. It is always a perplexing and hard-to-understand accusation for me. I feel I am fairly introspective and sensitive to psychological nuances. I understand I have a pretty chaotic relationship with multiple women and have been a bit more promiscuious than most men perhaps, but I have never raised my hand against a woman in my life.

I understand my job (basically, these days, commodity speculation in war-torn/crisis areas) is morally repugnant to many, and I understand it has put me in situations that are perhaps unusual and hard to communicate that have probably deformed my personality in some way or other.

I was diagnosed with PTSD after an experience last decade in the Sri Lanka Civil war, although I never underwent formal treatment. I think I've been a bit diffiucult since then; I prefer to spend most of my time alone and on the net, which I know my family dislikes. I have a very twisted sense of humor (that I try and usually succeed) in keeping under wraps here, and I know it unnerves people. But I think combat soldiers and others who have been in difficult situations can understand this attitude. It is alway "normal" people I end up horrifying in some way. Thse are my rough edges. Buyt do they make me sick? I've tried so very hard to overcome my akwardness, to learn to write and communicate properly. Am I communicating?

I guess what bothers me the most is the either/or aspect of these accusations. If you are accused of falling into one of these categories, its all or nothing, and there is "no cure." You are "recognized" as a flawed individual on some fundamental level and shunned. Psychpathy/sociopathy is viewed as "incurable" and fundamental, and it is said that the only "cure" is to isolate or abandon the accused. Is this true? Is this fair? What happens to people falsely accused? Or people who might share some but not all aspects of psychopathy? What is their redress? How can they prove their fitness and validity as humans?

reply to post by wildtimes


Labelling someone is a convenient shoe-boxing method. Promotes the illusion of security in an unstable and unpredictable world. Also a great way of establishing control.

Achilles, Alexander the Great, Attila, Jesus of Nazareth, the Prophet Mohammed, Genghis Khan, Casanova, Nietzsche, Mao, Sartre, Machiavelli, Truman, the Pope, etc. All psychopaths, I presume?

I suppose cats and wolves and other predators which stalk their prey are "psychopaths", too, then.

Funny how most people will tell you stories of all the "psychopaths" they've encountered in their lifetime. What foolishness. You might have been taken advantage of by some douchebag but that's about it, sweetheart. Most of your experiences hardly qualify.

Demonizing greatness by the slave-culture mediocrity, afraid of what they don't understand.

reply to post by wildtimes





If you want a study in psychopaths and how they manipulate people, there is a thread on

this site 'Alleged NASA Affiliated astronomer deciphers "intelligence " signal from nearby

stars' 200 + pages on just that.

It concerns an 'astronomer' and 'Dr' with NO qualifactions and an 'author' with pareidolia

who have been conning and manipulating for over 25 years

It is a very long read but just the sort of case you are asking about. An easier read is an

e.book one of the posters on the site wrote about it (an exclusive e.book for ATS visitors)

titled "The Hoax Heard Round the World"

I wonder why all the examples mentioned here are men. I also note the vitriol from the victims. These are definitely tied.

I don't think there are more male psychopaths than women. I realise that men are more sexually aggressive and forceful, but they are no less manipulative.

I did a quick search on google and I saw the same trend. There was only one story from a guy and he was canned.

I find myself in the position of a victim here. I think that I have been softened up to will myself into the victim role. In a way I'm a sociopath. I can see how I project blame onto others. The thing is, I'm open and honest and I try hard to avoid being divisive. My natural bent is harmonious but I have trouble with love and emotions. I don't cry and while I'm not into manipulating others I lack the necessary trust to open up properly.

In the same light, me accusing another of being sociopathic is problematical. This represents an easy avenue to avoid my personal responsibility. I've become divisive in protecting myself weather I like it or not...

Unlike most comments, I tend to be too trusting.

The hardest part to get over is wanting something that has nothing to give. You feel at a loss but you pursue a hope for a fair outcome when you know it will never happen, so the feeling of inequality impacts your emotions add the hopelessness and you might you look inwards with false hopes. You want to taste the potential and fulfil your desires but in the end the desire is hollow. There's nothing left.

Actually I don't want to look upon it as a negative. The onus is on me to make things right - if not only in my own mind.

Too bad about the bad marriages. You enter marriage at a huge personal cost if you're in love.

Three years with an NPD (Narcissitic Personality Disorder). Have spotted many others since then.

I am somewhat of an empath. They.. on the other hand have no empathy or compassion. It's like two polar opposites which attract.

My conclusion, bottom line and I'm not religious....(although spiritual) is they were born without a "Soul". Whatever there purpose is here on earth, they are not here to pay their Karmic obligations as most souls are.

I know it is a little out there, but it makes sense to me.

Originally posted by blazenresearcher

My conclusion, bottom line and I'm not religious....(although spiritual) is they were born without a "Soul". Whatever there purpose is here on earth, they are not here to pay their Karmic obligations as most souls are.

I like this theory for some reason.

I don't buy into the "empath" stuff, it just doesn't make sense to me. But this idea sounds like it might be on the right track.

reply to post by The Old American

...I try to keep him in line

Mmm...yep, and possibly he occasionally seems to agree and admit to his mistakes, I bet, right? Those are the really, really skilled ones, who can "put on" insight and sympathy, even emit tears and utter statements of remorse and "I'm not worthy" ... but in fact, they are only playing the strings, pushing the buttons. They can turn it on or off at will.

I was at one time a staffer in a classroom for high school students whose "unruly" behavior had prompted the admin/teachers to pull them out of mainstream classes. I have seen an amazing ability to "switch off" the tantrum for any number of reasons: the "quiet room" was occupied, the "offending staffer" was not in the room, etc.

Trouble was, these youngsters were -- in my eyes -- "vulnerable, hurt, needy, misunderstood" etc. And I was lulled into thinking they "liked" me, and "trusted" me, above all others. It took years afterward, and dozens of occasions with similar individuals, to finally get it.

One can SEEM to be having an effect at "keeping them in line." In my experience, that is a way they have of stringing along their "tools." But ....

BUT...
Very little is really known about the constellation of behaviors in which individuals engage that leads to the general "assessment" of them as outside healthy parameters of social skills. That, to me, is why it's so fascinating.

Sorry I'm late to the conversation - I don't want to reply to everyone because a lot of it went off topic - but in the area of psycho/sociopathology I did want to respond to a few names brought up throughout the thread - since its a particular interest of mine

Jeffrey dahmer was not a sociopath - he actually was never diagnosed with any illness, but mostly exhibited obsessive compulsive behaviors - he loved every person he ever killed - so much so that he wanted to keep them with him forever - thats why he ate them.

Manson was definitely a sociopath - no question - no doubt - no remorse to this very day.

Hitler had sociopathic tendencies but was mostly mentally ill from advanced syphillis - at least at the end - I guess that still makes him a sociopath... but I don't believe he was necessarily born with the tendency - I think it developed over time through injury, illness, and bad influence.

Stalkers are not sociopaths - they tend to be more obsessive compulsive

If you ask me, Ted Bundy was the ultimate sociopath - not only didn't he care about who he killed, but he didn't even care that he was caught - he only escaped prison so he could continue killing - while he gave many excuses/reasons for his actions - the plain truth was he enjoyed killing women, especially the ones that reminded him of a time where he still had minor feelings - and he "knew" that he was superior to everyone else


In regards to women - Lavinia Fisher was probably a sociopath - she killed many men and included her husband in the plot - but I'm pretty sure she only kept the husband around to help out out in the killings - unfortunately the case is from 1793, so its hard to say for sure if she had a real emotional attachment with him.

Almost 200 years later in 1988, Barbara Stager shot her husband "accidentally" in bed. Later they found out her first husband was "accidentally" shot to death as well. She did it for the money.

And there are many others. Some think there are more women sociopaths than there are men. Women tend to get away with it more often though, because they look good in a dress, and know how to cry on cue.

You are in the psych business. Were you trained on the Hare Checklist?

(hit reply too soon)

Now to address the why? I think its more on a case by case basis. But it has both to do with the disorder of the sociopath, as well as the disorders found in everday ordinary people.

Like someone else said in the thread (not sure who, my apologies) - these are just labels.

In my study of mental illness I've come to the conclusion that every symptom described for nearly every illness, everyone experiences at some time or another. They don't become a problem until they become imbalanced, either through influence, illness, substance abuse, and many other factors (or one of many).

reply to post by wildtimes


Don't let the existence of psychopaths make you paranoid. It's estimated the make up 1 percent or less of the population. Also there are people who can just appear to have a complete lack of empathy.. doesn't mean they do. There are varying degrees.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

I agree, no sense in stressing.
Not all sociopaths are inclined to murder either. I know one, I've known him all my life, I can't stand him - but as far as I know he's never killed anyone.
Hey I could be wrong though! maybe he did....